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Car Importation Investigations????


N2Futur

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cbviajero, I did it in Reynosa, I'll have to look up the name. It will be on the pedimento for some machinery I imported as I no longer have the pedimentos (nor the vehicles). I really wouldn't recommend Reynosa the way things are these days. The office was in a pretty shady part of town. Scared the crap out of my brother!! But he had never been to a border town. The last time was several years ago. Either 2010 or 2011.

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"according to this, it isn't quite as easy as you portray it."

Put your dang glasses on - I said immigrants to Canada, not people hoping to flip used cars.

You are also wrong about export - it means commerce, as in merchandise etc. does not apply to private individuals.

http://www.cbp.gov/trade/trade-community/automated/aes/about

One of my studies in Private International Law was "Harmonization of laws under the "European Union", taught by the leading Professor on this topic, in the world. It was the most boring class I ever took, but it taught me how to read large, complicated, bodies of law.

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"according to this, it isn't quite as easy as you portray it."

Put your dang glasses on - I said immigrants to Canada, not people hoping to flip used cars.

You are also wrong about export - it means commerce, as in merchandise etc. does not apply to private individuals.

http://www.cbp.gov/trade/trade-community/automated/aes/about

One of my studies in Private International Law was "Harmonization of laws under the "European Union", taught by the leading Professor on this topic, in the world. It was the most boring class I ever took, but it taught me how to read large, complicated, bodies of law.

Actually I Googled immigration to Canada and it gave the link I posted. It explained the procedure for immigrants importing both personal items AND their vehicles. So I guess you need to take that up with the Canadian government. And no where is anything said about flipping cars. That is ridiculous. Any vehicle destined to remain PERMANENTLY outside the US must be exported through US Customs. Wipe the fog from your glasses.

BTW, I never knew you were a lawyer. You have always claimed to be a mason and a bunch of other things, but never a lawyer or having studied law.

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I studied in Europe, after two years at University of British Columbia, International Relations. Then earned a B. Sc.(Econ), Magna Cum Laude, International Politics and Law, University of Wales, Aberystwyth, home of the Woodrow Wilson Chair of International Politics - the oldest in the western world.

I also owned the second wooden golf tee factory in North America. :lol:

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cbviajero, I did it in Reynosa, I'll have to look up the name. It will be on the pedimento for some machinery I imported as I no longer have the pedimentos (nor the vehicles). I really wouldn't recommend Reynosa the way things are these days. The office was in a pretty shady part of town. Scared the crap out of my brother!! But he had never been to a border town. The last time was several years ago. Either 2010 or 2011.

Thanks for your reply,I don't think I'll be visiting Reynosa anytime soon,Nuevo Laredo is the shortest drive for me so I guess I'll get it done there.I used to enjoy trips to border towns,but things change.

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I studied in Europe, after two years at University of British Columbia, International Relations. Then earned a B. Sc.(Econ), Magna Cum Laude, International Politics and Law, University of Wales, Aberystwyth, home of the Woodrow Wilson Chair of International Politics - the oldest in the western world.

I also owned the second wooden golf tee factory in North America. :lol:

And just last week on a different thread you were saying that the "molino" brand of grinder was the most popular brand of grinder sold in Mexico..

That was hilarious!!

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Some Comments above regarding going up to various point of entries seem to imply you have a choice. I thought you had to go back to the crossing where you originally brought the car in through?

Also what is the fastest route , place to overnight at and time it would take from Ajijic to Eagles pass at the border?

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The definitions make it clear that exporting is for people and businesses who export vehicles as a business, vehicles that are in commerce, not vehicles for private use. A private vehicle is not in commerce.

I sent a couple of emails to Customs in D.C. asking for a clarification and as soon as I get a response I will post it.

http://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/export-docs/motor-vehicle

Notice on the left side of the screen it reads "For the Trade Community" meaning this rule applies to people in business, in commerce, in trade, not private individuals.

Definitions:

Export. "Export" refers to the transportation of merchandise out of the U.S. for the purpose of being entered into the commerce of a foreign country.
Ultimate Purchaser. "Ultimate Purchaser" means the first person, other than a dealer purchasing in his capacity as a dealer, who in good faith purchases a self-propelled vehicle for purposes other than resale.
Used. "Used" refers to any self-propelled vehicle the equitable or legal title to which has been transferred by a manufacturer, distributor, or dealer to an ultimate purchaser.
This describes private use vehicles reentering the U.S. They have not been exported and they do not need to be imported. It also defines "commercial."

A vehicle transported/driven from the United States for non-commercial or private use outside the country may return duty free to the United States, if U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) is provided specific proof of U.S. origination. This proof may be a State issued vehicle registration card or a CBP certificate of registration (CBP 4455) completed and verified by a CBP officer before departure from the United States.
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For any American who actually has to permanently import their used American-titled vehicle into Mexico, it's better to follow the law, as US CBP has been telling the gringos who have asked.

Mexconnect has a report from a customs broker at the border who is saying that US CBP is enforcing the 10 year old law requiring that Americans must first formally export their used American-titled car before they can legally permanently import the car into Mexico. To confirm compliance with this US CBP export requirement, put in place to stop people from bringing stolen cars into Mexico, Aduana is requiring that the American title be stamped "Exported" before they will accept it for permanent import.

Since the Mexican Federal Government crackdown on permanent imports at the border has swept up judges, magistrates, and at least one Aduana administrator in an effort to get Mexican Aduana to follow the laws, talk with a professional car importer about the requirements.

Fortunately, the US penalty for a private American citizen breaking the US CBP export rule is a modest $250 fine.

http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=201996;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

EDITED BY MODERATOR TO REMOVE GRATUITOUS PERSONAL COMMENTARY. I AM REALLY RUNNING OUT OF PATIENCE WITH THIS SORT OF THING.

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Vehicles are exported only for the purpose of commerce (business) to a foreign country. The definitions are clear in stating to whom and for what purpose the rule applies.


That is why private vehicles that are "for non-commercial or private use outside the country" can be brought back into the U.S. without being "imported." Once exported a vehicle must be imported and a private use vehicle does not need to be exported so it does not need to be imported.


A private customs broker might be charging people to export, but U.S. Customs does the exporting and U.S. Customs does not require exporting for non-commercial, private use vehicles.


If you are referring to a broker on the MX side, he is not involved with U,S. law.


There is no broker on the U.S. side exporting private use vehicles.


I'm sure I will have an answer from U.S. Customs that spells it out more clearly for you and I will post it.

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Not much in this world is exactly the same,

but Reynosa and Nuevo Laredo are about equidistant from Guad

You're right about the distances,the difference is that Reynosa is a hot bed of zeta activity,and zetas are very fond of trucks like my Tacoma.
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Joco, it has been shown and proven that you are absolutely mistaken on this matter. Why you obsessively try to prove otherwise just lowers your credibility. In your email to US Customs you even went to the extreme of accusing the US Customs officers that informed me of this law, of corruption at the worst or incompetence at the least. I bet they get a big laugh. Having the law explained to them by someone in Mexico that isn't even a lawyer.

And BTW, many customs brokers work both sides of the border. I have imported 3 vehicles and many pieces of industrial machinery over the years. Several shipments I personally delivered to a warehouse on the US side of the border where ALL of the documentation was completed before the items could cross the border. Other shipments were delivered by a US carrier, delivered to the Mexican broker's warehouse and once the pedimento was prepared, they were shipped to me in Guadalajara.

It is one thing to Google away your day researching rules and regulations, as seems to be your habit. Its something quite different to actually having personal experience.

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Sorry it bothers you so much Cooper but I know I am right.

Exporting vehicles is for vehicles entering the commerce (business) of another country.

The rules explain that.

No U.S. Customs officer is exporting personal use vehicles.

It is about time that you learned to write your opinion without being insulting.

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Joco, it has been shown and proven that you are absolutely mistaken on this matter. Why you obsessively try to prove otherwise just lowers your credibility. In your email to US Customs you even went to the extreme of accusing the US Customs officers that informed me of this law, of corruption at the worst or incompetence at the least. I bet they get a big laugh. Having the law explained to them by someone in Mexico that isn't even a lawyer.

And BTW, many customs brokers work both sides of the border. I have imported 3 vehicles and many pieces of industrial machinery over the years. Several shipments I personally delivered to a warehouse on the US side of the border where ALL of the documentation was completed before the items could cross the border. Other shipments were delivered by a US carrier, delivered to the Mexican broker's warehouse and once the pedimento was prepared, they were shipped to me in Guadalajara.

It is one thing to Google away your day researching rules and regulations, as seems to be your habit. Its something quite different to actually having personal experience.

Sounds like you're describing commercial export and Joco is describing personal export of one vehicle.

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Sounds like you're describing commercial export and Joco is describing personal export of one vehicle.

MC this is what this whole deal is about. Snowyco and Cooper say the rule means personal vehicles must be exported. The rule says vehicles that are entering the commerce of a foreign country and has a definition of the final buyer. That export rule is for businesses exporting used vehicles to sell. It does not apply to vehicles for personal use. They think it applies to all vehicles and Cooper thinks "commerce" is the country not business. Maybe you can explain it better.

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Better than you??????

I know you are trying to be a jerk but I will ignore it and state that obviously I am not explaining it simply enough to be understood and neither is Chillin, so maybe someone else can take a stab at it.

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This will be the last time I post on this subject. I have personally imported 3 vehicles for personal use. On one occasion I was told by US Customs in McCallen that I was required to legally export the vehicle. At that particular border spot they had a trailer and a fenced area exactly for that purpose. ALL vehicles that will remain PERMANENTLY outside the US are required to be inspected prior to taking them outside the country. It doesn't matter if they are for personal or commercial use. People reading this thread that are considering bringing a vehicle into Mexico can decide for themselves if they wish to follow the law or not.

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Going back to original post, one couple reports they have been in Phoenix 2 weeks waiting for the word from Oscar to nationalize their vehicle. They state they are Permanent Residents. It will be interesting how this ends, what brokers may be shut down, etc.

El Grito

Sonia

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Oscar informed me that Aduana, at least where he's at, is shut down because of the corruption issue and would be so for at least two weeks.

Cooper, I don't doubt that you were told what you were told by one agent. I do doubt that this is SOP. Importing vehicles has been discussed ad nauseum here, many people have done it including several friends of mine and to my knowledge NO ONE has been required to get some sort of export permission from U.S. customs in order to import their vehicle here. It rather sounds like you volunteered for something that pretty much everyone else is ignoring. However, if after the dust settles on the latest Aduana upheaval the Mexican importers will require that Customs stamp, it is good to know what it is and how it is obtained.

Is it possible that this is something that was around but may now be getting enforced? Given how many stolen U.S. vehicles end up in Mexico it might make sense except the "crooked" car import business into Mexico wouldn't worry about it. This will be about as effectual as Mexico's riddled and corrupt car importation. Of course it would never occur to these government control freaks that maybe their approach to this doesn't work so hot.

Once the car is here, what are U.S. Customs going to do about it? If the Mexicans don't require it I wouldn't expect many people to go out of their way to get it. Would you?

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