Non-NAFTA Nationalized

[Sonia]

I reviewed a pedimento from a newer non-NAFTA vehicle from lakeside that was nationalized. It has taken about 2 weeks but through my contacts Aduana checked out the pedimento. According to Aduana, the pedimento is fake and the word used by Aduana is it is a "clone". It is from another vehicle.

Based on my information nationalizing a newer non-NAFTA vehicle at this time is not legally possible. Older non-NAFTA should be able to be nationalized soon.

Also note, if someone nationalizes your vehicle and the package includes plates I would not trust the process. In every state, based on my knowledge, when a vehicle is nationalized it needs to be physically inspected before registration and plates can be issued.

Sonia

[desertdave]

Sonia

You said older non-NAFTA vehicles should be able to be nationalized "soon". I have a 2005 Toyota that is a J car. Must go permanente in July 2015. What in your opinion are my chances of being able to nationalize before then? Also, what is this info based on? Thanks.

[Sonia]

Sonia

You said older non-NAFTA vehicles should be able to be nationalized "soon". I have a 2005 Toyota that is a J car. Must go permanente in July 2015. What in your opinion are my chances of being able to nationalize before then? Also, what is this info based on? Thanks.

Dave I am told hopefully start non-NAFTA later this month. This will be through the state of Sonora but no driving required. It will be a slow process when it starts. I have done it before and totally legal but again slow. 2005 will be in the years allowed. My information is based on my direct contact with a person who talks with and meets with Aduana often including a major meeting last week in Mexico City with SAT / Aduana.

Sorry, this thread should have been under the CUSTOMS section.

[cbviajero]

Deleted by poster.

[Sonia]

For non-NAFTA vehicles only in the state of Chihuahua was it possible to nationalize these vehicles. Only 2006 and older were allowed to be processed. In approx early March the only Aduana office which processed non-NAFTA cars was literally closed and the door on the office locked. I completed some nn-NAFTA vehicles. The others I had started to this day have all their documents locked inside. I write this implying that anyone who had a non-NAFTA vehicle nationalized in past few months would have a hard time convincing me that their non-NAFTA vehicle was legally nationalized let alone ones newer than 2006.

Sedona state is to allow non-NAFTA nationalizing soon but not yet.

Your vehicle can be on REPUVE as is the car I refer to above because the "nationalizing" was done through an Aduana employee who did so illegally. And, I stress your car can not be nationalized in Chihuahua and you were give Jalisco plates without your vehicle having a physical inspection.

I nationalize through a man who was with Aduana in a senior position for 13 years. He knows the processes and people at Aduana very well. I communicate with him almos daily.

In summary, be very cautious as per my first post on this subject.

Sonia

[snowyco]

For non-NAFTA vehicles only in the state of Chihuahua was it possible to nationalize these vehicles. Only 2006 and older were allowed to be processed. In approx early March the only Aduana office which processed non-NAFTA cars was literally closed and the door on the office locked. I completed some nn-NAFTA vehicles. The others I had started to this day have all their documents locked inside. ...

How many people's vehicles are still stuck with payments made, but no pedimentos and lost documents for these cars you promised to nationalize?

[belleza]

I reviewed a pedimento from a newer non-NAFTA vehicle from lakeside that was nationalized. It has taken about 2 weeks but through my contacts Aduana checked out the pedimento. According to Aduana, the pedimento is fake and the word used by Aduana is it is a "clone". It is from another vehicle.

Based on my information nationalizing a newer non-NAFTA vehicle at this time is not legally possible. Older non-NAFTA should be able to be nationalized soon.

Also note, if someone nationalizes your vehicle and the package includes plates I would not trust the process. In every state, based on my knowledge, when a vehicle is nationalized it needs to be physically inspected before registration and plates can be issued.

Sonia

Thank you for that information. It is very worrisome for those who have supposedly nationalized locally and received papers and license plates without taking car for inspection. I hope that this thread will be continued as I suspect there are quite a few in that predicament.

[cbviajero]

I recently spoke with 3 different established customs brokers at the Guadalajara airport,they all told me that they were no longer doing "virtual"nationalizations and that the only legal way to nationalize was by having it done at the border.

I appreciated their honesty.

I would be very wary of using the services of"facilitators"who claim to still be able to do virtual nationalizations.

[Sonia]

As to nationalizing virtually. Well I have been doing this for 17 months and this week received 3 more pedimentos. Following a meeting last week with Aduana / SAT and UCD staff in Mexico City we do continue nationalizing. Viva Mexico. Same persons follow me around, bullying and trying to discredit me on various web boards while hiding behind a screen name , and as I noted 17 months later and not one person lost money. Not one person had illegal documents. Every person has received their state plates and registration. :-)

I have identified fraud and false documents in this geographical area and yet the same two or three worry more about me than the issue I have identified at the request of a person on this board.

What may be not help matters is now that Aduana has seen what they identify as illegal, cloned document the car owners may loose not only their money which was excessive but also their vehicle or worse. I see on here, a person nationalized a 2010 non-NAFTA car virtually in past 3 weeks meaning it is still happening contrary to above.

If anyone retains Spencer happy to give Spencer the name of the person who worked with Aduana in identifying this problem.

[slainte39]

.....and all we have is.....your word for it.

[Joco]

.....and all we have is.....your word for it.

Instead of being insulting why not ask her for references of people Lakeside who have used her services? That way you have someone else's word. If Sonia has let you down or did not perform as you think she should, you can write that as long as it is truthful but you do not need to imply she is a liar especially if you have no bases to write that.

[cbviajero]

Instead of being insulting why not ask her for references of people Lakeside who have used her services?

Actually,there was a recent thread on another forum where she also advertises asking for references from clients who had used her services,after two weeks without a single reference being posted the thread was closed..

[snowyco]

Hopefully, everyone has gotten either pedimentos, or gotten their documents and money back.

As to nationalizing virtually. Well I have been doing this for 17 months and this week received 3 more pedimentos. Following a meeting last week with Aduana / SAT and UCD staff in Mexico City we do continue nationalizing. Viva Mexico. Same persons follow me around, bullying and trying to discredit me on various web boards while hiding behind a screen name , and as I noted 17 months later and not one person lost money. Not one person had illegal documents. Every person has received their state plates and registration. :-)

I'm really confused. In one post earlier today, you wrote that you sent in customers' auto documents to the border, and that those papers and nationalization applications have been "locked up" for months:

Posted Today, 09:29 AM

Sonia, on 05 Nov 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

For non-NAFTA vehicles only in the state of Chihuahua was it possible to nationalize these vehicles. Only 2006 and older were allowed to be processed. In approx early March the only Aduana office which processed non-NAFTA cars was literally closed and the door on the office locked.

I completed some nn-NAFTA vehicles. The others I had started to this day have all their documents locked inside. ...

How many people's vehicles are still stuck with you accepting payments, but no pedimentos and lost documents for these cars promised to nationalize?

[Joco]

Actually,there was a recent thread on another forum where she also advertises asking for references from clients who had used her services,after two weeks without a single reference being posted the thread was closed..

She has sent me her references. She will do it in a PM with the permission of the reference. Most people do not want their names and contact information being listed on a forum without their permission. Because someone used her services that does not mean he can be used in advertising.

[RCEHM]

I don't understand why Sonia continues to offer info on legally importing vehicles into Mexico when some of you on this board distrust and insult her. My Canadian vehicle was legalized by Sonia, vitually in 2013, and there was never a problem. My pedimento is legal, my vehicle is registered on the www.repuve.com.mx website and my car is plated and insured. And I live in a State other than Jalisco or SMA. Give Sonia a break - she is offering good advice - she is not asking you to legalize your car with her. Many want something for nothing so take her free advice but leave her alone.

[Intercasa]

We have done plates for people where Sonia has nationalized them and they did show up in REPUVE and we got their plates with no problems. Many locals are reporting problems with nationalization people who have disappeared with their money or who have gone on extended vacations, be careful, things seem to be much harder right now than they have been in quite a while.

[belleza]

How long does it usually take for a vin # with Mexican plates to show up on REPUVE?

[Sonia]

How long does it usually take for a vin # with Mexican plates to show up on REPUVE?

A VIN should show up within a week. But that is not a guarantee. In the case of the vehicle in my opening post shows up on REPUVE. This means someone at Aduana was involved in the fraud to have it registered there. However, that vehicle on the pedimento has an error in one of the two VIN's which should have been the same Also, the process was started in February but the pedimento is dated January! Another part I noted was the fee to nationalize was extremely high.

Here is another place one checks a pedimento but the VIN option on this web site does not work. But rather you fill in the options on left side.

http://www.aduanas.sat.gob.mx/soianet/oia_consultarap_cep.aspx

_{A non-NAFTA vehicle when they can be nationalized requires the original title be sent to Chihuahua; the vehicle nationalized in the name of a Mexican national; Once nationalized that person buys Chihuahua plates and turns them in a day or so later. When pates are turned in a Baja de vehiculos is issued by Chihuahua. The title, Baja etc are returned to the actual car owner say in Ajijic. The car owner then goes to have the vehicle inspected, stolen vehicle report issued and provides documents (typically but varies between states: an utility bill, visa, Baja, title, passport, MX driver's license) to obtain state plates and registration. Any and all missed steps raises a flag. The part in blue is what one does when any vehicle is nationalized or usually when you buy a car from another state and register it in your home state as a new Federal law requires transferring a vehicle ownership from one state to another to have a Baja etc.}

And when suspicious the vehicle owner asks the person providing the service many questions. In this case many more flags.

And, for a final check this pedimento was scanned, emailed to me and sent to the head of UCD for GTO state (Ramiro worked for Aduana for 13 years) who then forwarded the scanned pedimento to Aduana and a person trusted there. Again yesterday, he called me to state that Aduana was adamant the pedimento was cloned from a pedimento of another vehicle.

In case one is wondering, once you have a pedimento most insurance companies will provide insurance before having your state plates.

FYI, Aduana / SAT does not even trust many brokers and their own employees after the investigation noted in newspapers in July. If you drove today to Nogales for example to nationalize, you will be there up to 5 days. All documents are scanned and sent to the only Aduana office they trust in effect making it also a virtual process. There are very few border crossing that actually nationalize vehicles and now most under review. In a typical month 50,000 vehicles are nationalized and most are commercial businesses with transports of vehicles from the US. Relatively few are the vehicles of individuals including expats.

For those who have written privately and on here in support, a sincere thank you.

saludos

Sonia

[Sonia]

As to nationalizing NAFTA cars at the border, still confusion. Here is an email from a client which I received minutes ago:

Dear Sonia,

We just got back from Texas where we bought a pick-up truck and traded in our white Mercury.

We waited 21 days for the Title. We tried to nationalize at the border, but there is tremendous confusion

with the shipping agents, US customs border patrol, and Aduana (We were at Matamoros). Meanwhile the

system is clogged with dozens of old cars being towed to the Aduana for importing to Mexico.

Finally, we said "Forget it." And we got a temporary importacion sticker to bring the truck to San Miguel. We just got back yesterday.

We were gone 32 days, trying to get this done.

And this just posted on the FB page called "On The Road in Mexico":

"If you are importing your vehicle because you have permanent residency, DON'T use Grupo Cuevas. We did. It was an unpleasant process and cost a fortune. Then, when we got to Nayarit to get our plates, we found that the fractura for our truck was produced years ago and was for a red Silverado. We have a grey Silverado. Wrong fractura. Beside that, there was no fractura or ownership document with our trailer papers at all! So now, we have to go to a notario to get bonded. And, we found stapled to our papers the fractura from someone else's 4 wheeler. That poor soul is most likely in some hell or limbo without it. Now what?

I don't know whether it's all a mistake, incompetence or fraud. Most likely a bit of all. Are we even in the system after using a "reputable" import company and paying over $2400 CASH!"

I find it odd that no one wants to know who was nationalizing the illegal non-NAFTA vehicles. For those truly interested in nationalizing, as some of you are and have written me, I have a long set of notes that explains the process and numerous referrals including 4 at lakeside plus Spencer whom I know personally and who has helped my clients with Jalisco plates.

In summary, as Spencer noted and I have provided, nationalizing is not always easy or guaranteed and always seek references and ask lots of questions. Make sure your money is protected. I have the backing of an organization of 800,000 members. That organization, when Aduana raised rates by 2000 pesos for Canadian vehicles as registration is different than US cars, they paid for those in progress. And, when Aduana asked for 500 pesos more last week for all the vehicles in progress, they paid. They have paid large sums on behalf of their clients and mine. No one has lost their funds and so I will take slow and guaranteed vs the other options. I simply informed by this thread of a problem with non-NAFTA vehicles through your local airport. I can not even nationalize non-NAFTA at this time so it has no consequences to me.

[snowyco]

What is your interest in this matter? Are you the watchdog here too? Maybe you just enjoy "bashing" people. She has not asked for your business, so if you don't trusrt her, then le3ave her to those of us who do.Get some personal experience so you have a valid talking point.

Rather than imagining and writing falsehoods, my personal experience is importing a pickup truck and a sedan into Mexico, taking 2 different friends cars to the border to be sold (resolving their import problems), and directly helping 4 other friends get their imported vehicle problems resolved => 10 vehicles dealt with.

My other interest?

Since I still have 4 additional friends with imported vehicle problems, mired in the Aduana "paper-only" system that Sonia is also having problems with. No mysteries here: I'm just trying to keep track of what works and what's legal and what is not working, to help some good friends.

Sonia's earlier post says that some of her vehicle imports are not working, having some of her applications stuck, locked in Aduana offices for the past 6 months.

Let's stick with reality and facts, and drop the personal sniping.

What works? What's legal?

For at least 10 years, the US CBP has required that American titled vehicles be formally exported from the USA, using the CBP car inspection 3 day process for all US vehicles, before they are legal to import into Mexico.

Sonia's past imports of US vehicles has skipped this US mandatory step, making her prior imports of American vehicles less than legal.

Is it wrong to ask how many cars are stuck in Aduana's processes?

As Sonia continues to tell us how other competitor's processes are illegal: Is it wrong to ask if a process is fully legal?

Does Sonia's current process follow US law?

[slainte39]

Why does anyone try so hard to convince posters on several boards that "their" process for handling nationalization is AOK when everything about this whole program seems as clear as mud. Any sane person would avoid this avenue of having transportation like the plague. If things don't stay legal, as guaranteed, foreigners will be the first to suffer government reprisals.

Stay temporary or buy a Mexican plated vehicle.

[cooper]

Rather than imagining and writing falsehoods, my personal experience is importing a pickup truck and a sedan into Mexico, taking 2 different friends cars to the border to be sold (resolving their import problems), and directly helping 4 other friends get their imported vehicle problems resolved => 10 vehicles dealt with.

My other interest?

Since I still have 4 additional friends with imported vehicle problems, mired in the Aduana "paper-only" system that Sonia is also having problems with. No mysteries here: I'm just trying to keep track of what works and what's legal and what is not working, to help some good friends.

Sonia's earlier post says that some of her vehicle imports are not working, having some of her applications stuck, locked in Aduana offices for the past 6 months.

Let's stick with reality and facts, and drop the personal sniping.

What works? What's legal?

For at least 10 years, the US CBP has required that American titled vehicles be formally exported from the USA, using the CBP car inspection 3 day process for all US vehicles, before they are legal to import into Mexico.

Sonia's past imports of US vehicles has skipped this US mandatory step, making her prior imports of American vehicles less than legal.

Is it wrong to ask how many cars are stuck in Aduana's processes?

As Sonia continues to tell us how other competitor's processes are illegal: Is it wrong to ask if a process is fully legal?

Does Sonia's current process follow US law?

By not having properly exported the vehicles thru CBP does not mean her imports were less than legal. Mexico until very recently did not require proof of legal exportation in order to import that vehicle into this country. And Sonia is not bound by any American law in her import business. She must comply solely with Mexican law.

[snowyco]

By not having properly exported the vehicles thru CBP does not mean her imports were less than legal. Mexico until very recently did not require proof of legal exportation in order to import that vehicle into this country. And Sonia is not bound by any American law in her import business. She must comply solely with Mexican law.

Very true.

But Sonia's past promises included doing everything needed to have a fully legal import.

Did all of the Americans who used Sonia's services intend to break US law?

Did all of the Americans who used Sonia's services agree to break US law?

Did the American clients choose to put themselves at risk of US federal fines if the USA finds out they broke US Customs law?

Good professionals working on legal issues .... dot all the "i's" and cross the "t's".

Would any of us choose a lawyer who only knows ½ of our legal obligations, and who only files ½ of the required forms, in required things like completing our taxes, or importing our car?

Most people prefer using professionals who know all the laws and legal requirements that we are required to follow,

and we don't choose paths that lead to unexpected penalties if we are caught.

[cbviajero]

Mexico until very recently did not require proof of legal exportation in order to import that vehicle into this country.

Ahi esta el detalle.

Now they apparently do,which is why I'm sceptical about the legitimacy of the virtual nationalizations currently being promoted by "facilitators",they might have been legitimate/valid in the past but are they still?

[cooper]

The responsibilty of legally exporting a vehicle lies with the owner of the vehicle. The facilitator deals with Mexican requirements.

Snowyco, you claim to have personally imported 2 vehicles and assisted with several others. Did you properly export them from the US? Did you advise those you assisted to do so?

I have imported vehicles 100% legally. The fact that I didn't legally export them from the US has no bearing whatsoever on their legal importation into Mexico. Mexico sets the requirements for legally importing a vehicle into this country. The US has nothing to do with it. Just as Mexico has no say on US requifements for exporting a vehicle.