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Keithsc

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I realize this topic has been discussed at length, but would appreciate some advice on a specific case of a friend (luckily I bought my car in Mexico).

My friend has a Texas plated car, should get her permanente in June, and is panicking about naturalizing the car. She contacted an agent in Guadalajara, who quoted her $10,000 pesos to regularize her car. This includes plates, stickers and 2015 refrendo (not sure what that is) takes a month and does not need the car to go to the border. She will not be able to sell the car, as there is a paper missing which she is told is the legalization.

This sounds questionable to me, but as this entire process is confusing, would appreciate comments.

She also approached another agent in Guadalajara who quoted 18, 500 pesos for legalization, 2,800 pesos for plates and a 1,000 peso fee, no need to go to the border. This also seems not to be in line with what I have seen on the forum. Again, comments welcome.

Thanks in advance.

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I would get the title back and call 400p a cheap learning experience. Then, I would contact Spencer and Sonia.

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I would like to know what people mean by "regularize" and its' legality. Spencer any thoughts? Are there driving and insurance limitations; can it be ever be registered in anther state. Is this really what GK did vs nationalize? I have had people ask me the difference between nationalize and regularize and I truly do not know.

Have a great weekend

Sonia

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If she cannot get her title back, she should request a “lost title“ replacement, then take the car to the USA to sell. No need to panic, but I am sure she will be a bit angry. However, that is better than finding out, later, that her car is illegal and her insurance is not any good; especially if she discovers that from a jail cell after an accident.

Better safe than sorry. Replace the car with one purchased from a Mexican car dealer.

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It sounds to me like your friend is being offered the same kind of deal those of us who dealt with Gary Keeler ended up with, except that the person she is dealing with is no saying he can nationalize the car. LIke Sonia, I don't know what the difference between "nationalizing" and "regularizing" is unless somehow "regularizing" refers to the process of registering it with Jalisco and getting the plates and registration. The "refrendo" is the process of paying to renew the license plates for the new year, which gives you a sticker to put in the window and the current registration card to carry with you in the car to show it is licensed. Like those of us who ended up with these things via Gary Keeler, while our cars may be registered with the state of Jalisco and we have been able to renew our license plates for the new year by paying the "refrendo," there is the greater question of whether our cars are legally in the country because the pedimentos to nationalize them are fraudulent and if our insurance would pay should we have an accident. Tell your friend to get her title back and the 400 pesos, if she can. If she can't get the title back, tell her to apply for a lost title through her state. Each state is different as to this process. She still has months to nationalize her car before she goes permanente. Hopefully things will change at the border and she can either take the car there or have someone do it for her to do the process. Or she can contact Sonia to find out what process she is offering currently. Or, if she has the money to do so, she should return the car to the US to sell and buy a Mexican car. The latter is the best alternative but not everybody can afford to do that. But she definitely needs to not go ahead with the process she appears to have initiated or she will find herself in the same mess many of us already are. Those are just my personal observations,opinions and recommendations.

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I believe that "regularize" refers to the process of putting the car on the roll of licensed vehicles for the state of Jalisco with Jalisco License Plates being issued and subject to "renewal" each year like the Mexican cars plates are renewed. Just says that you have Jalisco plates, does not do anything for making your car "legal" to be in Mexico, Anyone can get on that list by paying a fee( if you would like to have Jalisco Plates), but the fee is A LOT LESS than these people are charging. They cater to people who "panic" and look for an "easy way". :( ( Just being honest, not trying to offend anyone).

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Sounds fishy to me, the part about not being able to sell sounds like fake papers.

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Sounds fishy to me, the part about not being able to sell sounds like fake papers.

Thanks Spencer, appreciate and value your input. I too believe "regularization" is not a legal process. When I asked the man I nationalize cars through who worked at Aduana for 13 years he says never heard of it. If car is not ultimately on REPUVE basically says everything.

If nationalizing for an older vehicle ~2003 and older is about 21000 p it may be a better route to go. And nationalizing not counting travel costs is less at border.

Sonia

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I think it would behoove those affected to hire a Guadalajara lawyer who specializes in these types of things (State of Jalisco Finance Laws). In Puerto Vallarta, a "prominent" Guadalajara lawyer, the owner of a chain of ATM machines asking a friend in Federales, a former Chief of Police, and an experienced customs broker all claim that "legalization" is an option in Jalisco. These people are completely unrelated. Maybe you can't sell the car for four years, maybe you can only drive in Jalisco - I don't know, but I do know that for many people this would be perfectly acceptable. The only problem I have heard is that it does not remove you from the TIP database until after five years. If you get stopped by Federales (in Puerto Vallarta at least) and the TIP registration shows up, it is a 1,000 peso spot fine, payable in cash. All of them paid appr. 10,000 pesos, all received Mexico City plates, which are apparently legal in Jalisco (another thing to ask).

Maybe I have a different perspective because after 45 years of driving, I have never been pulled over in Canada, the U.S., the U.K. or Mexico. I think fear and nervousness attracts attention. Then again, maybe I am employing Jedi mind tricks ("nothing to see here, move along please")!

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1,000 pesos spot fine? If all fines are not bribes, why only payable in cash if all is above board? Also fines are never round numbers, they are X days minimum wage so it is impossible as with 2015 it would be 14.265 days minimum wage and last years would be 14.861 days.

It all may hinge on peoples definition, legalization, regularization, nationalization and permanent importation.

To me, the only option is one where you have full rights over your own car which means right to travel anywhere and the right to sell.

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And must be able to insure.

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Thanks Spencer, appreciate and value your input. I too believe "regularization" is not a legal process. When I asked the man I nationalize cars through who worked at Aduana for 13 years he says never heard of it. If car is not ultimately on REPUVE basically says everything.

If nationalizing for an older vehicle ~2003 and older is about 21000 p it may be a better route to go. And nationalizing not counting travel costs is less at border.

Sonia

Sonia--Can you please explain your last statement: "If natinalizing for and older vehicle-2004 or older-is about 21000 p it may be a better route to go"? Do you mean that "regularizing" a 2004 or older vehicle is an option?

I was told that because my car is older than 10 years that after I have paid refrendo three times that I can change the owner on the title, thus selling it, without having a pedimento. Is this correct?

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Sonia--Can you please explain your last statement: "If nationalizing for an older vehicle-2004 or older-is about 21000 p it may be a better route to go"? Do you mean that "regularizing" a 2004 or older vehicle is an option?

I was told that because my car is older than 10 years that after I have paid refrendo three times that I can change the owner on the title, thus selling it, without having a pedimento. Is this correct?

No, I mean I have little knowledge regarding "legalizing / regularizing"and I personally no not believe a fully legal process. If that process is say 10,000 pesos then I suggest people go to border and pay ~15000 pesos or nationalize virtually for ~21000 pesos (depending on age / value) and have a pedimento and factura and then register vehicle in Mexico. It shows up on REPUVE with 23 million or more other legal vehicles.

To me a process which some refer to as "legalize/regularize" that may include some or all of: no ability to insure, to sell, to list on REPUVE, to register in any state, may be subjected to fines or worse is certainly not what I recommend. And where is the 10,000 pesos payment going?

A nationalized vehicle gets a pedimento and factura and the factura follows the car for its' life and required for every future sale.

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According to the post of the people who were stopped in Puerto Vallarta, only because a car of their make and model was reported stolen, the Federales were totally comfortable with her paper work, which included a factura from a Nissan dealer in Guadalajara, all the VIN#s, insurance and plates checked out - the only problem was they also ran the aduana database, because of the potential stolen car angle, it showed an outstanding TIP. None of the Vallartans are mentioning problems insuring, selling their vehicles. I'm just putting out there as something to check for.

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According to the post of the people who were stopped in Puerto Vallarta, only because a car of their make and model was reported stolen, the Federales were totally comfortable with her paper work, which included a factura from a Nissan dealer in Guadalajara, all the VIN#s, insurance and plates checked out - the only problem was they also ran the aduana database, because of the potential stolen car angle, it showed an outstanding TIP. None of the Vallartans are mentioning problems insuring, selling their vehicles. I'm just putting out there as something to check for.

Then I must be mistaken as I understood the process referred to as legalizing/regularizing was in reference to foreign registered vehicles that went through this process. Obviously not if they have a factura from a dealer. I must be missing something.

Sonia

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I don't understand; if you still have a TIP showing on the computer but left the country without checking out with either immigration or surrendering your sticker (maybe the deposit was lost anyway), so what? If you have a permanente with Jalisco plates that show on the state and federal databases but also a TIP, so what? Doesn't mean that you don't have a legal car, only that you didn't turn in your TIP sticker. When during your Jalisco inspection you took your TIP sticker off and threw it away, is there any record of the TIP being cancelled--no. Again, so what? I don't see any legal ramifications.

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How does one get a dealer factura from a dealership in Mexico when the car was bought outside of Mexico and brought in by an expat with a TIP? Then again it is Mexico. :-)

The cars fraudulently "nationalized" at the airport also show up on REPUVE and had plates but appears not lega. Maybe at the airport people were paying for nationalizing at a very high cost and were using this process that some call "regularize" and pocketing many thousand pesos.

Sonia

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The factura from the dealer was part of the deal. Car dealers seem to play a big part in the process. The car carries two registrations, which is what the Federales were concerned about. I assume they were both the same VIN# - one registration to a foreign plated car, temporarily imported to Mexico - the other to a Mexican plated car, with all registrations in place (at least to Federale requirements). It is a legally gray area. As was pointed out on the Vallarta forum, it is extremely unlikely that a Federale is going to run a TIP scan as a matter of course

When you think about it, there has to be a mechanism like 'legalization/regularization'. With 4 million people in Guadalajara, 20 million in Mexico City, there are a lot of them who would like to drive what are now chocolate, classic, non-nafta, and collector foreign plated cars. You can be very sure they don't want to drive to the U.S./Mexican border to make it happen. That is also too much potential State revenue to lose to the Feds.

Good government is like watching a pot of water boil. If there is no lid, there is chaos, and it soon boils dry and burns the pot. If you put a tight, tight lid on it, it will eventually explode. So the best way, is like those pressure cookers, steam builds up but slowly escapes with a small, controlled release. On the car import issue (and many others) the government has chosen the pressure cooker approach. Allowing certain individuals to process imports because they have earned the privilege (I think of Sonia's setup as like that). The ones who thought they could simply buy the privilege had that taken away - for now anyways. It would seem to reason that the States of Mexico, especially the political all powerful ones away from the border, would be allowed some degree of autonomy in registering what are now foreign plated cars into what will become annual tax paying contributors.

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http://www.sat.gob.mx/aduanas/vehiculos/importaciones_autosusados/Paginas/regularizacion.aspx

This might give some hope to people who have a temporarily imported vehicle that they want to turn into a definitive import without having to go back to the border.

Thank you for this link and Chillin for your comments. I have someone who may be able to better explain this process and the legality. Fingers crossed and we all may have a better understanding as possibly this is a viable and less costly option vs nationalizing. If I can get clarification, will post.

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It appears, then, that the TIP cannot be removed and receipted unless the car is taken to the border. True? If so, that would probably be the ‘red flag‘ for any traffic authority, who would assume that, ‘you can‘t have it both ways‘ with a TIP and Mexican plates.

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It appears, then, that the TIP cannot be removed and receipted unless the car is taken to the border. True? If so, that would probably be the ‘red flag‘ for any traffic authority, who would assume that, ‘you can‘t have it both ways‘ with a TIP and Mexican plates.

When you nationalize in the manner I do, clients can go to local Aduana (here it is Queretaro airport) and prove car is nationalized and TIP is removed but no refund.

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