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Thank you, Maincoons for your posts # 43, 44 and 48. They are well written, respectful and, in my opinion, right on.

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I could almost understand this if the pitch was being made to Tapatios. As Spencer has stated, the desire for this kind of living is there.....although probably not on this scale. Baby boomers?? Not a prayer. There is still an anti-Mexico feeling among many that is constantly being fueled by the media. The more affluent (which seems to be what Mexico wants) will not settle for a concrete high density tower overlooking a pond when they can live in the same air conditioned environment overlooking the ocean.

We have friends who used to live in the general area above Monte Carlo. One night we were sitting on the patio and heard a crash. A palm tree came sliding down the hill and into a wall. They said slides frequently happen up there and showed us huge cracks in all the walls. They have since moved.

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This maybe a "pie in the sky" project..However who would have thought that all those (albeit cheaper) cracker boxes in El Chante would

1. Been allowed. 2. sold out quite quickly.

Maybe , God forbid, there is a world wide market for this project....but " Not In My Backyard"

I guess a new car plant would be more acceptable and bring better paying jobs to the area

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Oh, golly day and possibly poop shit to boot! we are expat residents and hear us roar; we have not lost our voice.

Deleted by poster.

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Sun Cities are very popular in US so who knows Lake City could be as well. I doubt though that it will succeed here. With the "moroso' mentality in Mexico, developments like this (even if built) deteriorate very quickly. Affluent aging north Americans would probably like this type of development. They are not as mobile...they do not like to drive and Mexicans are much more compassionate and take good care of their elders. The style and scale would have to be scaled down. The younger affluent people from NOB will not have desire to come (there is not enough to support their lifestyle)...but there is an appetite for good healthcare and care in general for elders(their parents). It will also (most likely) attract a bad element who will want to feed on vulnerability of these people. Middle class Canadians come mainly for good weather , escape their long winters so there will be no interest from them to live in high-rise.

So stay tuned :-).

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Mainecoons, that little shindig on Monday was a sales event aimed at gringos, not a public consultation for approval. How would you know if they haven't planned one for the local Spanish speaking community or in Guadalajara?

If they have the permits, as they claim, then they have already satisfied the local and state requirements for such a project. And I will wager that not one person on this board knows exactly what that requires and the procedures followed. So no one on this board really knows how many locals were involved in the decision to allow the project to be built. But at the very least the cabildo in Chapala, along with obras publicas and the municipal presidente, were involved. If an environmental impact statement was required then that involved the federal gov. had some say. And I imagine that on the state level, Desarollo Urbano had some say in the matter.

As far as their website, the older home that you wrongly labeled as one of their projects is in actuality their offices. If you click on the Univercity project link, the buildings shown do exist and are but a block or so from their offices. They are right off of Chapultepec and Niños Heroes in Guadalajara. Those buildings were built amid much controversy by a Spanish developer. Whether it was this particular group, anyone knows.

Well Stu, I can assure you that both Harry and Spencer do know the process quite well. And they also know how things really work with our less than honest and exemplary local government.

If they have all these permits, where is the proof? If you have it, please share it with us. Otherwise some of us are going to remain quite skeptical of those claims.

I didn't wrongly label anything. They listed it as one of their three projects. Read the text. The university project is a separate one of the three tabs.

These people haven't done anything on this scale. If I understand your post correctly, the one thing that might have actually been built was done by a Spanish developer and didn't go so hot. Does this constitute a track record for you?

Sorry, not for me.

I've been involved with projects of this size as a civil activist in Silver Spring, MD. When you get to this level, the presentation is far more sophisticated and detailed than what we have seen thus far. The literature and models and the web site itself shout amateur hour.

BTW, if there is in fact any presentation being made to the Mexican community no doubt either you or Lisa will be glad to share the details, time and date and agenda, with us. I know more than a few Mexicans who would definitely want to attend that.

So Stu, are you a local resident or another outsider who knows what is good for us? Just curious.

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This entire discussion is not helpful at all and should be locked. It has become nothing more then thinly veiled name calling. Have your personal disputes elsewhere please. Thanks.

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Building where they propose would upset a whole buncha people who already have houses up there. From the scale of their proposal, all those properties would have to be purchased. And it would only take one holdout to put the whole thing to bed.

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...She states that feasibility studies have been done by the U. of Guadalajara, and that the Chapala government was interested in this type of facility - not simply "assisted living" , but a massive (more than 2000 units) condo complex with 420 townhouses situated above the 5 towers. And, while they are at it, why not add underground parking, a golf course, a shopping mall, a casino, a convention center, etc.????"

Since the info about this major boondoggle came from Lisa Jorgensen's subscription-only newsletter, details are still lacking for most of you. Obviously the Dog And Pony Show did not address many real issues.

I tried my best to paraphrase the important parts. I was NOT being facetious about the above statement. That was actually in her article, which demonstrates a plan MUCH larger than simply gringo assisted living! Some of you still might not understand the untrammeled grandiosity of this Lake City plan, and how totally disastrous it would be on all fronts. That's not rocket science!

Dale Hoyt Palfrey, where are you when we need you?? We all need much more clear, objective information about this issue!

And about the supposed hoards of gringos descending upon this area...may I say it out loud...? The gringo business here is way down from its peak several years ago. The local economic indicators would be the very slow housing market, vacant rentals, often almost empty restaurants, struggling shops with many closing or gone, and, sadly, a greatly diminished art scene with very little reception attendance even with some of Ajijic's most noted artists. Those art receptions used to be packed!. Some major art talent has left this area - and I miss them!

The Great Economic Meltdown of 2008 made it much harder for people in the US to sell their houses, especially at a decent price, which was necessary in order for them to buy houses here and live on SS.

I've seen several articles in major media online publications regarding "retiring overseas." Several in a row did not even mention Mexico as a desirable place to retire to like several other Latin American countries. The perception lingers that Mexico is full of violence everywhere, every day, and you just can't change the minds of people that believe this. And there actually was a spate of violence here a few years ago, and some people just never came back, it seems.

So, hyping this Lake City project as assisted living for gringos is not quite honest - but we've already seen plenty evidence of what a shoddy operation this "corporation" is. If you didn't read the Pre-meeting thread, go back and check it out. Smart investors don't sink money into pie in the sky operations. The whole thing is so ludicrous that I still think it could very well be a drug money laundering scheme.

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You sound quite antagonistic. Isn't that frowned upon on this forum?

I didn't claim the buildings in GDL were built by this group.The buildings in GDL that I mentioned were built by a Spanish developer and I clearly stated that I did not know if it was Grupo Naimar or someone else. I am not sure what you mean by "didn't go so hot". There was controversy over zoning restrictions but the buildings were completed and, as I pass by them often, look like they are doing well occupancy wise.

As far as permits and proof of their existence, a simple trip to Obras Publicas would remove any doubt. Part of the requirements for receiving a permit for a project such as this is publishing a copy of the "plan parcial" that has been approved by both the State of Jalisco Secretary of Urban Development (Desarollo Urbano) and the local ayuntamiento, published in local newspapers, the official publication "El Esatdo de Jalisco" and posted at city hall for a period of 15 working days. The "plan parcial" would deal with all facets of the development, including water, sewage, electric feasibilty studies, traffic and a number of other items. Population density would have been addressed.

You may well have been involved in large scale projects NOB. But that has nothing to do with Mexico. I have developed hectares of farmland into housing which included everything I mentioned above and more. Including getting land use changes. So I really don't think you or anyone else can school me on this subject.

No Stu, not antagonistic, just skeptical.

You didn't answer my question as to whether you live here or not. Do you?

You have 7 total posts on this board. You started out your participation here by calling those other members who are questioning this project "arrogant SOBs." I'd say that was pretty antagonistic.

I'm just curious as to where you're really coming from, where you live and who you represent.

And I would appreciate you addressing the questions I raised. For example, if one of the three projects on their web site may not have even been developed by them, just what track record do they have? The text of the description cites very recent dates and calls the project a concept.

I'm surprised you seem to know a lot about it but can't confirm for us who developed it.

As to the level of sophistication, we've seen far better from far smaller proposals by local Mexican developers. Heck, just contrast the quality of the artist's rendition of the new Riberas hospital with what this bunch has produced.

Their rendition is so amateurish it really doesn't pass my personal smell test, sorry about that.

Do you really think that the people here like Hector, Harry and/or Spencer who are involved with the Chapala government on a daily basis would have missed all those things you claim to exist if in fact they do?

Anyway, I'd say you've given a good "to do" list to a real reporter to find out exactly what has been approved and by whom. Thanks.

Harry I'd be happy to accompany you on a visit to Chapala to find out if any of this is real and they actually approved this beast on the QT. PM me.

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Give it up, by the time this project is finalized and built most of us will be dead.

They thought of that! By the time investors see any return they will require the cremation and internment of the ashes service, for which the company offers a handy prepayment package. If Stu sees a lot of "occupancy" in this building - then someone better call Ghostbusters. If it is true that this is also where their office is - well that is just plain creepy!

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OK I checked the definitive guide to Lake Chapala, Living at Lake Chapala by Judy King. The land in question, across from Monte Carlo, lies along a well know fault line. I would direct you to pages 177-179. These was no feasibility study done or it would have mentioned the well known (by locals and long time residents) problems all through that area. I believe it is called due diligence when it comes to reporting Lisa

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Dale Palfrey was at the meeting and I assume that we can all look forward to an article soon. Today I asked a Chapala friend if this project was being advertised to the Mexican community and he said it was. It will all come out just have a little patience. It is the next Chapala government that will decide this project. The current one has already gotten all they can from these promoters and are just waiting to get out the door .

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Tried to find more information online, but their website has been offline for many days, generating what's called a 404 error (page not found). Also, the domain name lakecity.mx has been registered with Whois privacy, so you cannot see information about the owner of the domain name by looking up it's Whois record.

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All of these postings have their views and have been interesting, But I still know very little about this proposed project(?).

And, I suspect that I am among many. I have lived in Mexico 15 years and have heard and witnessed similar. This one seems to be much grander. The one thing that I have learned is that "Outsiders living here" can only make a lot of noise, and eventually that decreases. I came here because of the climate, culture, and to experience something different. These reasons have been met, and I have come to believe that the there is going to be change. Change that I have no right to try to stop or enhance.

I still regard myself as a guest, even though I have Wife and property. So, I will just "buy a ticket and watch the game"

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So oldifeliz if your neighbor decides to raise goats next store to you it´s live and let live? I have children and grandchildren living here so I have some pretty strong interests in what happens. Parts of my family have lied in Mexico for 38 years, many of our friends are Mexican s and I´d like to see their beautiful area,m stay beautiful

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There is no way that you could get me to build a tower in this caldera. The "soil" here is not soil at all, it is volcanic ash blowout.

It is a mixture of sand, volcanic ash, rocks and gravel. I have no idea where there is actually undisturbed soil but it would require some great pilings to stabilize something like that.

There are hot springs on both ends of the lake which tells me that although the volcano that formed the lake is quiet, Mother Nature has just turned down the heat, not put out the flame.

One good shake and there is going to be a lot of damage here. Putting that on a known fault line is not smart.

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I had no trouble getting it via google.http://gruponaimar.com/

No, he's referring to the "whois" database that lists the owner of the website, as registered by icann. Whois Privacy blocks that information. Often used to keep people from finding out your email addresses and spamming you, but also often used to hide who you are from anyone doing research. I did find naimar.com as a registration in 1998, expires May this year, but that could be them or anybody.

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Oh, sigh, we are all getting very excited. Well, that is good! In my view, if we expats can prevent this project from happening, and preserve the integrity of the villages along the north shore, that is great. Sometimes expat voices matter!!! I am sad to note that sometimes expat voices matter more than local voices; this is NOT as it should be, but we expats tend to be confrontational and, in this case, I think that is needed.

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Just remember Perry March so when INM comes calling make sure your bags are packed. His was a heinous crime but I suspect Mexico will not make the same mistake they made back when they enticed the Tejanos to move into northern Mexico and then they started "demanding" things. Just an observation, not attacking anyone's right to dissent.

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Before anyone asks, yes I live Lakeside and do business in Guadalajara and I am totally neutral on the Lake City project.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is great to have a board like this to express said opinion, I don't quiet understand the negative and at times rude tone with respect to this and other developments in the area.

The reality is, it takes visionaries to bring new and unproven ideas to life.

I see complaints about Walmart, yet the community is shopping there. I see complaints about Centro Laguna, yet many times on my way home from Guadalajara I see the parking lot almost full. etc etc etc

The developer obviously thinks it's a viable project and I'd imagine would do this in stages to gage the success of the development.

One overriding thought that keeps coming to mind, is that this and other developments create job opportunities, a rare commodity lakeside, and I assume that 100% of these opportunities, except the sale of real estate, will be taken advantage off by the segment of the population that need it most.

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I received a warning for calling you arrogant SOBs. Apparently you, being a mod and all, can be very sarcastic and antagonistic at your pleasure.

I didn't claim anything exists. I simply explained part of what is required to get a permit to develop real estate here in Jalisco. If they have the permits they claim then they will have executed all of the things I mentioned and more. Harry doesn't know squat. I doubt Spencer does either. Or you would already have had your answer to as whether the permits were issued.

But if it is so important to you, why not just stroll on over to city hall and ask to see the permit? I could care less if the project is built or not. I could care less if the company is legit or not. And while you are there why don't you tell the presidente municipal how corrupt you feel his administration is? I am sure he would love to hear your criticisms that you post so frequently on this forum, you being a citizen and all.

Yes you did and rest assured the people who live here will be looking for those items you spelled out. And I thanked you for that list. I expect we'll all know very shortly just what has really been approved and what has not. And you can bet that some of the locals who do know "squat" will be finding out if any approvals handed out have been done so legally and with the required disclosure.

Along those lines, I've gotten disclosure letters from the Chapala government about nearby projects that could affect our property. However a good friend of mine who lives literally on top of this proposal hasn't heard anything at all.

For those of us who live here, and it is pretty clear at this point that you do not since you've repeatedly dodged the question, we know just how bad the Chapala government is. And so do they. Harry and Hector have stood up to them and fought for us for some years now. Harry in particular does not mince words about them on this thread or this board but somehow you're only bent out of shape about what I have to say about them. Interesting....

I'll take Harry and Spencer knowing "squat" over your squat any day. :)

If you think I'm critical of them you haven't a clue what the local Mexican community, at least the part that I interact with, has to say about them. Maybe you should visit us and learn about this first hand.

If you do, you'll find I'm being kind.

So you don't care whether it is built or not and you apparent don't live here. OK. Now if I could just figure out why you're here at all.... But if you wish to remain, please follow the rules about singling out moderation for complaint on public threads. Thanks.

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