Tourist Permit (FMM) Renewal

[Sonia]

For those with a 6 month visa please note yesterday a person was turned back at Nuevo Laredo. They left Mexico after being here about 180 days and intended to turn around and re-enter with a new FMM. INM told him it was obvious he was a resident of Mexico and to go to MX consulate in Laredo. This person is from Chapala. He did obtain a pre-approved visa from the MX consulate in Laredo and is now back in Chapala and intend to see Spencer on Monday.

A few others are starting to report similar experience with FMM renewal at Nuevo Laredo.

Sonia

[Travis]

This is really interesting and would be a game-changer for a lot of people if it becomes the norm. I've always wondered why Mexico allows foreigners to essentially live here permanently on a tourist permit. I wonder how many people living here do the border dash every six months.

[Indianamom]

I had a friend do this in November and she was told that this was the last time, that she would be unable to do this again. She just turned in her visa and turned right around and asked for a new one. I told her I thought she had to go and re-enter the US then come back through. I thought that was the problem, but based on this it looks like they knew it was in the works.

[Hud]

I still have a feeling that returning the next day(or the next shift) will get you another 6 months.

[Sonia]

My advice is if living full time in Mexico it may be best to get at least a TR visa vs being caught at the border trying to renew and not prepared for whatever reason to spend time in Laredo, prove income, etc.

Based on feed back from clients Aduana and INM computers are much more sophisticated that anything before. For example, as I noted in another thread a client enters Mexico and visa was lost. When she went to our local INM in no time they knew she had flown into Mexico City, how she entered plus time and date. Another example I know clients who received letters delivered to their address from Aduana saying their car is in Mexico and it is illegal.

So far there are no tax implications as there would be with a Canadian being in the US much of the year. This is the law for expats in the US re taxes: The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) uses a “substantial presence” test to determine if someone is a resident for U.S. federal income tax purposes in a given calendar year. The “substantial presence” test is a mechanical formula based solely on the number of days on which an individual is present in the United States. The formula is applied to make a determination each calendar year. To be classified as a U.S. resident under the substantial presence test for a particular year, an individual must be physically present in the United States on at least 31 days of the current calendar year, and the sum of the following must equal 183 or more days: 1) all days in the United States in the current year, plus 2) one-third of the days in the immediately preceding year, plus 3) one-sixth of the days in the second preceding year.

Sonia

[Hud]

It would really be beneficial (Sonia and Spencer) for you to tell us WHAT the rules say about getting a tourist visa after you have had one for 180 days that has expired. I believe that rule would solve any concern here.

[AlanMexicali]

The INM laws and rules state it is up to the discretion of the INM officer issuing a FMM tourist card as to how many days he/she wants to give a tourist and if he/she wants to give a person another one when and if they check their computer data base and issue another FMM tourist card. The rules and laws do not state only one 180 day FMM toursit card can be issued in a 12 month period.

[Jim Bowie]

Surely there must be some guidelines, as every agent could give the same person different # of days?

(I know, this is Mexico).

[AlanMexicali]

Surely there must be some guidelines, as every agent could give the same person different # of days?

(I know, this is Mexico).

Article 26 of the rules state "up to 180 days." It also states what the INM officer can ask you about your visit and determine how many days he/she will give a tourist.

Google translation:

"Article 26. Listing of admission procedures into the country in the form, placement of people

Foreigners who do not require visas:

Case presented: Foreigners who intend to enter the country as

Visitors without permission to engage in gainful activity and are

nationals of countries with which Mexico has agreed suppression

visa, or who are not required visa under a unilateral decision

or commitment of the Mexican state.

Legal basis: Articles 3, fractions XI, XII, XV, XVIII and XXIX, 13, 16, 17, 34, 35, 37,

38, 43, 45, 81, 86, 87, 88 of the Act; 3 fractions IV, X, XV, XXII and XXVI;

51, 55, 57, 60, 61, 65, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, last paragraph 89, 90, 93,

94, 98 and 152 of Regulation.

Form of presentation: Personal.

Place where it occurs: Places for international movement of people.

Amount of rights: The appropriate pursuant to Federal Law.

Deadline for resolution: Immediate.

Duration of authorization: 180 calendar days.

(Second Section) OFFICIAL JOURNAL Thursday November 8, 2012

7 calendar days for aircrew members on active duty.

3 calendar days to crew members of vessels

surtas navigation height in national ports.

21 calendar days people aboard cruise ships documented

With collective permission.

Exceptions to Article 15-A of

LFPA:

It takes the original documents identified in the requirements 1, 2,

3, 4 and 5.

Requirements:

1. Passport or identity and travel document that is valid under the law

international.

2. FMM duly completed.

3. The alien beneficiary of commitments made by the Mexican government, in addition to

mentioned documents must submit one of the following documents:

a) A document certifying permanent residence in Canada, USA,

Japan, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, or any of the countries make up the Schengen Area;

b.) Visa valid and in force in the United States;

c) Card APEC Business Traveler (ABTC) adopted by Mexico;

d) Certificate that certifies as a member of the crew of the aircraft as above, or

e) Book sea, if a member of the crew of the vessel top Mexican port

in international voyage. If the crew up by air to enroll on a ship anchored in

National Harbor, shall also produce sea notepad document attesting their

enrollment, data from the vessel and the Mexican port in which it is located.

4. The immigration authority may request the foreign person to check the reason for your trip,

by any of the following documents:

a) hotel reservation, tickets back (path), tickets tours (path).

b.) mandate letter in Spanish parent company, affiliate or subsidiary foreigner

indicating that the foreign person is employed her and payment of services

they provide in the national territory shall be borne by it.

c) Copy of the technology transfer, patents and trademarks, purchase of

machinery and equipment, technical training of staff, or any other related

production process of a company established in Mexico or linking part

foreign to the Mexican side, or proof of appointment by the shareholders

companies legally established in Mexico.

d) Letter of organization or public or private institution that invite foreign person

to participate in an activity unpaid country, revealed the object of

the visit and the estimated length of stay. If the organization or institution will meet

the travel and stay of the foreigner in the country, should

attach responsive letter.

e) Letter of invitation or acceptance of any institution belonging to the Educational System

National for courses, studies or research projects or training by a

maximum stay of one hundred eighty days.

5. In the case of children or adolescents or persons under legal guardianship in terms of legislation civil, accompanied by an adult or third solo travelers must present

document attesting permission to leave the country for people who exercise

upon them the authority or guardianship granted before a notary public or competent authority.

In the case of a document issued abroad, must be legalized or apostilled

as appropriate, with translation in the case of a language other than Spanish.

6. Where applicable, provide the immigration authorities information be required.

Criteria resolution:

I. The crew of boats in ocean navigation, entering the territory

Thursday November 8, 2012 OFFICIAL GAZETTE (Second Section)

national sea out to air or to embark on another ship to leave

the country or entering air to enroll a vessel anchored in Mexican port and exit

the country, will be documented with FMM in the condition of stay of visitors without

permission for a temporary paid three calendar days activities.

II. Foreigners who integrate electronic listings of passengers and crew of ships

cruise on international voyage, landing in any Mexican port to visit or

to visit the surrounding areas and embark on the same vessel to continue their journey, they will

documented in the first port of arrival through collective permission on the condition

stay away without permission for paid for a period of twenty activities

calendar days.

III. Are considered members of the aircrew on active duty, those foreign persons

whose name is entered in the general statement or electronic lists

passengers, crew and transport.

The Department shall exempt from the filing of the document mentioned in paragraph 3, subparagraph d)

by this information, members of the aircrew on active duty, when checking the

their behalf is in the general statement or electronic passenger lists,

crew and transport.

In these cases, foreigners will be documented with FMM, in the condition of stay

Away without permission for paid by a seven-day temporary activities

natural.

Important information for the user:

- The FMM will be delivered by international flight/shipping companies and travel agencies. are

encouraged to complete the immigration form before arrival.

- If applicable admission, the immigration officer will retain the check in section of the FMM.

The alien shall retain the checkout section of the FMM attesting to their

Average stay in the country by the temporality specified therein, and shall

deliver it when leaving the country."

http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/marco_juridico/pdf/acuerdos/2012/Lineamientos_tramites_procedimientos_migratorios.pdf

[Yo1]

""Another example I know clients who received letters delivered to their address from Aduana saying their car is in Mexico and it is illegal. ""

How would Aduana have an address for someone with a TIP?

[Sonia]

How would Aduana have an address for someone with a TIP?

Person has a visa and INM has your address. Both INM and Aduana have passport number.

[wanderer]

i can remember trying to cross into mexico at the columbia bridge several years ago. we had not cancelled my wifes fmm when we came back to the US and there were about 10 days left on the fmm. the inm official said we could cancel it then and wait until the next day to get another one. so we cancelled her fmm right then and drown down to laredo and crossed and got a new one for her with no problem.

[Jim Bowie]

I believe that if you are denied another 180, you have 2 more choices: (1) wait until the next shift comes on, or (2) go to another nearby crossing. These rules have not changed, or it would be published. Remember, this is for visitors, not someone living full time in Mexico. If they believe you are living full time, what do you expect them to do? A lot depends on when and how you ask for this. Use common sense.

[RVGRINGO]

The rules have not changed, but they now have a very good computer system and can check your details. If it appears that you are not a true vacationer, they can definitely send you back north to apply for a Residente Temporal visa.

It might be wise to consider your eligibility for a visa, or be prepared to be turned away for some unknown period of time.

If you do actually live in Mexico for a significant part of each year, Residente Permanente may be your best option.

[Jim Bowie]

Just as we have new "visas" and rules are being enforced/changed, I believe that more notice of those "living full time" in Mexico and using a tourist card is being considered. I think they actually want those who really live here to get a RT or RP. But, has the rule changed...NO !

[Sonia]

A Mexican with a tourist visa for the US is clearly told it does not guarantee admittance and the person enters at the discretion of US agents. Mexico is one of the easiest countries in the world for an expat to live legally and not even a background check is done.

Sonia

[modeeper]

I'm due to make a border run in a week. I've had three FMMs covering the past year and a half. I hear around the staffroom people are having problems renewing. I've never turned in my Visa at Immigration. In fact I never cross into the USA. I just go to the IM office and renew.

After reading on another thread I now know my 660$ SS won't do me any good with permanency. I'm tempted to go wetback. I hate that trip to Laredo and what it costs. If I went there and were turned away I'd cry for my mommy.

Any non-wiseguy advice?

[Hud]

Mo, if I were in your place, I would stay where you are and really make an effort to stay out of trouble, and be ready to pay a mordida, if you get stopped in your car. Since you will not lose your deposit, all you need worry about is your car being impounded and you being deported. Neither very likely to happen unless you do something really dumb. So, go for it. Good luck.

[modeeper]

Yeah i know about that stuff. I never take my car out of my pueblo. No problem here, there're no cops and only about 1000 population. Buses are regular to Zapopan and GDL for 6 Pesos. Luckily only Immigration has authority to ask for your passport.

But what about when I want to leave? If I took my car to the border it'd be full of my valuables, and that includes lots of boy-toys, like a small guitar and amp collection, two computers and lots of tools. I'd be vulnerable. Plus I have nowhere in the USA to make a soft landing.

[bdlngton]

To me there is a difference between a visitor visa issued by the US and one issued by Mexico. The US visitor visa is issued by a consulate and is permission to travel to the port of entry. Entry to the US is decided by the immigration agent at the point of entry. This is true of all visas issued by US consulates. A Mexican visitor visa does not have to be applied for ahead of time but rather is issued at the point of entry to allow the visitor to enter the country.

[Hud]

Mo, when you want to leave, just leave. Remember, they are usually not going to stop you and ask for your papers, etc. when you are headed out, unless you do something dumb. Only on the US side. If you have nowhere to land, why would you head out?

[suegarn]

I can't believe that there are Americans on this board who are advocating staying in this country illegally. Americans have been complaining loudly for years about Mexicans being in their country illegally, so why do they feel that it's alright for them to do it in Mexico?

If your income is that low, how did you ever manage to live on that in the States? And if you've been residing in Mexico for many years, why didn't you go through the proper channels in the first place?

[Sonia]

To me there is a difference between a visitor visa issued by the US and one issued by Mexico. The US visitor visa is issued by a consulate and is permission to travel to the port of entry. Entry to the US is decided by the immigration agent at the point of entry. This is true of all visas issued by US consulates. A Mexican visitor visa does not have to be applied for ahead of time but rather is issued at the point of entry to allow the visitor to enter the country.

And at the Mexican border a foreigner can be declined. This is exactly what recently happened to a Chapala resident who was turned back at Nuevo Laredo and told too many entires as a tourist and to go the MX consulate in Laredo and apply for a visa. This he did.

Sonia

[modeeper]

I was talking to my boss and she said: Immigration has no way of knowing how long you actually stayed on your current visa. For all they know you only stayed a month. She said tell them you come to MX every 5-6 months to enjoy a better climate. I know you're suposed to turn in your visa upon exit. So I didn't. Is that a problem?

[modeeper]

I can't believe that there are Americans on this board who are advocating staying in this country illegally. Americans have been complaining loudly for years about Mexicans being in their country illegally, so why do they feel that it's alright for them to do it in Mexico?

If your income is that low, how did you ever manage to live on that in the States? And if you've been residing in Mexico for many years, why didn't you go through the proper channels in the first place?

Manby pamby is the phrase that comes to mind.. I can't believe you've appointed yourself our moral leader. And, how did I manage to live in the States? I worked! That didn't cross your mind?