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Yes, and thank you for sharing your experience.

Years ago I had extensive services with Garcia over six months. He even told me the charges were so much higher there than other places because he had to get my history on his computer.
Within a year he could find no record of my ever having been there! I returned three times, insisting on a copy my records. Never found!
So there u have it. Different people, different experiences.

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This has not been my experience with Dr. Garcia, nor of several of my friends.  Same can be said of Dr. Leon and Dr. Theresa in Joco.

Jajaja... for that is my take on the Drs in the states...

But you see here there is a population that benefits not just from those who practice traditional medicine,

but also holistic medicine...

and dare I say, this is a community of open minded (more than in the states) who have learned what works (again, more so than those in the states) for intestinal traveler's type of stomach ailments.

So I'd have to be a fool to not ask these questions of a community which has more experience than I do in this area!

NOB I have shared what I know of health (juicing/grain free/sups) with friends and acquaintances. I really have enjoyed when a friend will turn to me and tell me how much better they feel as a result of what I have shared/guided them on.

It's much like anything else... You listen, try new things, and then if it works (or doesn't), others can benefit from your experience.

Why should someone endure an unnecessary assault of their system, if for example 5 people have had a seriously adverse response to something like Vermox?

SO YES... This web board is a valuable resource of information, and may even yield friendships.

I appreciate your sentiments about the medical community. I too have experienced that state of disillusionment... ouch. I have also run across a few good Doctors in that process. I gather that there are a few good Drs here too, be it MD or MD/holistic!

Thanks for your response.

Portimom get real! Nobody has the right answers to your question. Here in Mexico the answer lies with who you trust and then it may not be right. My experience has been that it is hard to find a doctor with a good conscience. They are looking for a paycheck like the rest of the population.

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This thread has a lot of focus on amoebas, but the physicians we know who recommend taking an anti-parasite prophylactic treatment every 6 months or once a year instead describe worm infestations and asymptomatic sub-clinical salmonella infections (no symptoms) as the primary reasons for the benefits of regular treatments.

A good CDC study working with hospitals and universities across Mexico found that most Mexican children (54%) and Mexican meat has salmonella. The 54% of children with on-going/endemic salmonella did not have symptoms. The same goes for the 30% of Mexicans with worms. http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/14/3/pdfs/07-1057.pdf

It's a really distasteful topic, but know that most humans do not wash their hands sufficiently well after defecating to remove the worm eggs and salmonella. It takes a full 20 seconds of vigorous scrubbing with soapy suds to have a decent chance of actually cleaning your hands. 20 seconds is about the time it takes to whistle Yankee Doodle twice.

Try it next time you wash your hands.

Do you continue scrubbing for 2 Yankee Doodles?

This means that food handlers contaminate their knives, cutting boards, handles on fridges, knobs on stoves, the sink handles, the door handles of bathrooms, and the handle on the hinadora. Once touched, it takes a spray of dilute bleach to kill both the salmonella (think typhoid), and worm eggs.

When we turn our focus on the 2 major GI parasitic infestations in Mexico, Salmonella and worms, and knowing that most people with them HAVE NO SYMPTOMS, then taking the antiparasite meds every 6 months or once a year actually makes rational sense .

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Realities of Amoeba Infestations:

Know that 4 decades of studies show a 2 pill course of antibiotics simply does not work on amoebas.

Also know that the drugs mentioned above, taken alone, simply do not work on amoebas.

Then realize: It takes at least 10 days of Diloxanide furoate antibiotic treatments to have a chance of effectively treating amoebic infestations. Still, even after 10 days of metronidazole (Flagyl) amoeba treatments, as many as 40% of patients still test positive for amoebas, which means the patient has to continue the Diloxanide furoate treatment.

  • Diloxanide furoate is the drug of choice for asymptomatic patients with E. histolytica cysts in the faeces (metronidazole and tinidazole are relatively ineffective).
  • Metronidazole is the first choice for treatment of acute invasive amoebic dysentery. Tinidazole is also effective for acute amoebic dysentery.
  • Treatment with metronidazole or tinidazole is followed by a 10-day course of diloxanide furoate to destroy any amoebae in the gut.
  • Diloxanide furoate is also given as a 10-day course for chronic infections.

http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/amoebiasis-pro

and

http://www.drugs.com/health-guide/gastrointestinal-amebiasis.html

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amoebas in Mexico are somewhat resistant to antibiotics and you need a couple week treatment before getting ridd¿ off them meanwhile Giardia is somewhat resistant to antibiotics in Africa and are very tough to get

rid off if you contacted it over there.

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Thank you for this information...

Tough to take preventive steps which cover.

Wondering if our immune systems build over time...

Thanks again on sharing!

This thread has a lot of focus on amoebas, but the physicians we know who recommend taking an anti-parasite prophylactic treatment every 6 months or once a year instead describe worm infestations and asymptomatic sub-clinical salmonella infections (no symptoms) as the primary reasons for the benefits of regular treatments.

A good CDC study working with hospitals and universities across Mexico found that most Mexican children (54%) and Mexican meat has salmonella. The 54% of children with on-going/endemic salmonella did not have symptoms. The same goes for the 30% of Mexicans with worms.

It's a really distasteful topic, but know that most humans do not wash their hands sufficiently well after defecating to remove the worm eggs and salmonella. It takes a full 20 seconds of vigorous scrubbing with soapy suds to have a decent chance of actually cleaning your hands. 20 seconds is about the time it takes to whistle Yankee Doodle twice.

Try it next time you wash your hands.

Do you continue scrubbing for 2 Yankee Doodles?

This means that food handlers contaminate their knives, cutting boards, handles on fridges, knobs on stoves, the sink handles, the door handles of bathrooms, and the handle on the hinadora. Once touched, it takes a spray of dilute bleach to kill both the salmonella (think typhoid), and worm eggs.

When we turn our focus on the 2 major GI parasitic infestations in Mexico, Salmonella and worms, and knowing that most people with them HAVE NO SYMPTOMS, then taking the antiparasite meds every 6 months or once a year actually makes rational sense .

Realities of Amoeba Infestations:

Know that 4 decades of studies show a 2 pill course of antibiotics simply does not work on amoebas.

Also know that the drugs mentioned above, taken alone, simply do not work on amoebas.

Then realize: It takes at least 10 days of Diloxanide furoate antibiotic treatments to have a chance of effectively treating amoebic infestations. Still, even after 10 days of metronidazole (Flagyl) amoeba treatments, as many as 40% of patients still test positive for amoebas, which means the patient has to continue the Diloxanide furoate treatment.

  • Diloxanide furoate is the drug of choice for asymptomatic patients with E. histolytica cysts in the faeces (metronidazole and tinidazole are relatively ineffective).
  • Metronidazole is the first choice for treatment of acute invasive amoebic dysentery. Tinidazole is also effective for acute amoebic dysentery.
  • Treatment with metronidazole or tinidazole is followed by a 10-day course of diloxanide furoate to destroy any amoebae in the gut.
  • Diloxanide furoate is also given as a 10-day course for chronic infections.

http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/amoebiasis-pro

and

http://www.drugs.com/health-guide/gastrointestinal-amebiasis.html

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amoebas in Mexico are somewhat resistant to antibiotics and you need a couple week treatment before getting ridd¿ off them meanwhile Giardia is somewhat resistant to antibiotics in Africa and are very tough to get

rid off if you contacted it over there.

Thanks for the info, and no we haven't been to Africa!

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The point is that in places where certain types of parasites are prevalent, they are

treated with antibiotics and they become mroe difficult to treat. Antibitotics are to be

treated with respect and not taken in excess.

I guess it is the reason for having to have a prescriptions in Mexico rather than being

able to buy them over the counter.

By the way Giardia is in Mexico and in Europe as well no need to go to Africa to get it and it is not pleasant either.

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Thank you for this information...

Tough to take preventive steps which cover.

Wondering if our immune systems build over time...

Thanks again on sharing!

"Wondering if our immune systems build over time..."

Yes, your immune system does build antibodies over time, but that does not help at all with nutritional deficiencies and other problems caused by the worms nor endemic salmonella infections.

e.g. Do you really want to become the equivalent of a "Typhoid Mary"?

Why would anyone choose to permanently carry an endemic asymptomatic Salmonella infection, that constantly threatens to make other people around you, very sick?

Further microbiology*, a number of good research studies show that our gut-wall lining epithelial cells are actually swapping little pieces of DNA and RNA with the microbes in our guts. It has been shown that this swapping of DNA and RNA can open our systems/our bodies up to future infections. e.g. When we eat one strain of E. coli found in cow feces that contaminates some hamburger (from improper butchering practices), that cow-feces E. coli swaps DNA with our gut cells which then makes our gut lining permanently porous to future even-nastier beef-based E. Coli infections.

The idea of developing a tolerance to things does not mean we should intentionally expose ourselves to typhoid.

Similarly, we really should not welcome parasitic worm infections.

Pages 432 and 433 of the CDC article listed above describe the levels of Mexican salmonella's antibiotic resistance found for most common antibiotics. http://wwwnc.cdc.gov...dfs/07-1057.pdf

*Note that medical doctors simply do not study microbiology in much detail nor in depth, so most are unaware of the hidden world of microbial pathogens, nor do physicians know of the advantages of beneficial microbes in our guts. (vitamin production, manufacture of immune-system calming factors, improved digestion of foods our guts cannot break down, better immune health, reduced allergies, and on & on). These things are not part of their routine training.

Source of this information: I am married to a Johns Hopkins/CSU trained MS / Ph.D. microbiologis/virologist.

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Portimom, I might as well throw in my two bits here. A few months ago I too had a similar problem with parasites, caused by drinking bad water.

The antibiotics that the doctor prescribed caused the ligaments in my legs to seize up, could hardly walk for a few days, and this after

taking only two of these "magic pills" at a cost of 700 pesos. From now on I'm sticking with probiotics, kefir, and garlic.

Hope you find the right answer.

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The point is that in places where certain types of parasites are prevalent, they are

treated with antibiotics and they become mroe difficult to treat. Antibitotics are to be

treated with respect and not taken in excess.

I guess it is the reason for having to have a prescriptions in Mexico rather than being

able to buy them over the counter.

By the way Giardia is in Mexico and in Europe as well no need to go to Africa to get it and it is not pleasant either.

I got Giardia drinking out of Lake Huron in Canada and also had it in Mexico.
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yes drinking of lakes and stream is not a good idea anywhere..

People develop blindness from drinking out of some streams in Chiapas and a friend of ours went to Panama to develop a virgin piece of land on an island and almost died from drinking from a wonderful clean stream there. Parasites lurk everywhere and clear water is just as dangerous as muddy water..

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So then maybe you know which family of medicine this Vermox falls into... Is it an antibiotic?

Curious at this point... those two magic pills seem to be quite potent.

Though from what others are saying on this board... bad reaction to this... use carries risk...

It seems it is best to stay clear of unless diagnosed for what it treats, and even then, maybe

there are alternatives that would be kinder to your system.

I am impressed with what I have heard of the holistic medical practices here... and think that

going that route to prepare your gut and immune system in advance of disease (as well as for

treatment) may be a good investment. Someone informed me that natural Drs are also MDs

in Mexico.

The point is that in places where certain types of parasites are prevalent, they are
treated with antibiotics and they become mroe difficult to treat. Antibitotics are to be
treated with respect and not taken in excess.
I guess it is the reason for having to have a prescriptions in Mexico rather than being
able to buy them over the counter.

By the way Giardia is in Mexico and in Europe as well no need to go to Africa to get it and it is not pleasant either.

Source of this information: I am married to a Johns Hopkins/CSU trained MS / Ph.D. microbiologis/virologist.

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I agree on that one, not to ingest lake or stream/pond water.

yes drinking of lakes and stream is not a good idea anywhere..
People develop blindness from drinking out of some streams in Chiapas and a friend of ours went to Panama to develop a virgin piece of land on an island and almost died from drinking from a wonderful clean stream there. Parasites lurk everywhere and clear water is just as dangerous as muddy water..

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Portimom, I might as well throw in my two bits here. A few months ago I too had a similar problem with parasites, caused by drinking bad water.

The antibiotics that the doctor prescribed caused the ligaments in my legs to seize up, could hardly walk for a few days, and this after

taking only two of these "magic pills" at a cost of 700 pesos. From now on I'm sticking with probiotics, kefir, and garlic.

Hope you find the right answer.

Right.. laugh as others may.... probiotics, garlic and other arsenal, may be a better route and yes I plan to adhere to that as well. A few others have PM'd me with other natural alternatives...

After hearing from others here... I do have a sensitive stomach and I think those two magic pills could cause a lot of havoc with me as well. Seems rather potent... If it's not in the antibiotic family.. well that's a surprise.

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Sometimes the bugs get the better of whatever else we're trying to do to stay healthy. I'm a great believer in kefir, daily, even though I refer to it as "white slime". No taste treat, that, but my gut has been much happier since I've been downing it daily. You can buy the homemade version at the Tuesday market.

Worst case scenario is when the bugs are getting way ahead and it's two weeks of Flagyl. Nevertheless, we need to take amoebas seriously, so we do whatever it takes to fight the good fight.

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Two more votes for kefir... wink. And add it to a smoothie to make it go down eh? Thanks for this advice!

Sometimes the bugs get the better of whatever else we're trying to do to stay healthy. I'm a great believer in kefir, daily, even though I refer to it as "white slime". No taste treat, that, but my gut has been much happier since I've been downing it daily. You can buy the homemade version at the Tuesday market.

Worst case scenario is when the bugs are getting way ahead and it's two weeks of Flagyl. Nevertheless, we need to take amoebas seriously, so we do whatever it takes to fight the good fight.

Kefir is superb in my morning smoothie: blueberries, coconut oil, spinach, moringa, chia, cinnamon, cocoa, almond milk. Add figs for sweetener if desired. Ya baby!

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Kefir makes sense in helping us to not give salmonella or amoebas a foothold in our guts, since kefir's bacteria live in the same niche as salmonella, but I have trouble seeing how eating kefir could have any effect of resisting the different worms that are so prevalent in Mexico.

How can bacteria from kefir offer any help with worms, because they live in such very different niches and use different nutrients?

I've gotten worms here 3 different times, and they just slowly drained my energy. I use a probiotic mix of about 10 different beneficial bacteria, with 4 billion live critters per dose, but even that sophisticated mix does not help to prevent worm infestations.

This point goes directly to the OP's questions, because the idea is to maintain best health by possibly choosing prophylactic treatments for the very real problems of GI parasites here: Paramecia, Amoebae, Salmonella, and all the different worms.

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the idea is to maintain best health by possibly choosing prophylactic treatments for the very real problems of GI parasites here: Paramecia, Amoebae, Salmonella, and all the different worms.

EXACTLY... since some of the treatments or preventives can be harsh (many are reporting Vermox to have terrible side effects) and in fact some of those preventive medicines should be withheld until infected...

What are the best preventives that can be SAFELY added to our regimen?

Yes, we may still become infected, but if our immune systems are strengthened, the hit should be less severe.

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EXACTLY... since some of the treatments or preventives can be harsh (many are reporting Vermox to have terrible side effects) and in fact some of those preventive medicines should be withheld until infected...

What are the best preventives that can be SAFELY added to our regimen?

Yes, we may still become infected, but if our immune systems are strengthened, the hit should be less severe.

This advice makes sense for amoebas, and bacterial infections like salmonella, but a strengthened immune system does not affect parasitic worms.

The eggs of the parasitic worms are treated like food by our gut mechanisms.

Worm eggs do not trigger immune responses, and the worms do not trigger immune reactions - so, having a stronger immune system really does not help with the very common and frequent problems of parasitic worms in Mexico.

It definitely is a dilemma for people who do not tolerate the anti-worm medications.

None of us really wants to be a worm-carrier, like Typhoid Mary, constantly threatening the health of the people we live with.

Having parasitic worms really does threaten our whole family, which means that when one family/household member is found to have parasitic worms, microbiologists and physicians advise that all household members be treated, to break the cycle.

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