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carphil

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I was told in December that Aduana was not processing any Canadian cars by a Nogales broker.

Does anyone know whether this is true and whether Aduana will process Canadian cars in January?

Also, other than Nogales and Loredo, what other options are there to import my car?

Finally, can a Canadian car be legally sold in the US?

Thanks

Phil carphil10@gmail.com

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Canadian car can not be sold in the US until it is imported and registered in the US.

Aduana has not been nationalizing for many weeks well before December.

They are supposedly will be start to nationalize this month. In the past Canadian cars were nationalized and I see no reason not to continue doing so including me.

Saludos

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You can nationalize NAFTA-made vehicles with no driving to the border including Canadian registered. :D

Happy to help.

Saludos

Sonia

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You can nationalize NAFTA-made vehicles with no driving to the border including Canadian registered. :D

Happy to help.

Saludos

Sonia

Sonia, how are you addressing the 'new' requirement to formally Export the vehicle from the US? Is your process somehow exempt from this?

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Sonia, how are you addressing the 'new' requirement to formally Export the vehicle from the US? Is your process somehow exempt from this?

Rick ... YES. I am told final details by weekend but likely will be same requirements as I had before. If all as planned this means a wide range of years.

The red letters are for those who can not read INCLUDING TROLL STEVE I answered Rick's question... "is your process exempt from this".

ADUANA DOES NOT REQUIRE EXPORTING IN THIS PROCESS AND HAS NOT FOR 19 MONTHS WHILE I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS NOR NOW. BULLY THOSE WHO ISSUE FRAUDULENT PEDIMENTOS. BULLY OTHER WOMEN IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD. 87 CARS COMPLETED AND EVERY ONE IS LEGALLY PLATED. BULLY THE PEOPLE WHO STOLE MONEY FROM UNSUSPECTING PEOPLE WANTING TO NATIONALIZE. BULLY THE BROKERS SUCH AS THE ONE RECOMMENDED IN NOGALES WHO IS BEING INVESTIGATED AND HELPED TO CREATE THIS MESS. BULLY THOSE WHO NATIONALIZED UP TO 50000 CARS A MONTH AND DID NOT EXPORT INCLUDING ALL THE STOLEN VEHICLES AND THOSE TOO NEW.

ADUANA HAS NO ISSUE WITH THE PROCESS I USE... NONE AND I HAVE MET THEM IN PERSON SEVERAL TIMES. IM MY LENGTHY NOTES I TELL CLIENTS IF YOU WANT TO EXPORT FROM U.S. GO AND DO IT. NOT A REQUIREMENT BY ADUANA'S IN THIS PROCESS.

It is no different that a client saying to a coordinator please assist me with registering with SAT and obtaining my lucrativa. The coordinator does so and states: you know you have to also report all income earned in Mexico to the IRS. It is no different than what I do.

Or you say to a landlord, here in Mexico you need to report income as it is the law. My obligation ends.

There is a huge backlog to be completed. I am assured all my NAFTA vehicles including a motorcycle and classics will be done. Three non-NAFTA from long ago which were nationalized but had their documents locked up by Aduana are now getting Chihuahua plates which then will be turned in and everything including Baja de Vehiculos sent to me to get GTO plates. Four non-NAFTA can not be done and 2 have funds returned and two more as soon as titles return.

On a side note, a person just wrote me and was told by a broker at Laredo he needed a MX driver's license even though he is a Permanent Resident. He is not in Mexico to get one and I suggested he check other brokers.

No one should drive to border from the north or from within Mexico to nationalize until they have a broker who fully explains process, time, costs. Once you have your answers then proceed but not before.

Wherever one nationalizes make sure as much as possible your funds are protected. There is a very strong reason I use the proven process I do and I trust no other. Everything I do is through a very large organization. For many reasons I have seen thousands of dollars paid out on behalf of my clients and they were never asked for extra funds.

Remember, many brokers are under investigation so again I work with the same large organization to protect funds and they can be the broker contact.

And, once Aduana has been paid getting your money returned if you change your mind is almost impossible.

saludos

Sonia

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Rick ... yes. I am told final details by weekend but likely will be same requirements as I had before. If all as planned this means a wide range of years.

There is a huge backlog to be completed. I am assured all my NAFTA vehicles including a motorcycle and classics will be done. Three non-NAFTA from long ago which were nationalized but had their documents locked up by Aduana are now getting Chihuahua plates which then will be turned in and everything including Baja de Vehiculos sent to me to get GTO plates. Four non-NAFTA can not be done and 2 have funds returned and two more as soon as titles return.

***************************************

From Sonia's other reply on her process of paper-only imports: Posted Yesterday, 07:28 PM

My process has been the same for 19 months. What I and likely at least a very few others do is we nationalize through an amparo (injunction). In this time I and as noted a few others have legally nationalized cars with no driving to the border. Of the 6 photos required one is in front of an OXXO proving vehicle is in Mexico. Other requirements are scan of title front and back, scan of an utility bill and scan of a MX driver's license front and back. I can nationalize 2009 and older including classics, plus RV's, motorcycles, even boats and most any trailer. At the border normally nothing but cars and maybe only the years Spencer noted.

***************************************

Remember, many brokers are under investigation so again I work with the same large organization to protect funds and they can be the broker contact.

And, once Aduana has been paid getting your money returned if you change your mind is almost impossible.

saludos

Sonia

By using the same process for US-titled cars as the last 19 months, it seems that this process does not meet the US requirements for exports.

" In this time I and as noted a few others have legally nationalized cars with no driving to the border. "

Unfortunately, the "legal nationalization" Sonia describes, only meets Mexican Govt requirements, and does not seem to meet key requirements of US law - law that US citizens must follow or face $$ penalties.

Mexconnect's forums just published a copy of a recent official CBP email explaining CBP policies, as written by a US CBP supervisory official (CBP Officer Program Manager) working at the US-Mexico border, as replies to questions from "Playaboy" (who has been legally taking US cars from Chapala to the US border for sale or processing).

The CBP official email describes some of the potential issues that can cause American citizens legal problems with CBP and Homeland Security. Here is a summary of some of the problematic legal issues for Americans with both permanent imports of American titled cars and with temporary imports of American titled cars brought into Mexico:

  • All US-titled vehicles that are taken outside the USA for more than 12 months are legally considered to be permanently exported from the USA. ~ This means that even TIP - Temporarily Import Permit - vehicles with US titles, must follow US Homeland Security / CBP law.
  • US-titled vehicles that are outside the USA for more than 12 months must be formally exported using the CBP's 3-day inspection and investigation process at the US-Mexico border. These same rules have also applied for years to US vehicles taken into Canada.

  • The only part (of CBP law) that is new is the Census Bureau filing requirements regardless of dollar value and destination.

  • The US CBP acknowledges that the US Homeland Security system for tracking vehicles and exporting vehicles was previously not well-coordinated with Mexico's import processes, but Homeland Security and Mexico have changed their systems to work together:

  • Homeland Security now has electronic databases in place to track the movements of US-titled cars being taken out of the USA,

    and

  • Now, Mexico's Aduana is sending US Homeland Security the electronic records of the US vehicles that are being brought into Mexico.

  • This means that US Homeland Security databases and CBP now have the capability to track the "paper only" imports like Sonia does of US-titled vehicles.

  • Since Sonia's and other's "paper only" processes that have no drives to the border, include our vehicle VINs and our US passport information, this gives CBP the tools to easily find, prosecute and penalize Americans who break US CBP / Homeland Security law. *sigh*

Not much good news here for US citizens with TIP cars that have been in Mexico for more than 12 months, nor for US citizens who have gotten 'paper-only" imports from inside Mexico, as US Homeland Security begins to enforce the laws they've had on the books for years,

This means that the things we used, that worked in the past, are now subject to prosecution. (just like what has happened in Mexico - shifting enforcement of the rules) *bleah*

The next post in this thread has the long post from Mexconnect that describes the details of US Homeland Security's policies, with references.

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This post documents the previous Chapala.com post summarizing how CBP's rules and new capabilities affect American citizens bringing their US-titled cars into Mexico for either Temporary Import (TIP) cars and for Permanent Import ("legalization"), especially as affects people doing "paper-only' imports without taking their cars to the US border for 3-day CBP inspections.

Below is a copy of the Mexconnect post with all the details from Homeland Security / CBP about US law on Americans taking their US-titled vehicles into Mexico.

The author of this post is Playaboy, who has been legally taking US vehicles from the Chapala area to the US-Mexico border, for legal sales or legal imports.

http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=203928;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

********************************

(Playaboy wrote:)

First off, I am going to sprinkle this post with links to past threads, kinda of like a trip down memory lane. The links will be to my post (search function) but you should re-read the whole threads. Try to filter out the usual attacks and pay attention to the facts.

I guess I am also a facilitator. http://www.mexconnect.com/...ring=mission;#203897

I have been following these car issues since the INM changes altered the LOOPHOLE gringos enjoyed. What caught my attention was the amount of FRAUD and money ripoffs. TIO Corp, an attorney in Ajijic, Mr UC in Chetumal, the mess at the GDL airport and many more around the country.

Sonia/Lovingmexico has been promoting their service from almost the beginning of this mess. 3,500,000 peso ($250,000 USD), 87 vehicles, even non-nafta, motorhomes, motorcycles, any year, any make. Now that is impressive. I have not read or heard of anyone losing their money. Everyone of her clients seems to get exactly what she advertises, a pedimiento that checks out on the government website, and a factura. Everybody takes that paperwork and gets plates. Has anybody heard any different? Obviously, Sonia has a system that works getting a car nationalized and legal to drive in Mexico.


Here is where it gets tricky. If you are from the “Land of the Free” (Americans) you are required, by federal law, to export your personal “used self propelled vehicle” or USPV. If you virtually import without going to the border, Uncle Sam still requires the car be exported. That requires a trip to the border. Then you have to explain to the Captain of the POE why you didn’t follow normal procedures. So folks, what do you save? You don’t save money, you don’t save time virtually importing. In fact it costs you more.

I know, a bunch of you are screaming COMMERCE, COMMERCE, and COMMERCE!!!! Sorry but the CBP, aka border cops don’t see it that way. They are enforcing the laws and regulations pertaining to USPV that are on the books. There are Dept of Commerce regs, Census regs, and probably many more regs that I don’t know. We Americans know that there are volumes and volumes of laws and regulations about everything in life. You could probably fill a large view home, Lakeside, with all the law books regulating the border.

How does CBP enforce this? I wouldn’t want to test them; Big Brother is getting very good. I have crossed the border over 25 times in the last year or so. By air and land, driving many different autos or walking. Everything I did was being tracked. I knew by the questions the officers asked me.

The following is one of the email exchanges between a CBP senior manager and myself last month.

===================================================

(From Playaboy to the US CBP)

Hi ***** ,

Are you referring to Exporting a Motor Vehicle | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

C:%5CDOCUME~1%5CBarry%5CLOCALS~1%5CTemp%



Exporting a Motor Vehicle | U.S. Customs and Border Prot...
Interpretation and Application of 19 CFR Part 192 Section 192.1 DefinitionsThe following are general definitions for the purposes of CFR 192.2: Certified. "Cer...

View on www.cbp.gov

Preview by Yahoo

Those regulations on the CBP website need to be a little clearer and in regular English, not trade speak. Most expats don't believe it applies to them because it is personal vehicle and not business related. By not exporting it might save them some money but it opens up a greater chance for the large amount frauds occurring.

One other thing, ------- stated that export should be filed if the vehicle is out of the USA for more than 12 months. No expats in Mexico have ever heard or read that anywhere. Is this still the case? It sure doesn't jive with the new Mexican regulations.
=========================================

The following is her (CBP official's) response.

Yes, I am referring to those regulations.

I do understand that our regulations do not jive well with the Mexican regulations but we cannot help that. CBP regulations are CBP regulations and need to be followed.

The 12 month period ----- mentioned is under Census regulations and it is CBP’s responsibility to enforce Census regulations among others too.

I do understand your frustrations and you seem very passionate in wanting to help those exporting their vehicles into Mexico but CBP has had these regulations for years.

The only part that is new is the Census filing requirements regardless of dollar value and destination. What Mexico is experience now, due to the Mexican Customs changes, is no different to what has been going on for years in Canada. Same CBP regulations and Mexico is just adopting what Canada already has for regulations.

If you don’t export your USPV out of the US and import into Canada you cannot drive it unless it is registered/plated in Canada. The only way to register that car is by showing import paperwork from Canada Customs. If the exporter does not have export/import paperwork then he/she has to drive that vehicle back to the US and start the export process with CBP.

We are trying our best to get you information to help and we do understand it can be very stressful. Unfortunately, we have other priorities that do trump your request but we are trying. I really hope to have this resolved by New Years. Thank you for being patient.

Thank you,
CBP Officer Program Manager
Export Control Division
Cargo and Conveyance Security
U.S. Customs and Border Protection
Office of Field Operations

Basically this is how the export process works.
Export info is transmitted electronically (required) to US Census/CBP. Data regarding Vehicle, shipper, receiver, destination, etc. is audited then vehicle is designated export & subject to inspection by CBP. Exporter, or designated carrier, is responsible for moving vehicle across border.

Info is not purged from the system; it remains in US Census data bank. Exporters that circumvent the process certainly can continue to move vehicles into Mexico, but legalization/registration is prohibited, at least at the federal level.

=============================================

(Playaboy's Mexconnect post continues)

CBP and Census are slowly putting together an official “release?” or something I can post and will also be posted on a USA government web site. I am hoping that in the next 30 days that I will be able to share a name and phone contact with everyone. The above officer sent a pamphlet I am sharing again.

The Census Bureau is in the process of making one that say Mexico instead of Canada. It is attached below.

Here are some (Mexconnect) links to past (Mexconnect) posts
A very well written and complete personal example of the whole process at the border from June 2013 (read the facts not the attacks) BTW Lovingmexico/Sonia have yet to understand the process at the border; http://www.mexconnect.com/..._latest_reply;so=ASC

Here's another from July 2013, I had to ask 3 times, posts #13, 22, and 25, to finally get an answer. http://www.mexconnect.com/..._latest_reply;so=ASC

Here a recent threads of importing when the border was supposedly back up or closed that took less than a day. http://www.mexconnect.com/...?post=202708;#202708

Here is my personal export/import story http://www.insidelakeside.com/...i-m-in-mexico#149725

There are a tremendous amount of past posts on Mexconnect where folks successfully processed their vehicles at the border quickly, easily and cheaply. Search them out.

Facilitators play on your anxieties and fears. Your car won’t make it to the border. I am too old to drive that far. It is dangerous (true) driving in the border regions. I don’t want to deal with all the corrupt cops asking for bribes on the highways. They offer solutions to fears. But they don’t keep you totally in compliance with all the laws.

Here is my suggestion for everyone that needs to get their vehicle legal. I would wait 3 to 4 weeks for things to settle down. They will settle down. You can not virtually import any faster anyway. There are many recommendations for agents at the border from TX to CA. Call them, discuss the requirements and your vehicle and get a quote. Then drive to the border, and that agent will do all the rest of the work.

I am just the messenger. I not making money for my research efforts. I make no money recommending you go to the border. I am just suggesting the safest, legal way to nationalize.
============================================

end of Mexconnect post on US Homeland Security / CBP's rules on taking US-titled vehicles into Mexico.

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Hey Chillin,

chill ?

Re claims of hijacking the thread:

Rick S. asked a question about the open issue of how "paper-only" imports inside Mexico

can meet Homeland Security and CBP and US Census Bureau laws.

Sonia, how are you addressing the 'new' requirement to formally Export the vehicle from the US? Is your process somehow exempt from this?

I have trouble seeing how RickS's interest is hijacking the thread as Sonia continues to explain in this thread of how her process is fully legal, (when Sonia's and other's processes do not meet the US legal requirements for US citizens).

Why are you highjacking this thread about Canadian cars with endless irrelevant blather about the CBP? What I am curious about though - did you "export" your wife's car?

.. " ...endless irrelevant blather about the CBP?...

Since a regional CBP Program Manager has written about a new twist - that any Temporary Import Permit car, outside the USA for more than 12 months are officially legally required to be formally exported from the USA , under Homeland Security, CBP, and Census rules and law - then this new big change in enforcement seems important.`

This shift in enforcement of US laws does not seem like endless irrelevant blather about the CBP - since 10,000's of American expats are apparently at risk of US federal prosecutions and fines, unless they stop at the US border for 3 days, jump through all the CBP paperwork hoops, and formally export their car from the USA.

When we have exported our US car from the USA, as a TIP temporary car in Mexico, had the US govt cancel our US title, then just what hassles are there to bring that TIP temporary car back into the USA later ?

- and in the future, as Mexico Aduana starts sending our expat-Aduana permit information to the US CBP, as electronic records of any and all (?) TIP cars, plus Mexican records for all permanently import cars of American expats coming into Mexico, it could be a real game changer for American who don't want to pay $100's in fines and Federal Homeland Security hassles if/when CBP or immigration start cross checking our electronic records for our passports and VINs for compliance with the CBP/Census Bureau Export law..

Is it endless irrelevant blather about the CBP to provide the latest information about how to bring our cars into Mexico smoothly, without breaking US law?

Finally, re Chillin's personal imaginings and fantasies about my wife and her car:

" did you "export" your wife's car? "

My wife drives a car that was originally purchased in Mexico, has lived its entire life in Mexico, is legally plated here, so, other than trying to make some personal smear attack on me or my wife, as prohibited by this site's rules, then there's no factual reason to explain Chillin's peculiar hostile misplaced questions.

These big changes in CBP's announced intentions to start enforcing the laws sure seems worth reporting.

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Then start a new thread to discuss the "endless irrelevant blather about the CBP" concerning the enforcement of the existing laws regarding the export of US cars out of the US . This thread was started by the OP to discuss the process and issues of importing Canadian cars and nationalizing them in Mexico.

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Does this kickstart a requirement for proof of income again?

Yes

Jan 14, 2015 5:10 pm. I just got off the phone to a broker at Laredo and he is not exporting.

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Sure, this stuff can be done really easily if we ignore the laws.

Let's hope that the customers with US cars who used Sonia's and other "facilitators" processes that did not meet US export requirements, will not be zinged for $500 dollar federal penalties.

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Stevie,

When you discover an expat that has been fined or imprisoned for lack of exporting correctly, and we all can verify that fact, then come back and gloat. Until then, we really don't see your continued interest in this topic here at Lakeside. Stay where you have a lot of loving friends and family. You have had your say, now give it a rest. Leave us in peace to pay our fines and do our time.

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I called the agency noted below.

Leave car at border for 3 weeks.
You need an IFE (Mexican Citizen)

Stolen Report and exported from US

Expats have no IFE and therefore can not import.

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I called the agency noted below.

Leave car at border for 3 weeks.

You need an IFE (Mexican Citizen)

Stolen Report and exported from US

Expats have no IFE and therefore can not import.

http://www.grupo-mca.com

Are you saying that ex-pats can't import their vehicles?
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Do yourselves a big favor, folks. Forget about importing cars to Mexico. Really not worth the hassle.

I have a 2005 Tacoma with less than 60k miles on it,it's definitely a hassle but in my case it's probably worth it.
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But it's not really a hassle at all - just not cheap, not matter what method you choose. You can spend 4.5 years here, then have to nationalize.

If you are really afraid of the U.S. Census boogeyman that's up to you. Either don't re-enter the U.S. with your now Mexican, originally U.S. car, or accept the facts that this one of many policies of U.S. government which is structurally and politically unenforceable. There are many, many examples where governments everywhere announce "laws" and "penalties" which are actually disinformation. The U.S. Census Bureau is already a prime example:

http://www.wnd.com/2007/11/44542/

The export laws are only enforceable if the U.S. starts stopping all vehicles leaving the U.S., including temporaries and tourists, and forcing them to file export papers - not going to happen - ever. Mexico would have a political meltdown if the U.S. began to force all vehicles destined to Mexico to spend three days in a border town. The only other way is if Mexican customs worked together with U.S. Census - not going to happen - ever - what is the benefit to Mexico? Then there is the logistics issue - how can they go from exporting 100,000 vehicles to 1,000,000 vehicles per year?

recently got an email from CBP in a response to question about whether retired Americans, using their originally U.S. plated vehicle, strictly for pleasure, were to "export" their vehicles. I wrote in a simple, respectful way. The supervisor wrote a return email -TWO AND A HALF MONTHS later that he apologized for the delay, that they were very busy. He did not answer the question, but pointed out that since he had actually replied, he would would mark this enquiry as RESOLVED. "Mission Accomplished", if I still need an answer two months from now, please enquire again!?!?!? This is your tax dollars at work, folks, do you think the U.S. Census bureau is going to successfully introduce a whole new layer of paperwork? If so, you are better off following the U.F.O. thread!

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I have a 2005 Tacoma with less than 60k miles on it,it's definitely a hassle but in my case it's probably worth it.

I feel your pain. I had to get rid of a 2006 Honda CRV EXL in perfect condition with less than 50K miles on it.

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I feel your pain. I had to get rid of a 2006 Honda CRV EXL in perfect condition with less than 50K miles on it.

But wasn't yours a J car,mine was manufactured in California.
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