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People have been coming to me with their pedimentos and they are all fake. Some people even have the same pedimento number, proof that they are faking and cloning them. All these people involved know that they were involved in fraud and are doing nothing to warn their victims nor refund money paid for fake documents.

I want to gather people and we will get certifications from Aduana that these documents are fake and then prosecute the bad guys as people have paid so much money for fake papers and now risk bigger problems. Not fair.

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Less than 4 years ago, you could enter with a foreign plated car, it didn't matter where it was manufactured, and you could keep it as long as you renewed your FM2 or FM3. You would have to import the car, or get rid of it, only when you received Mexican immigrant status. Now the rules have been changed so many times, nobody knows what is happening or going to happen. In an atmosphere of instability and uncertainty, many people like to feel they can "escape" back to their country of origin with a vehicle already registered there.

Luke - have you discussed this with someone in Jalisco who knows State Finance laws? Spenser, by his own admission, does not handle car import papers or people - but he is always up for a class action law suit.

Chillin, do you think it is fair to attack Spencer in this manner. Not all lawyers handle all things. As a matter of fact, Spencer did start out nationalizing cars but when he ran into trouble with the person he was going through to do this, he stopped and refunded the money to the people that had put their faith and trust in him. He saw that there was way too much money involved in nationalizing cars and that people were trying to make even more by being fraudulent. Since then he has helped people that have found themselves in problems and helped get things straightened out. For this you chastise him?

Spencer is trying to get enough people together to have some clout, to bring this to public attention, to try to get some restitution for the ones of us that have been out thousands of dollars. For this I am thankful even if it comes to nothing he is trying. I really can't imagine that if you found yourself in this mess that you would not want a lawyer working for your interests. I don't think you would be so hasty to put them down as always being up for a class action law suit.

As to the question about what Gary is doing. He is taking off on a vacation to Chile next week and does not seem one wit concerned that he has defrauded his close friends, people in his church, his community. He does not think anything will come of this and that he is going to get by taking our money out of our wallets. I am extremely hurt and disappointed in his attitude. He does not want to come forward to work with Spencer in making this as right as he can. If he does he knows that he will have to pay back the money he has taken for himself and he is not willing to even contemplate taking such an action. We have been friends for 9 years now and believe me this hurts on many levels.

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Chillin, do you think it is fair to attack Spencer in this manner. Not all lawyers handle all things. As a matter of fact, Spencer did start out nationalizing cars but when he ran into trouble with the person he was going through to do this, he stopped and refunded the money to the people that had put their faith and trust in him. He saw that there was way too much money involved in nationalizing cars and that people were trying to make even more by being fraudulent. Since then he has helped people that have found themselves in problems and helped get things straightened out. For this you chastise him?

Spencer is trying to get enough people together to have some clout, to bring this to public attention, to try to get some restitution for the ones of us that have been out thousands of dollars. For this I am thankful even if it comes to nothing he is trying. I really can't imagine that if you found yourself in this mess that you would not want a lawyer working for your interests. I don't think you would be so hasty to put them down as always being up for a class action law suit.

As to the question about what Gary is doing. He is taking off on a vacation to Chile next week and does not seem one wit concerned that he has defrauded his close friends, people in his church, his community. He does not think anything will come of this and that he is going to get by taking our money out of our wallets. I am extremely hurt and disappointed in his attitude. He does not want to come forward to work with Spencer in making this as right as he can. If he does he knows that he will have to pay back the money he has taken for himself and he is not willing to even contemplate taking such an action. We have been friends for 9 years now and believe me this hurts on many levels.

With you all the way on this, Luke. Disgraceful that Gary does not seem concerned at all that he has made money fraudulently. Wonder if we financed the vacation in Chile. Wonder if we'll see him back at Lakeside later on.

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People have been coming to me with their pedimentos and they are all fake. Some people even have the same pedimento number, proof that they are faking and cloning them. All these people involved know that they were involved in fraud and are doing nothing to warn their victims nor refund money paid for fake documents.

I want to gather people and we will get certifications from Aduana that these documents are fake and then prosecute the bad guys as people have paid so much money for fake papers and now risk bigger problems. Not fair.

People have been coming to me with their pedimentos and they are all fake. Some people even have the same pedimento number, proof that they are faking and cloning them. All these people involved know that they were involved in fraud and are doing nothing to warn their victims nor refund money paid for fake documents.

I want to gather people and we will get certifications from Aduana that these documents are fake and then prosecute the bad guys as people have paid so much money for fake papers and now risk bigger problems. Not fair.

I'll be in Friday morning with my fraudulent pedimento. I encourage others to do the same. We may never see our money again but it's worth the effort. To do nothing is to let these people get away with stealing.

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That was a couple of years ago. I think Gary Keeler gave that name on the message board. For all I know she could be a clerk in a customs agency, but this is the name I was given - and she replied to that name and company.

I find it hard to believe they would go to all the trouble to make up a "fake" pedimento. The risks of exposure, forfeiting customs bonds and criminal prosecution are too great. If they are fake, there are still lots of options, but I would be uncomfortable discussing with strangers, and don't really know enough to offer solid advice. For example - keep the car registered in the U.S. in a place like South Dakota. Get the plates too. Insure with one of the big online insurance companies for a "driving vacation in Mexico" (Lewis and Clark, Sanborns?). Keep and ride with the Jalisco plates. If you ever have to return to the U.S., put on the Dakota plates before or after the border. Having a vehicle registered to two different countries would be a very gray area legally. The argument that you feel safer driving with plates in the country you are in would work with me.

The vehicles 'regularized' in Puerto Vallarta was as recommended by a former Chief of Police. I know that is not anywhere a guarantee of conduct, but I have heard that he is a good and honest man. The cost there was just over $1,200 U.S. (if I remember correctly). The customs broker who frauded the Tio corp, took off with something like $30,000 in deposits. That was enough for him to give up his Lic. and broker license and take off to parts unknown.

Believe it!!! How do you explain that the dates on our pedimentos are before we even contacted Gary Keeler or contracted with him to NATIONALIZE our cars.

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It's pretty easy to figure out if your pedimento is fraudulent. Is the address correct under your name or is it in Mexico City or Mexicali? Is the RFC number correct or only part of your number or none of your number? Is the date on the pedimento before you contracted with Gary? In section 1 is your VIN, make and model correct? Good for you; you have a pedimento that might fool the average person unfamiliar with a pedimento form. But the rest is a clone right out of a PDF program. Even the blue printed receipt for payment in the upper right corner fooled me into believing this was legit. I asked Gary about the date of my pedimento and he told me that the broker at the airport had gotten a bunch of blank, dated forms at one time and then used them as they were needed.

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Good Grief!!! Is our name supposed to be on it? Ours appears no where and I didn't even pick up on the RFC being nothing to do with us. I did pick up on the date being before we contracted Gary but he told us that they came that way from the government office that supplied them to the lady at the airport. That they gave her a certain amount of them at one time and they were all stamped the same by the government office ... not the lady at the airport. Yes, our make, model and VIN number are correct in secion 1, but it is incorrect down further in the body.

Please, may I never have another friend like Gary.

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Weeks ago, I identified the areas to look for after a person posting here sent me a scan of their pedimento. It took me two weeks but Aduana stated it was a clone. I informed the person and Spencer. One of the clues is if plates were issued. Another is if your vehicle was non-NAFTA as not possible after January last year. Another is date on pedimento is before you requested the service. There are no pads of pedimentos waiting to be completed. A new form is generated each time a pedimento is completed. Another is if 2009 vehicle was nationalized before Nov 2013 for a NAFTA car and 2006 for non-NAFTA. It took some effort and possibly even an Aduana employee to be involved in this scam. The facilitator had to have known this was fraud for more than one reason. And any price over approx 27000 pesos (with a few exceptions) was excessive. Many are much lower.

In past month we confirmed we could not complete four of the non-NAFTA we started almost a year ago and the four car owners have a full refund. I say this to let others know why I say no non-NAFTA since last January. My big problem is the huge time it takes to get a legal pedimento and factura for NAFTA vehicles and the issue is Aduana.

The pedimento is issued by Aduana has only VIN and not a person's name. The factura has a person's name and issued by broker and is required at Rentas to get plates. It is my understanding that all legal brokers are registered with Aduana and those that are have an office at port of entry such as Laredo, Nogales, Tijuana.

We know Spencer and please have faith in him and his team. For those not aware his wife is also a very competent lawyer.

Sincere best wishes to all those involved.

This is so unlike cars moving back and forth between Canada and the US. One simply checks a chart to see if meets the other countries requirements (nearly all do), have an inspection, pay a few hundred dollars and it is done quickly.

Sonia

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I don't know of anybody who used the airport who got a factura. There is no doubt in my mind that an Aduana employee is involved to be able to get copies of issued pedimentos and then change them in a PDF program. Also someone in the Jalisco auto registration department or a hacker into the Jalisco State site to put our info into the Jalisco database in order to get legit license plates and a new 2015 tarjeta de circulation and sticker. I noticed last week when comparing the receipt for 2014 sticker and this year's sticker that the Jalisco state seal at the top of the receipt is silver with a hologram. The 2014 sticker has a silver Jalisco emblem but no hologram. I originally didn't look closely at this as it was silver and looked legit on a cursory inspection.

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Any one wanting me to email a real factura happy to do so. For some reason I can not paste here.

If one totals up all the funds involved I would suspect the ticket to Chile would not have a return to Mexico. I wonder if it is possible to take legal action and have his passport held by the authorities as he is a flight risk.

Sonia

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It's pretty easy to figure out if your pedimento is fraudulent. Is the address correct under your name or is it in Mexico City or Mexicali? Is the RFC number correct or only part of your number or none of your number? Is the date on the pedimento before you contracted with Gary? In section 1 is your VIN, make and model correct? Good for you; you have a pedimento that might fool the average person unfamiliar with a pedimento form. But the rest is a clone right out of a PDF program. Even the blue printed receipt for payment in the upper right corner fooled me into believing this was legit. I asked Gary about the date of my pedimento and he told me that the broker at the airport had gotten a bunch of blank, dated forms at one time and then used them as they were needed.

When he delivered my "pedimento" he sort of waved at the space with the date and said "Ignore that. It's not important." Seems like a pretty good indication he knew something was fishy, yet he continued to take people's money.

This must be very hurtful for someone like you and Luke who considered Gary a good friend.

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Yeah, it sucks, big time. Not only because is was a friend but because I trusted him to do right by me and anyone I would send to him. He got into another member of the Church's pocket for 45K and he had know them for over 20 years in the States and went to Church with them. I'm slowly learning not to trust hardly anyone. The Mexicans don't trust each other so what makes use think we can trust them . . . or each other. I only know a couple of people I can trust implicitly and who knows about them.

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Someone posted a letter from Gary on this forum wherein he stated that he was the only person authorized to deal with the aduana at the airport, supposedly because he was bilingual,that got my BS meter twitching.If you read that letter he was somewhat vague about how legitimate the process he used was,if memory serves me.

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My understanding, and this has been confirmed by people who deal with Aduana at the airport, that lots of people were showing up to do their own nationalization and were causing problems and getting past the guard was getting difficult. The "lady" wanted only one person to come and go to her office so she picked Gary because he was bilingual. That's what Gary told me. I know he said he would get me legal plates for Jalisco which he sort of did. But I also asked about being able to sell the car in Mexico and he said I would have all the legal papers to allow me to do that. Not true. I must now take my car to the US to sell. If I had known at the time that I bought a 2010 car that our FM3's would turn into permanentes and that my car wouldn't be able to be legally imported, I would have bought an older car. Not only was I defrauded by Gary but the Mexican govt. pulled a fast one on us all. Now that the car dealer assoc. are bribing the Aduana folks to not import 2010s in 2015 as specified in NAFTA, I am in a pickle through no fault of my own except for being gullible with my ex-friend. Live and learn.

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Churches are prime hunting grounds for predators of all sorts. Because there is an unspoken understanding that church people are good people, members tend to lower their guards. Predators know this. Whenever anyone says something like, "Of course, I trust him. He goes to my church," I cringe.

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Okay, people, I am going to try to put this politely: ahem, WTF (PM me for translation here), why would you have thought that the process at the airport was legit? I am not the brightest bulb on the tree, but this smelled from the get-go. Me, I first bought a Mexican car from S&S, then I paid someone to drive me and my van to the US, sold it to a Mormon with 5 kids, and returned to embrace my new Honda FIT which was waiting in the carport. Granted, I probably lost money on this, and granted, I had the cash to make it happen, and I know many people here are stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place and cannot do this. But to me, it was obvious from the get-go that this business of nationalizing cars at the airport was, to put it politely, extremely iffy; this is NOT how the process is designed to work, it was all about people wanting to believe they could get around the new laws. Alas, there are elderly people here who moved down before it was necessary to legalize your non-Mexican car, and you still see Mexicans driving around in these cars apparently with impunity. But me, it has always made me nervous not to be in legal compliance with everything. I got a lot of flack from friends about the whole thing, and granted I probably absorbed a loss on the deal, but I like being legal here! I like being legal on everything. I sympathize completely with those who have a foreign car and cannot afford alternatives. But for those people who can afford to do things legally, I ask, why wouldn't you? Yes, the money you save might buy you a lovely vacation, but me, I like that thing called "peace of mind."

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I have always tried to do everything legally, even when sometimes the ways of Mexico make it difficult AND more expensive. I, too, wondered about the airport. But when Gary told me that he had nationalized his own car there and everything was kosher, I naively believed him. I've know him for over 9 years and had no reason to disbelieve him. It would have been cheaper, probably, to take my car to the border but at the time I was in a time crunch and I wanted to help out a friend financially, too.

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But to me, it was obvious from the get-go that this business of nationalizing cars at the airport was, to put it politely, extremely iffy; this is NOT how the process is designed to work, it was all about people wanting to believe they could get around the new laws.

I disagree,I don't think that people were trying to get around the new laws,they were trying to comply with them and hoping to avoid a trip to the border,why would it be unreasonable to believe that the Mexican aduana at GDL could handle this type of importation?I had hoped to do mine that way,but when I spoke to a couple of brokers there a few months ago they told me that I would be better off going to the border,I appreciated their honesty.

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JayBearII, too bad everyone doesn't have your expertise and special know how. I resent very much your little speech. We for one and I know there are many more and probably most were not trying to go around anything. Thanks for kicking everyone when they are down ... so very much appreciated.

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I wasn't trying to go around anything when I elected to use Gary. I have "peace of mind" that I tried to do the everything the legal way. I've stated my reasons and that's all I'm going to say on the subject. You folks can go ahead and beat each other up, but I'm out of it.

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Before this topic gets closed I'll just note that we looked at that whole situation and while JayBear is correct in some respects, the idea that people were trying to "get around" something is off base in many if not most cases because no one knew what the "something" was then and to a large degree don't know now. The government has made a complete mess of this thing and continues to do so.

Supposedly, the entity at the airport doing the importing was legitimate, working out of a real business office and real company. It didn't look fly by night and didn't operate that way. I know this because one of my friends went that route and everything looked legal if very expensive. He has Jalisco plates which he has renewed twice with no problem and he thinks he is insured. He's almost stopped driving anyway and doesn't expect to be around long enough to need another car.

Because of the expense and because things were getting really crazy when we had to make this decision, we bit the bullet, sold the car to a relative and bought one here. However, I can sure understand and sympathize with those that used this very legitimate looking operation at the airport. It looked totally legit and maybe at one point, it was. Who knows, given how the rules changed from one minute to the next?

The bottom line is Mexico is making it basically impossible for individuals to import their cars here. All this while cars being imported by Mexicans continue to stream across the border. Every time we go north and return, we see Mexicans hauling cars on trailers headed south. Such is the fact of life here, the law is selectively enforced and often bought off by the professionals and the natives who know how to do it. It is what it is and isn't going to change in my life time.

Even though those cars must allegedly now jump through a new government hurdle at the border, this time clearing U.S. customs, I'll bet we continue to see them rolling south unabated and without clearance from anyone. It is a joke to think that either of these governments has any semblance of real control of that border. All they can do is hassle the legitimate people who are trying to do things right and that is what they do and will continue to do.

Personally, I'm sorry some of you got burned by this airport scam. You weren't stupid and you weren't dishonest. You thought you were complying with the law and using a legal, established importing entity at considerable expense.

The government created the situation that allowed this to happen. Blame them.

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Before this topic gets closed I'll just note that we looked at that whole situation and while JayBear is correct in some respects, the idea that people were trying to "get around" something is off base in many if not most cases because no one knew what the "something" was then and to a large degree don't know now. The government has made a complete mess of this thing and continues to do so.

Supposedly, the entity at the airport doing the importing was legitimate, working out of a real business office and real company. It didn't look fly by night and didn't operate that way. I know this because one of my friends went that route and everything looked legal if very expensive. He has Jalisco plates which he has renewed twice with no problem and he thinks he is insured. He's almost stopped driving anyway and doesn't expect to be around long enough to need another car.

Because of the expense and because things were getting really crazy when we had to make this decision, we bit the bullet, sold the car to a relative and bought one here. However, I can sure understand and sympathize with those that used this very legitimate looking operation at the airport. It looked totally legit and maybe at one point, it was. Who knows, given how the rules changed from one minute to the next?

The bottom line is Mexico is making it basically impossible for individuals to import their cars here. All this while cars being imported by Mexicans continue to stream across the border. Every time we go north and return, we see Mexicans hauling cars on trailers headed south. Such is the fact of life here, the law is selectively enforced and often bought off by the professionals and the natives who know how to do it. It is what it is and isn't going to change in my life time.

Even though those cars must allegedly now jump through a new government hurdle at the border, this time clearing U.S. customs, I'll bet we continue to see them rolling south unabated and without clearance from anyone. It is a joke to think that either of these governments has any semblance of real control of that border. All they can do is hassle the legitimate people who are trying to do things right and that is what they do and will continue to do.

Personally, I'm sorry some of you got burned by this airport scam. You weren't stupid and you weren't dishonest. You thought you were complying with the law and using a legal, established importing entity at considerable expense.

The government created the situation that allowed this to happen. Blame them.

Right on!! There are many reasons we chose to not drive our cars to the border either to nationalize or to sell in the US. There are reasons we didn't want to buy a car in Mexico. All of those are valid reasons for doing this through Gary. There was no reason at the time I did it to believe it wasn't legit. People have been talking about nationalizing at the airport ever since the changes in immigration laws forced us to go permanente, something we never planned on doing. As I have said before, I was quite content to stay FM3 and renew that every year. I would even have gladly paid an amount, say 3000 pesos, yearly for the privilege of having my US-plated car in Mexico. But those options were not open to me. Again, I'd comply and buy a Mexican car if someone wants to lend me the money to do so.

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Truly sorry for the people that have now found out papers are not legal...............how many times on this board were we told that you need to take the car to border to have it done legally.......I'm waiting for the border to start nationalizing cars again........I've parked it, and the bus does take you to where you need to go.

Good Luck to all.

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From another board

SEPTEMBER 2, 2014

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:


Hi, my name is Gary Keeler and I am the guy Nationalizing cars at the Guadalajara Airport Aduana Offices. Currently, I am the only one authorized to work with the Aduana Agent in order to get your car plated.


Why am I the only one? There are several reasons (1) I speak fluent Spanish (2) I have been working with this agent for one year and have brought them a lot of business. (3) The security at the Aduana complex was increased and strict rules were put into place to restrict access. (4) Management felt the agent I deal with was being overwhelmed with people showing up unexpectedly. So I was asked if I would be the sole source. I have to make appointments to present applications.


I have completed - that is, provided official Jalisco receipts, pedimentos , stickers, and plates for about 30 cars and I have zero complaints (Except for the process taking longer than we originally projected but after all, we are in Mexico). I put the stickers on your windows and get down on my hands and knees to install the plates.


Do I get paid? Yes, I make a commission on each car. The entire process is expensive, but I do not set the fees. I paid $33,000 pesos to have mine done.

I have received referrals from those I have helped and “word of mouth”. I have never advertized although, some friends have put my name out there. Most recently, I been receiving referrals from some companies. I am working with Olivia at Parker Insurance. (I have been with them for 11 years and they are the best – cost and service.) I also work with Beatriz de la Garza in Guadalajara. She does immigration papers, translation, tours of Guadalajara and the Area, etc. Perfect English. (Visit www.retiringinmex.com.)


Some ask “Is it legal?” All I know is I get the same papers as you would get going to the border plus the plates, all for one fee.


If you have questions or want to get started please call or write.

Gary Keeler

376-765-5149 or cell 331-735-3881

garykeeler at prodigy.net.mx

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