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New Rules on Severance?


PECANS

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Quick question. I have been advised that the laws regarding severance for employees have changed as follows: When terminating an employee, you are now required to pay for only 75 days of work, independent of how long the person has worked for you. You also pay the aguinaldo for that year and two weeks vacation.

Can anyone confirm these changes? I plan to contact Spencer but thought I to post here first to see if anyone has direct experience severing with these changes.

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I had a 5 hour class tonight on changes to the labor law one year after it was implemented and nothing was mentioned as you stated. The major monetary change was that people can only claim one year of back wages and this has to do if they were not fired properly and the case drags out for years.

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Improper firing is when you do not give them written notice describing the facts and including the reason or reasons as outlined in the labor law. Under prior law if an employee failed to receive the notice you had to file it with the labor court and then they had to serve the employee and if they could not find him or did not serve him then the statute of limitations would never start to run. This would be a presumption that the firing was unjustified.

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An option there is to file with the labor court and they will serve him.

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Guest bennie2

my maid has been w/me 6 yrs exactly p/t. she wants to quit (or be fired) i think. she worked one 1/2day per week untill last year. this year its every other week for about 5 1/2-6 hrs (12 hrs per month). nothing in writting that says independent contractor. CAN SHE COLLECT? do the news laws apply to p/t workers?

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She is an employee and the laws do apply to her.

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Guest bennie2

intercasa, where can i see the p/t rules? i heard they can quit after 12 yrs & collect. (not 6 yr or 7). im not firing her, hope i wont need a lawyer. (if i do you will hear from me). we have nothing in writing for the 1st 5ys. only the last year i have a record of her hrs & pay amounts. no she wont sign the reciepts.

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Bennie2, if she quits she is not eligible for severance, no matter how long she has worked for you. The same is true for any employee.

If you fire her, she is eligible. Again, the same is true for any employee.

Either way, you must require the employee to sign a statement saying that a) either she/he quit willingly and that you owe him/her nothing or B) that he/she was fired and that you have paid all due severance. Give amounts, both in numbers and written out.

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There is no distinction between full time and part time. Labor law is very tricky and favors the employee and whatever they say, even lies are taken as true. Even someone quitting can lie and say they were fired and try to claim big $$$.

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All of the above, and the below, is why I'd much rather use the services of Spring Clean and keep my life simple.

I had a maid for a couple of years upon first moving to Mexico. I treated her very well but when I had to lay her off due to selling the house she had been cleaning part time, she claimed she'd been working there for two years before the house was built on that vacant lot. Stupid newbie me at the time, I didn't know about getting an agreement made and getting signed receipts. It was expensive and unpleasant.

Advice: don't do what I did. Never mind the sweet smiles and the nice lady. She might have a ruthless boyfriend. Get everything in writing, and signed.

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Guest bennie2

liana, 1) spencer is correct. they lie, its a scam, they win. the lawyers take 60% of the backpay the worker recieves. i know this because my friends father is a lawyer in guad. 2) i did hear that any employee can quit after 12 yrs & collect.(?) 3) i also heard that the workers no longer have to go to guad to file, they can do it in chapala (??) which make it easier to run the scam. i guess i was lucky in the past, i fired 2 employees w/out any problems. both were w/me for almost 2years.

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Here is a link to the Secretaria del Trabajo there you can click on the link to the new labor laws:

http://www.stps.gob.mx/bp/micrositios/reforma_laboral/ref_lab.html

Article 50 parts i & II refer to severance of employment

Here is a rough translation:

- The compensation referred to in the preceding article
shall consist of:
Article 50 ....
I. If the employment relationship is for a fixed period less than one year,
an amount equal to the amount of wages than half the length of service
rendered; if it exceeds one year in an amount equal to the amount of
six months wages for the first year and twenty days each
following years that had served;
I. and II. ...
II. If the employment relationship is for an indefinite time, compensation
will consist of twenty days' wages for each year of service
rendered; and
III. In addition to the allowances relate the previous sections,
in the amount of three months' salary and the wages due from the
date of dismissal until the claims are paid.
III. In addition to the allowances referred to in previous sections relate in
the amount of three months' salary and payment of overdue wages and interest
if, on the terms provided in Article 48 of this Law
Chapter IV Article 47 touches on Reasons to Terminate Employment
This is a pretty sticky subject all the way around, in Sonora where we lived prior to moving to Jalisco, the locals are known for their reputation of suing their employers. If you can get by with out having to hire someone I would strongly suggest doing so. If not keep a detailed log on your employee, every time they are late, miss a day, dispute over monies or any reason in general write it down and have them sign each incident.
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Guest bennie2

when i hired her, i didnt know they ran the scam "w/out proof". i had one maid who quit because she got sick. never asked for anything. then i fired someone else, who my family hired. after that person, i did have a paper to sign (for #3) but didntget around to it. she was fired around the time i the paper was done. (i kind of threw her off the property). she easily could have collected as she had a notebook w/her chores listed & payments. since the maid (my current one #4) didnt have anything in writting i thought i was safe. IF she has to go to guad, it may make it harder for her. if this comes to pass, im standing my ground. rather pay spencer than her.

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The distinction of 'they' to describe an employee smacks of 'them' vs 'us'. 'They' are neither more nor less than 'we'. 'We' as employers are often guilty of many transgressions against 'them' as employees just as some of 'them' are guilty of transgressions agains some of 'us'. Some of 'them' aren't wonderful workers; some are. Some of 'us' aren't wonderful employers; some are. Many of 'us' hire employees and have no idea what it means to have an employee. Some of 'us' treat our employees as if we were lords of the manor and 'they' were our serfs. Others treat our employees as if 'they' were our friends or family members, not our household staff. An employee is not your friend or your family, even though you may like one another a lot. Some of 'us' treat 'them' with grave suspicion: 'they' will steal from us if we don't keep what's ours under lock and key.

This isn't about 'them' vs 'us'. It's about ONE employer and ONE employee who have come, for whatever reason, to the end of ONE employer/employee relationship. Whatever the problems, they need to be worked out between individuals without generalizing to two entire populations: 'them' vs 'us'.

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Guest bennie2

im not terminating. but if the maid plays games, i call spencer for an appt. liana, we do need of a lecture of the different dynamics that exist. most of us here have seen it all. what i have seen recently i dont like. in my case w/this person it IS me vs them. originally i hired her elderly mother in law who worked for a mex family 35yrs. the family said she was free one 1/2day per wk. when it came time to start she showed up w/her daughter in law & an interpreter. i wish i followed my instincts. she worked out for several years. ok, everyone have a paper signed before they start. this scam is targeted towards expats.

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Sigh.

@bennie2...you knew quite a while ago from TOB about this...at least two years ago. You pooh poohed the whole concept of part time employees being entitled to severance pay. You still think you're right.

So, why don't you be a great example for everyone and fire her but don't give her severance pay and then you can report back on whether you got away with it or not. Of course, it may end up costing you a LOT more than the PITTANCE of a severance pay that someone only working for a 1/2 day a week would ever get but that's just a chance you would be taking.

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Guest bennie2

what i said was that BY THE LAW they werent entitled if they were independent contractors. the "law" has nothing to do w/ how it is enforced. its not a pittance as she worked more prior to this year, several yrs ago it was 2xs per week for maybe 6mths. ofcause its her word against mine & she would lie & say it was 50hrs a week. if she quits & plays games im standing my ground. as of now, i think she wants the job, but is testing. if she has to go to guad, she wont bother. also i need someone to clean. why should i do something on purpose just to entertain you?? i have a life besides the internet.

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Independent contractors? Surely you jest. Do they have their own company and work for others and have a municipal business license and pay taxes as an independent company? Do you have a contract for professional services and do they give you receipts and facturas?

Or do they fit the tests of an employee, paid by one person, work specified hours and projects and are subordinate? There is a presumption they are employees, are you prepared to rebut that with something else than a nod when you asked them if they would be an independent contractor?

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Guest bennie2

spencer, i could have used the wrong term. i will think of the correct one & post @ a later date. i think what you are saying is that the 2xs a month maid is somehow different than the people who cut the grass &did odd jobs (when i called them). i had several people, none were "steady". they came when i needed them, i rotated the people. sometimes it was 4xs that month, then i wouldnt call them for another month. because this maid is "regular" she may not fit inthat catogory. ajjicsolomon, if you started to pay vacation (like i did) you should continue. if you have a paper drawn up (ask spencer) that says no vacation pay im sure its valid. since he just took a 5hr class he may be more up on things than other lawyers.

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