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WITHDRAWAL OF RECOMMENDATION


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I am very sorry to have to post this. I recommended the gentleman that facilitates the nationalization of cars with the "lady at the airport". I do not know if all the cars that have been nationalized or "imported" through this "lady" and "gentleman" are fake or not, I certainly hope that is not the case.

However, we have come to the conclusion that our papers are fake. There are several many facts that are rather irrefuteable as they pertain to our particular situation.

Please, if you have used these people to nationalize or import your car, get in touch with Spencer. He is trying to put together a list of people that have fake papers. He already has 7 or 8. He has a way of finding out whether yours are fake or not ... Then, it is my understanding he is going to see what the next step will be in order to hopefully have them refund our money (which I don't really hold out much hope) and/or have these people prosecuted.

I am so very sorry that I recommended this particular individual. I can only hope that at least some of you who used him because of my recommendation have a legally nationalized car. I do seem to remember early on that after the papers came back that he used to then take the car physically to Guadalajara to have the car inspected and obtain the plates. However, at some point this quit happening and I don't know exactly when this procedure stopped. So, hopefully, not all the cars are illegal. We were just not that fortunate and are now out our $45,000.00 + pesos which is a financial blow we were not prepared for ...

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I am very sorry to have to post this. I recommended the gentleman that facilitates the nationalization of cars with the "lady at the airport". I do not know if all the cars that have been nationalized or "imported" through this "lady" and "gentleman" are fake or not, I certainly hope that is not the case.

However, we have come to the conclusion that our papers are fake. There are several many facts that are rather irrefuteable as they pertain to our particular situation.

Please, if you have used these people to nationalize or import your car, get in touch with Spencer. He is trying to put together a list of people that have fake papers. He already has 7 or 8. He has a way of finding out whether yours are fake or not ... Then, it is my understanding he is going to see what the next step will be in order to hopefully have them refund our money (which I don't really hold out much hope) and/or have these people prosecuted.

I am so very sorry that I recommended this particular individual. I can only hope that at least some of you who used him because of my recommendation have a legally nationalized car. I do seem to remember early on that after the papers came back that he used to then take the car physically to Guadalajara to have the car inspected and obtain the plates. However, at some point this quit happening and I don't know exactly when this procedure stopped. So, hopefully, not all the cars are illegal. We were just not that fortunate and are now out our $45,000.00 + pesos which is a financial blow we were not prepared for ...

You posted previously that you had checked our your VIN number on some government site and it showed up so you felt it was legal. Was that a site like REPUVE or the Jalisco site? I also supposedly nationalized my car through the person you are referring to and couldn't find my VIN on REPUVE but then someone gave me a link to a Jalisco site and the VIN and license plate number appeared there. However it does not show who the car is registered to.

What leads you to believe now that your documents are not legal?

Thanks for the heads up. I will take my documents to Spencer to see what he can find out.

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Our car was on one of the websites ... we also got tickets delivered in the mail .... we bought new license plates. However, we have found our papers are not in order in several ways and what I thought was our car on REPUVE was not. Check with Spencer.

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I want to be clear. I withdrew my recommendation based on our personal experience. I said in my original posting that I hope that some of the cars that were nationalized were done correctly. I actually hope that all of them were. I just know that ours was not. I wanted to believe it was ... I have wanted to believe it was for the last year but now I know positively that it was not. You may check your car's status or not, you may seek legal advise or not, you may think I am being an alarmist ... whatever. The purpose of my post was withdrawal of a recommendation because I had previously recommended this individual to many people.

We have a 2009 J car. It is not legal though we have paid a pretty penny and are now told that at least we can get license. I am here to tell you that getting license is not the important part.

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I am sorry for your loss. This may be all be a misunderstanding. I contacted the "lady at the airport" a couple of years ago via email - she is a lawyer and an import broker. Her English is not very strong. She replied that Japanese cars could be "regularized" for the State of Jalisco, but not "nationalized" at that time. I have a Japanese car with a Canadian V.I.N. number. Despite asking many times on these boards - no one has been willing, or perhaps knowledgeable enough, to provide an answer as to what "regularize" means. What is the process, pros and cons. Then there was a big bunch of vehicles "regularized" in Puerto Vallarta, but the plates came from Mexico City.

Some people just want enough paperwork to keep the Federales happy and valid plates to keep the Transitos happy. You may have suspected that there may be some irregularities but in the end you went to valid customs broker/lawyer and these are the papers they gave to you. As long as you had no intent to deceive, which would have to be clearly, and absolutely proven, you are free to go. I would get a translator and talk to the "lady at the airport". Maybe your facilitator was told this upfront, but perhaps did not pass on this information to you. Maybe your vehicle is a lot more "legal" than you think - especially for the State of Jalisco. Lots of maybes.

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I, too, would like to know the difference between "nationalization" and "regularization." I found my VIN, car description and license plate number on a Jalisco website but not on a national one. I wish I could remember what that Jalisco website is. Maybe somebody can post the link here. Maybe my car was "regularized" but not "nationalized"?? All of the papers look official with Jalisco state info but the dates precede the date I started the process with Gary, which makes me suspicious. I don't even know which custom broker at the airport Gary dealt with so would have no idea how to get in touch with her. Plus my understanding was that the only person she would deal with was Gary. I appreciate any information people can give as details about this situation unfolds.

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Her name is Lic. Marta Duenes Pena

Her email is aasecorp (at) live.com

Hello good dia

En this moment no legalization just regulation of vehicle so that you can bring plates of authorized movement of Jalisco the cost of the process of your vehicle is 23,500.00 pesos

saludos

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The biggest problems are that you cannot sell the vehicle outside of Jalisco and that your insurance probably has a clause that state that the vehicle must be legally in Mexico; not just Jalisco.

If you still have the US title, it could be wise to put the US plates back on as you cross the border going north, and disposing of the car in the USA.

If you did not go to the border and/or if the paperwork dates are fishy, the car is not legal. Spencer can confirm that.

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The biggest problems are that you cannot sell the vehicle outside of Jalisco and that your insurance probably has a clause that state that the vehicle must be legally in Mexico; not just Jalisco.

If you still have the US title, it could be wise to put the US plates back on as you cross the border going north, and disposing of the car in the USA.

If you did not go to the border and/or if the paperwork dates are fishy, the car is not legal. Spencer can confirm that.

And your source for this wisdom? The insurance is not true, I asked an agent. There is always someone to take your money but they are very reluctant to payout for any reason - this is why 3 out of 4 Mexicans do not have auto insurance, not even the compulsory liability insurance. This is why you should also have adequate medical insurance - if you are in a serious car accident you will find yourself in a deep financial hole very quickly.

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Please read your policy, in spite of what an agent tells you. Mine always had that clause and we would not violate it.

Others have posted about selling cars between states, which is difficult enough, but the inspection of the vehicle‘s ‘pedigree‘ is what will reveal any flaws.

Re-registering in Jalisco is a piece of cake. If you doubt it, walk down the street and jot down a few license plate numbers. You can then go to Recaudadora and renew their registrations and get their Tarjeta. They don‘t even ask for your ID.

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I have been told that even this facilitator was denied car insurance by a prominent insurance company here at Lakeside because they saw that his pedimento was illegal.

I for one did not pay the kind of money we paid to get past the traffic cops or to obtain license plates. I want to be legal and above board on everything I do. I want to be able to have an accident and not be taken to jail for having fake papers; or have my car impounded and maybe never returned because I have fake papers. I don't for one minute believe that should I have an accident that the insurance company nor the government officials involved would give me a pass because I was not trying to deceive as Chillin has suggested. My experience has been just the opposite ... they will look for any reason to not pay (in the case of the car insurance) or to obtain a bribe (in the case of the government officials).

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My understanding of "regularized" is that it is done with UCEM, for about 500p a year contribution. "Chocolates" often do this. Certainly no where near 23, 500p. People that did this and can not find their vin on the National List, we really taken to the cleaners, sad to say. Remember where you are next time and trust in Spencer or Sonia. :(

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I have been told that even this facilitator was denied car insurance by a prominent insurance company here at Lakeside because they saw that his pedimento was illegal.

I for one did not pay the kind of money we paid to get past the traffic cops or to obtain license plates. I want to be legal and above board on everything I do. I want to be able to have an accident and not be taken to jail for having fake papers; or have my car impounded and maybe never returned because I have fake papers. I don't for one minute believe that should I have an accident that the insurance company nor the government officials involved would give me a pass because I was not trying to deceive as Chillin has suggested. My experience has been just the opposite ... they will look for any reason to not pay (in the case of the car insurance) or to obtain a bribe (in the case of the government officials).

Maybe there is some justice if his pedimento is fraudulent. You would think he would have checked that out online.

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I have often been criticized for suggesting that anyone planning to reside in Mexico divest themselves of foreign plated cars and buy a replacement in Mexico. It saves a lot of hassle by transitos, possible confiscation (permanent), and fees plus deposits at the border; the latter often being lost forever.

Newcomers, who will become Residente Temporal, can keep their foreign plated car for their move and an additional few years, but it must go before you become Permanente. Knowing it and planning for it can make life less stressful.

It is pretty obvious that Mexico, a producer of most makes and many models of all cars and trucks for export, as well as domestic consumption, is simply protecting their interests. If the shoe were on the other foot, a Mexican moving to the USA could not keep his car in the USA for more than 30 days after taking up residence. Importing it would be prohibitively expensive for the modifications that would be required, if they were even possible.

Tourists, may continue to drive anywhere.

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Yes, RVGringo, and I was most probably one of those that criticized your advise. I am now paying the price. I really have to learn not to trust as much as I do ... which is really very little now but sometimes I allow myself to be blindsided .... especially when dealing with friends and family.

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I have often been criticized for suggesting that anyone planning to reside in Mexico divest themselves of foreign plated cars and buy a replacement in Mexico.

Less than 4 years ago, you could enter with a foreign plated car, it didn't matter where it was manufactured, and you could keep it as long as you renewed your FM2 or FM3. You would have to import the car, or get rid of it, only when you received Mexican immigrant status. Now the rules have been changed so many times, nobody knows what is happening or going to happen. In an atmosphere of instability and uncertainty, many people like to feel they can "escape" back to their country of origin with a vehicle already registered there.

Luke - have you discussed this with someone in Jalisco who knows State Finance laws? Spenser, by his own admission, does not handle car import papers or people - but he is always up for a class action law suit.

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I have often been criticized for suggesting that anyone planning to reside in Mexico divest themselves of foreign plated cars and buy a replacement in Mexico. It saves a lot of hassle by transitos, possible confiscation (permanent), and fees plus deposits at the border; the latter often being lost forever.

Newcomers, who will become Residente Temporal, can keep their foreign plated car for their move and an additional few years, but it must go before you become Permanente. Knowing it and planning for it can make life less stressful.

It is pretty obvious that Mexico, a producer of most makes and many models of all cars and trucks for export, as well as domestic consumption, is simply protecting their interests. If the shoe were on the other foot, a Mexican moving to the USA could not keep his car in the USA for more than 30 days after taking up residence. Importing it would be prohibitively expensive for the modifications that would be required, if they were even possible.

Tourists, may continue to drive anywhere.

It is very easy to say drive the car back to the US, sell it, and buy one here. Unfortunately many of us entered as FM3 with the understanding that we would be able to keep our cars as long as we retained that status. There was no law forcing us to go inmigrante; we could renew the FM3 every year and reapply every 5th year. The rules were changed on us. Unfortunately not all of us have the resources to buy a car here in Mexico, especially one equivalent to the foreign-plated auto we brought in. I have had my car since it was new. Yes, it is old now but the mileage is reasonable on it and I know every thing that has been done to it. It should last me another 10 years. I supposedly nationalized it through Gary Keeler and now am pretty sure the pedimento is fraudulent. To drive it back to the US at this point I would have to have body work done plus have the expense of driving to Texas and the expense of returning somehow. What I could get out of it combined with what it cost me to "nationalize" it would not have bought me an equivalent car here in Mexico. Now I'm out what I paid Gary so there goes that money. LIving without a car is not really an option. Anybody want to lend me money to buy a car here?

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Her name is Lic. Marta Duenes Pena

Her email is aasecorp (at) live.com

How do you know this is the lady at the airport Gary Keeler has been working with? I've heard that the person he has been working with is simply a clerk at a customs agency there, not a lawyer.

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You are absolutely correct and I feel your pain. We were in a similar situation, but I was in too poor shape after some hospitalizations to drive anywhere, and cannot drive at all any more. So, we put our 1999 SUV away until we were motivated to return to the USA for medical reasons. We got a Retorno Seguro and fresh insurance for the trip and made the move last October. Fortunately, we already had a 2007 smart car, which we bought in Guadalajara that year. Sadly, we could not register it in the USA, since it is a German car, made in France and purchased in Mexico, with pure European specifications; so we sold it before leaving. Now in Tucson, we still drive our 1999 Pathfinder with just 80,000 miles on the odometer, and we also know and like what we have.

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That was a couple of years ago. I think Gary Keeler gave that name on the message board. For all I know she could be a clerk in a customs agency, but this is the name I was given - and she replied to that name and company.

I find it hard to believe they would go to all the trouble to make up a "fake" pedimento. The risks of exposure, forfeiting customs bonds and criminal prosecution are too great. If they are fake, there are still lots of options, but I would be uncomfortable discussing with strangers, and don't really know enough to offer solid advice. For example - keep the car registered in the U.S. in a place like South Dakota. Get the plates too. Insure with one of the big online insurance companies for a "driving vacation in Mexico" (Lewis and Clark, Sanborns?). Keep and ride with the Jalisco plates. If you ever have to return to the U.S., put on the Dakota plates before or after the border. Having a vehicle registered to two different countries would be a very gray area legally. The argument that you feel safer driving with plates in the country you are in would work with me.

The vehicles 'regularized' in Puerto Vallarta was as recommended by a former Chief of Police. I know that is not anywhere a guarantee of conduct, but I have heard that he is a good and honest man. The cost there was just over $1,200 U.S. (if I remember correctly). The customs broker who frauded the Tio corp, took off with something like $30,000 in deposits. That was enough for him to give up his Lic. and broker license and take off to parts unknown.

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