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Attended their meeting

Issues:

Water - they say it is taken care of. BUT, we KNOW there are already shortages in the area

Sewage - they say it is taken care of. BUT we KNOW raw sewage is now dumped in the lake because there are not adequate facilities.

Geology - they say it is taken care of. BUT, we KNOW that there have been several landslides from their property (across from Monte Carlo Hotel). The most recent one cutting off the highway and keeping half of it closed for several weeks.

Traffic - they say Chapala will take care of it. We KNOW Chapala only takes care of Chapala.

Permits - they say they have all permits. WE KNOW the Chapala administration changes in September and they will have to start all over again.I believe that i remember correctly 200 houses, 700 condos, and 2000 apartments of 1-3 bedrooms

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I was told by someone who attended the location was basically above the newly refurbished strip park that is on your right as you drive into Chapala from the west. They indicated they plan on basically flattening the mountain. That will sure be lovely.

Let's see, on many days the traffic gridlock in Chapala Centro almost backs up out to that point. Now can't you just imagine this monstrosity on top of that?

These people have lost their minds. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if the thoroughly corrupt and incompetent Chapala government gave them the go ahead. Remember the sweeheart parking deal? Or those Raves they foisted on us?

This would make all that blight on the east side of Joco look trivial by comparison.

It's interesting that just as the lakeside is newly attracting folks from GDL looking for a little urban relief, the local governments are busy turning the place into a moment to really gargantuan and ugly mega development.

Soon, we'll have this looming over Chapala, the hillside blight looming over the libremiento in San Antonio and the gross sprawl on the east side of Joco finishing the job off. All of it overlooking the already thoroughly gridlocked, pothole pocked carretera.

Unreal.

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This had to be a"marketing study" to gauge how the community whould accept such a gigantic project. clearly it was not an enthusiastic crowd at the meeting. Nobody wants to see a PV type development on the shores of Lake Chapala.

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They were asked if this project could be stopped by the people here and the presenter informed them no and construction is expected to start in about 6 months.

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Gracias to Harry B for attending and reporting on the "meeting" today. Harry, have you discussed this issue with your contacts in the local government?? I'd like to know what the local people, the Real People, here think about all this. I tried to cut and paste a copy of the foto on a few of my MX FB friends' pages to solicit their opinions, but it didn't work technically, too bad.

After I posted on the other thread regarding this issue, I went back and looked at my subscription article in the Lake Chapala Reporter online publication by Lisa Jorgensen with her full article. The email announcing this meeting was neutral, but her article was incomprehensibly supportive of this massive boondoggle, as if this actually was the future of this beautiful area, and as if it was a good or welcome thing.

Like I said - aaagggghhhhh! Who among us moved here to see these ugly and stupid changes??

Her article showed more foto renditions of the project which is even more enormous than what the circulated foto shows. She says, "Construction will begin in October/November 2015 timeframe and the project will be completed in approximately 2 years."

SHE ALSO CLAIMS THAT THE PROPERTY HAS ALREADY BEEN PURCHASED, AND THAT ALL CONTRACTS HAVE BEEN SIGNED OFF BY THE GOVERNMENT, INCLUDING ECOLOGICAL STUDIES!

She states that feasibility studies have been done by the U. of Guadalajara, and that the Chapala government was interested in this type of facility - not simply "assisted living" , but a massive (more than 2000 units) condo complex with 420 townhouses situated above the 5 towers. And, while they are at it, why not add underground parking, a golf course, a shopping mall, a casino, a convention center, etc.????

She claims the Municipality of Chapala is supporting this seemingly hallucinatory plan because they are interested in being able to host major (sports?) events. God(dess) help me, isn't that usually done in big cities??? We are never going to have the Olympics or the Pan Am Games here at Chapala, face it! Can anyone even imagine tens of thousands of people convening in Chapala for any major event? Does that not sound like a total nightmare?

Didn't Guadalajara have a big problem with the Pan Am housing in 2010? I can't remember exactly, but it seems that cities (not cobblestone villages!) that build lots of extra housing for huge sports events often wind up with financial problems after the Big Event is over, everyone goes home, and the housing sits empty and falls into disrepair, and debts go unpaid.

We have seen how companies can start a project, gash up the land, and then leave for what ever reason, as has happened with the once beautiful hill above San Antonio.

I wonder if there is major drug laundering money behind this concept if it has already gone this far. It all seems too ludicrous for serious, legitimate business people to even contemplate!

In the public interest on this very important matter, I am going to copy and paste Lisa Jorgensen's closing paragraph in her article, so as not to be open to accusations that I am quoting her out of context:

"What will all this mean for our community? Is this terrifying or exciting? Some may say it’s only a step up from what must have seemed like a radical change when the Raquet Club was being built, or the Walmart, or the Centro Laguna mall. Many people probably anticipated the demise of the local culture. That didn’t happen. What did happen was that the culture changed enough to accommodate the modernization. And that will no doubt happen again. Will we long for the good old days? Probably, but we are always living in the good old days. And looking forward. The best thing we can do is to stay involved."

The examples she offers belie an ignorance of these actual examples. 1) The Raquet Club is nowhere near the scale of the Monstrous Lake City project. Evidently she is unaware that a sudden torrential rain (called a "tromba:) hit San Juan about 7.5 years ago destroying many homes in the town including in the posh Raquet Club because homes were stupidly - illegally? - built in arroyos. 2) The Centro Laguna still has mostly empty retail space after at least 5 years - a sure indicator it was never necessary in the first place. 3) According to a Mexican friend of mine, Walmart pays its employees around only $100 pesos PER DAY, keeping them in institutionalized poverty even as they hold full time jobs.

Few Mexicans can afford to shop at or live in the above places. They are suitable only for the rich foreigners and Mexicans, who simply do not number enough to make these business fly.

As Lisa J. says, the best thing we can do is stay involved - against this ghastly, horrible project which would certainly ruin the local area for all who actually live here.

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Didn't the original invitation mention that this was going to be a Marriott complex? I have trouble imagining that Marriott would allow its name to be attached to this project unless the groundwork had been completed. Ah, well, we can all move across the Lake as soon as the viaduct has been completed--wasn't that another project that got us all excited and that came to nought? Or was it the highway along the waterfront that I am thinking of?

Well, looks like it is a time to organize a few protests, petition Marriott, get some news coverage. Granted, Marriott probably looks upon us like they look on another Caribbean island to be exploited, but we gotta try.

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Think how much this would mean in added income to the business, restaurants, small business owners, bars etc, if this were all true?? Where are all these bleeding hearts who cry so loudly when the poor Mexican people suffer because of to little business and customers. I wonder??

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So, how was the food?

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Attended also; food was lousy. Woman presenting explained that she does not work for Naimar (the developer) but is a paid consultant. She answered questions frequently with "the study has been done." When asked by someone what could be done to stop the project, she replied "nothing" that construction would begin in 6 months. She also stated frequently that market studies indicated that this is what "you want." She pointed out that baby boomers are coming in and this is what they want. So, they are just giving us what they know we want. However, nobody asked us already living here what we wan; at least not that anyone I talked to knows of. Such a development may be wanted by baby boomers in the US and Canada if constructed north of the border. I have yet to meet an expat who left his/her country to live in such a horrible monstrosity as this. So, guess we best show them that we do NOT want it.

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One of their site's "Successful Projects" is Los Faros of Panama. According to Wikipedia, "The project was paralyzed by financial problems and has now been cancelled. It is extremely unlikely that this project will ever get constructed. Had it been constructed though, it was likely that the Central Tower would have been the tallest building on Latin America. It is currently undergoing debt liquidation."

I can find no affiliation between Grupo Naimar (founded in 2008, they say) with any of the other "Success Projects" they claim on their site.

Their website and their building in GDL are new, with no indication of a history except as claimed on their own web site. I will believe this whole LakeCity project when i see it!

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If this goes through I am one local businessman that will be heading to another location, I am sure I wont be the only one. This will bring thousands of people to the area, that is not why I came here.

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So nobody there was from the actual company? No resume of the principals or their projects or even their names? These studies, who did them and when? Building permits and ownership can be checked when City Hall opens back up. They would have to do a change of zoning, also the council would have to vote. Any building permits can be anulled and fought if they were not properly granted.

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Those of you who are citizens and will be voting in the upcoming municipal elections might want to put it direct to the candidates what their position on this is. I think this could be quite a nice campaign issue affecting the biggest voting block here, the folks in Chapala.

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We tried to get some specifics for projects they have completed. Other than "many worldwide" She was quasi-specific. She said "some student housing in Guadalajara, and a very successful major complex in Asturias, a small village in Spain. I have a friend Asturias whom I contacted. Nothing there fits the description.

We need to get into the Registrar of Land Titles office and check. They are closed this week. It will probably take a realtor among us to do it.

I think you'll this real pie in the sky, hogwash.

Does anyone have a company name for them in Europe? If there is one.

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I am sure that if the locals, both Mexican and expats put up a constant and well directed fight they will get fed up fighting and move on. Fighting the public will cost them money and time. There is six months to organize and strategize about how to stop this from ruining the area. If they are harassed or stopped at every turn they make surely they will go elsewhere.

Definitely make this the main election issue and put the politicians on the hotseat over this. This will change the area forever and likely lead to further development that is not wanted.

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Were there many Mexicans at the presentation,was it in English or Spanish?

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The answers they gave that Harry posted bring this to mind.....

Two guys are walking down the country road and spot an object ahead of them.

One says, does that look like cow poop?
The other says, sure does.
The 1st one says, you best smell it to be sure.
The 2nd one does, and says, yep, smells like cow poop.
The 1st one says, you best feel it to be really sure.
The 2nd one does, and says, yep, feels like cow poop.
The 1st one says, you best taste it to be extra sure.
The 2nd one does, and says, yep, tastes like cow poop.
The 1st one says, "good thing we didn't step in it, then".
And off they go.

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Yeah but think of all the solar panels they'll need!

LOL!

Clearly they must have noticed how many retirees have flocked to those high rises at the top of El Parque. Whoops, they flocked so little that only one ever got built and it flopped big time.

Yup, where do I sign up for high rise heaven?

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Yeah but think of all the solar panels they'll need!

LOL!

Clearly they must have noticed how many retirees have flocked to those high rises at the top of El Parque. Whoops, they flocked so little that only one ever got built and it flopped big time.

Yup, where do I sign up for high rise heaven?

Re: Yeah but think of all the solar panels they'll need!

It is so dense, they literally have no place to put them.....like many condos / towers in PV and other places.

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The vice president of the company gave the intro.

The woman who spoke was asked about thr roads on more than one occaision. She said there would be 6 roads inside the complex and when asked what about when they emptied out into the one two way road she refused an answer and only said that would be addressed eventually.

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Were there many Mexicans at the presentation,was it in English or Spanish?

Out of a crowd of around 250 or so, as far as I could tell there were zero Mexicans. I went for the laughs, but there weren't any, so I left after 40 minutes. All in English.

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Another more serious point to Harry & Spencer's questions and comments:

Has CFE been involved / consulted? At any level? Easy to check on, this if the project is starting in 6 months....

The electrical / grid & infrastructure in the area would likely not support this project; not even close.....

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I attended and participated in the meeting today. Lots of negativity from the expats. That's expected. This project in my opinion is unlikely to happen as presented. Make no mistake, the migration of baby boomers will continue. The expat population has tripled in the last 25 years and northern demographics will cause the population to Triple again in the next 10 years or less!!!! The population in Guadalajara is growing extremely fast and forces those with the ability to move further from their work. This will continue at an even faster rate. The locals I talked to today would like to believe that it will happen for the positive economic effects. They are the people who will vote in elections. Not us Expats. We can voice our disappointment that our world is changing, we can't stop demographics.

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