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Nationalizing Nafta car at border


EddyR

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Very possibly true.

I'm not privy to how the stolen car trade works, and since the cross-border policies are now being worked-out in Washington and in DF, nobody knows what will actually be the final policies, except that both sides have said they now intend to enforce the existing laws.

Both sides have acknowledged that the prior systems had huge systemic gaps that facilitators like Sonia exploited, and that car-thieves exploited, and both governments.have resolved to close those gap. The current laws in both the US CFR and Mexican DOF give the regulators (Aduana and CBP), the rights and the framework, and the authority to enforce, but not necessarily the final details of the policies, which are now being hammered out.

This current situation has some similarities with the process of the 2010 INM law's implementation. Just as we got the INM law in May 2010, but the Lineamientos were not put into place until Nov. 2012 - there is a delay between the published changes in Aduana's permanent import for auto law and the actual details of the policies they will follow.

This is why Sonia and her border collegues don't know what's going on, because they aren't focused on (and are not plugged into) the processes in DF or Washington DC.

Just as none of us knew what the INM Lineamientos would hold, none of us know what details will come out of the DF-Washington joint collaborative efforts.

Speculation: If I were mapping out the route for this bus, I'd put some sort of data sharing into place - where the US govt gives the Mexicans a big database list of US stolen cars, sorted by VIN. and The Mex. Gob. gives the US govt a big database list of used American cars that have been brought into Mexico, including both TIP cars and permanent imports, because the US govt. defines a permanent "export" differently than the Mexican govt. defines a permanent "import".

If the database information exchange took/takes place (very possible, and likely probable since the Mex. Gob. now has this information in a database), each govt. would take some time comparing the new information they receive, to determine just who has broken Mexican law and who has broken US law in the past, and adjust their "new" policies on what happens at the border.

In other words, there are yet more worms to crawl out of these cans.

and if the database information exchange takes place, each/both governments will be grinding away for a year or more, investigating and ultimately enforcing prosecutions of prior violations of both Mexican and US law.

More speculation: Sonia and others imagined and predicted there would be a quick and tidy resolution, with imports re-starting the week after their Sept. suspension. All current signs point to that not happening.

The Mexican Federal Gov´t. has already or had access to the US stolen vehicle database. I remember a newspaper article from 2006. The military and Federal Pólice moved into Culiacan that summer and 1400 Federal Pólice and many more army caravaned down the major blvd.s of that city. That Fri. night they set up road blocks and checked VINs and found 1400 US reported stolen vehicles and impounded them. One was a Suburban driven by the Sub Jefe [assistant chief] of the Culiacan Municipal Pólice.

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I guess "everyone" has presented their point of view/interpretation etc.

Maybe it is time to sit back and see where the chips fall..

I hope we/I do not have to wait too long, my fingers are numb and my brain addled

Just wish someone with first hand experience would share his details

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Steve, Yucalandia, I did not exploit anything. You imply I did something illegal or not right as you often do while hiding behind a screen name trolling. The organization and broker I work with are not under investigation unlike others including one recommended often on here. The man I work with and communicate with almost daily is responsible for hundreds of cars being nationalized through UCD. Every car ends up on REPUVE and can be checked on Aduana's web site. Ramiro meets with Aduana and SAT representatives often and he or his assistant communicates with them almost daily.

This is no different than vehicles that were nationalized through people at the Guadalajara airport although at a high price in many cases but legal.

Every car I nationalized has proven to be legal, plated and registered in Mexico. I met with Aduana staff on Saturday Feb 1 and subsequent dates while they actually photographed some of the cars I was nationalizing.

The investigation by Aduana involves vehicles being nationalized that should not have been. This is totally separate from chocolates. Most chocolates of which there are estimated to be approx. 800,000 have passed an Aduana check point as they entered Mexico. or they have passed numerous police while being driven in Mexico almost daily. All have been paid off or simply looked the other way. One person I know brought in one car every week from Texas as a way to make a living. These were not nationalized but he carried 500 peso bills.

Every chocolate could be taken off the road within a month if Aduana, Federales, state and municipal police etc, acted. As Alan noted every car that is to be nationalized can quickly be checked on web sites if it is stolen including Canadian cars. So, again this could be stopped if the corruption ended by the brokers, Aduana staff, politicians, lawyers and judges who are being investigated. The push to clean this up partly and maybe mostly comes from the 4 car dealers' associations and manufacturers who are here and those building new facilities in large numbers.

Sonia

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Thanks. I agree. Amazing it takes them three days when there's a national stolen car database that can be accessed by computer.

I'm glad I dropped the idea of importing a moto. Not worth the hassle.

2 things come to mind:

If a stolen vehicle was run across the border right away to be nationalized as before and ADUANA didn´t check to see if it was a hot car that is one thing, but maybe it takes a couple of days for some pólice depts. to get around to putting it the US national data base.

Second if it was reported stolen now the CBP not only check it's VIN in the national data base but have the vehicle in their posession and the name of the person trying to export it in their paperwork. Esay for them to make a case and return the vehicle to it´s owner.

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I think it more than a little optimistic to believe this illegal car game is going to change. There's too much money in it for all the corrupt government workers here. Just more government BS that the crooks will quickly find a way around.

It is mainly going to be a big fat hassle for individuals wanting to bring cars in they already own. Do yourselves a favor, sell those cars NOB and buy something here. Yep, you'll pay through the nose because of all this protectionism but you will save a ton of aggravation. The taxes and fees on imports erase most of the cost difference anyway.

Just chalk it up as part of the cost of living in Mexico.

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Alan agree they cross the border within little time but one still needs a title if not in car glove box to nationalize and without it someone was paid off including Aduana staff and brokers. One steals an expensive vehicle and in hours for maybe $3000 they have it nationalized.

Mainecoons agree but in a few cases the drive to the border for those already here is too much in terms of stress etc and health not permitting the trip. The need in many cases to become Permanent is what is driving the issue for expats with foreign plated cars. I realize one can avoid being Permanent but they do not have the income.

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2 things come to mind:

If a stolen vehicle was run across the border right away to be nationalized as before and ADUANA didn´t check to see if it was a hot car that is one thing, but maybe it takes a couple of days for some pólice depts. to get around to putting it the US national data base.

Second if it was reported stolen now the CBP not only check it's VIN in the national data base but have the vehicle in their posession and the name of the person trying to export it in their paperwork. Esay for them to make a case and return the vehicle to it´s owner.

Both good points.

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Alan agree they cross the border within little time but one still needs a title if not in car glove box to nationalize and without it someone was paid off including Aduana staff and brokers. One steals an expensive vehicle and in hours for maybe $3000 they have it nationalized.

Counterfit documents are easy to get here, I have been told. That is why most payments are done by bank transfers for sometime now. Most large companies do not take checks anymore and more and more documents have lazer imprints and watermarks that are not forgeable. Even petty documents lately are starting to have them.

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Steve, Yucalandia, I did not exploit anything. You imply I did something illegal or not right as you often do while hiding behind a screen name trolling. The organization and broker I work with are not under investigation unlike others including one recommended often on here. The man I work with and communicate with almost daily is responsible for hundreds of cars being nationalized through UCD. Every car ends up on REPUVE and can be checked on Aduana's web site. Ramiro meets with Aduana and SAT representatives often and he or his assistant communicates with them almost daily.

This is no different than vehicles that were nationalized through people at the Guadalajara airport although at a high price in many cases but legal.

Every car I nationalized has proven to be legal, plated and registered in Mexico. I met with Aduana staff on Saturday Feb 1 and subsequent dates while they actually photographed some of the cars I was nationalizing.

The investigation by Aduana involves vehicles being nationalized that should not have been. This is totally separate from chocolates. Most chocolates of which there are estimated to be approx. 800,000 have passed an Aduana check point as they entered Mexico. or they have passed numerous police while being driven in Mexico almost daily. All have been paid off or simply looked the other way. One person I know brought in one car every week from Texas as a way to make a living. These were not nationalized but he carried 500 peso bills.

Every chocolate could be taken off the road within a month if Aduana, Federales, state and municipal police etc, acted. As Alan noted every car that is to be nationalized can quickly be checked on web sites if it is stolen including Canadian cars. So, again this could be stopped if the corruption ended by the brokers, Aduana staff, politicians, lawyers and judges who are being investigated. The push to clean this up partly and maybe mostly comes from the 4 car dealers' associations and manufacturers who are here and those building new facilities in large numbers.

Sonia

Did Sonia formally export every single used US car through CBP, following the US law's requirements?

Just 2 weeks ago, Sonia was writing on chapala.com that the CBP export was not needed for her $3 million pesos of imports. Did Sonia lead her clients to believe that her process was fully legal?

If Sonia and her broker did not formally export every single US used car she facilitated for permanent import, then her process would seem to break US law.

Processes that break US law, are by definition, illegal, regardless of internet claims.

Choose processes that follow both US law and Mexican law.

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The organization and broker I work with are not under investigation unlike others including one recommended often on here

That could change,it seems to be a very fluid situation.

Personally I wouldn't trust any facilitators at this point in time,I don't think any of them knows how this is going to shakeout,but don't expect them to admit to not knowing,it's not in their interest.

I'm going to wait until things are a little clearer.

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A number of years ago we purchased a m'home in Houston, TX & imported it into Canada. The requirement then was as it is now. We notified CBP a minimum of 72 hours before arriving at the border. We had faxed the necessary docs. to them & all was ready when we arrived there. Smooth as silk. I assume you can still do the same thing, get your approval stamp & be on your way.

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Very possibly true.

I'm not privy to how the stolen car trade works, and since the cross-border policies are now being worked-out in Washington and in DF, nobody knows what will actually be the final policies, except that both sides have said they now intend to enforce the existing laws.

Both sides have acknowledged that the prior systems had huge systemic gaps that facilitators like Sonia exploited, and that car-thieves exploited, and both governments.have resolved to close those gap. The current laws in both the US CFR and Mexican DOF give the regulators (Aduana and CBP), the rights and the framework, and the authority to enforce, but not necessarily the final details of the policies, which are now being hammered out.

This current situation has some similarities with the process of the 2010 INM law's implementation. Just as we got the INM law in May 2010, but the Lineamientos were not put into place until Nov. 2012 - there is a delay between the published changes in Aduana's permanent import for auto law and the actual details of the policies they will follow.

This is why Sonia and her border collegues don't know what's going on, because they aren't focused on (and are not plugged into) the processes in DF or Washington DC.

Just as none of us knew what the INM Lineamientos would hold, none of us know what details will come out of the DF-Washington joint collaborative efforts.

Speculation: If I were mapping out the route for this bus, I'd put some sort of data sharing into place - where the US govt gives the Mexicans a big database list of US stolen cars, sorted by VIN. and The Mex. Gob. gives the US govt a big database list of used American cars that have been brought into Mexico, including both TIP cars and permanent imports, because the US govt. defines a permanent "export" differently than the Mexican govt. defines a permanent "import".

If the database information exchange took/takes place (very possible, and likely probable since the Mex. Gob. now has this information in a database), each govt. would take some time comparing the new information they receive, to determine just who has broken Mexican law and who has broken US law in the past, and adjust their "new" policies on what happens at the border.

In other words, there are yet more worms to crawl out of these cans.

and if the database information exchange takes place, each/both governments will be grinding away for a year or more, investigating and ultimately enforcing prosecutions of prior violations of both Mexican and US law.

More speculation: Sonia and others imagined and predicted there would be a quick and tidy resolution, with imports re-starting the week after their Sept. suspension. All current signs point to that not happening.

Proof of compliance of US Customs requirements for exporting vehicles were not required by Mexico Aduana to legally import vehicles until recently. To imply that those who didn't properly export the vehicle first were in violation of Mexican law is nonsense. I think your insinuation that that Sonia was doing something shady are completely erroneous and uncalled for.

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Proof of compliance of US Customs requirements for exporting vehicles were not required by Mexico Aduana to legally import vehicles until recently. To imply that those who didn't properly export the vehicle first were in violation of Mexican law is nonsense. I think your insinuation that that Sonia was doing something shady are completely erroneous and uncalled for.

I am not insinuating nor implying anything.

Sonia is completely free to explain her processes, which she hasn't done.

How many cars she has done, especially NAFTA used US cars?

She said in an earlier post that she didn't know about any specific amparos, but how can we know the imports were fully legal, when she writes that she doesn't know a key thing like the specifics of the amparo she used. What are the specifics of the different amparos that were used?

Like with TioCorp, we've read claims of amparos and legitimacy, things that ultimately did not exist.

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Did Sonia formally export every single used US car through CBP, following the US law's requirements?

Just 2 weeks ago, Sonia was writing on chapala.com that the CBP export was not needed for her $3 million pesos of imports. Did Sonia lead her clients to believe that her process was fully legal?

If Sonia and her broker did not formally export every single US used car she facilitated for permanent import, then her process would seem to break US law.

Processes that break US law, are by definition, illegal, regardless of internet claims.

Choose processes that follow both US law and Mexican law.

Can you write anything without attacking someone?

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