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Is there a time limit for late night loud music?


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The festival was called "Saturday Night" - as celebrated loudly and regularly in many countries of the world. I don't know how old you are, but you might remember it was all started by that 4 star party animal- Dionysus

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Hi Chillin,  you posted back in 2014 that you knew of 3 clubs in PV that were forced to close because of excessive noise. Can you give me more info on them? We are in the Peninsula in PV  and a beach

Once again I'll just remind everyone the MEXICANS demanded and passed the noise laws.  Lakeside for the most part the biggest offenders are bars that cater to EXPATS. Carry on.   

I am hardly an expert on the Puerto Vallarta nightclub scene. Back then we lived above a beach restaurant (the El Dorado Beach Club)that a new leasee wanted to turn into a nightclub. The noise people

Guest bennie2

still we are talking constant, like almost all the time? dont try to make this ok because its not, & there are new laws. there should be special hrs & sound limits. i have been to very quiet parts of mexico as well.

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Guest bennie2

san miquel also turned into wkend party place for people fro mex city. the main square centro was always noisy, but the areas nearby werent. i never saw grafitti there, must be a new thing.

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I have now developed more than 50% of my friendships with Mexicans at Lakeside and in Guadalajara. All of them are employed or take the first bus out of Chapala to attend school in the early morning in Guadalajara. I have asked them several times about loud music and they have asked me "what loud music?" None complain about it nor does my Mexican friend in San Antonio complain about the now famous church loudspeaker. Yet I keep hearing from gringos that Mexicans don't appreciate it either.

The many Mexicans I have come to know here and in Guadalajara must be anomalies. I was just at a very large birthday party in Guad earlier today and found it impossible to hold a conversation in any language but everyone--kids, adults and two abuelas--just seemed to either ignore the sound or perhaps actually liked it. I'm used to a quieter life in the U.S. and I admit to being annoyed when I can't talk with someone because of my poor hearing combined with loud music but if they don't care or if they even like it (??!!?) I just roll with the punches (I'm black and blue tonight!). :wacko: I just have to say that I haven't found a single Mexican (who wasn't trying to agree with everything I said to be polite) who told me that they were annoyed with the noise level here.

My biggest angst comes from those car radios that come down my street with the base on full. You hear them from four blocks away. No Mexican neighbor seems to hear what I hear. Again, I am trying to learn to roll with the punches. As for cohetes--didn't they use them as an enhanced interrogation technique? :017: My one Mexican neighbor speaks of fond memories growing up here and helping to set them off. He says that it's for the kids and I am always surprised to see ten fingers on the young guys who set them off. Older Mexicans seem to be much smarter than to do that.

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Again, so WHY DID THE MEXICAN FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PASS A LAW WITH NOISE LIMITS????

They haven't figured out a way to turn it into a revenue stream - they can't simply tax "noise" like they did with sody pop. They have to start ticketing or denying permits to the businesses holding eventos first, being very careful not to step on any V.I.P. toes who are paying for these things.

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Again, so WHY DID THE MEXICAN FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PASS A LAW WITH NOISE LIMITS????

Ouch! That hurt my ears, HarryB. Please turn down your decibel level.

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Para apaciguar a los gringos de mal humor?

Expats have nothing to do with the new noise abatement laws. IMO It is actually sort of "out there" to suggest so. It is the middle class and uper middle class wanting to put a damper on excessive noise, as is common in all industrialized nations, and having an avenue to do so when needed or desired.

I suspect small towns and villages won´t be affected or will the Catholic Churches. Tourist zones might also be not be affected, time will tell. Residential big city áreas might be be affected much more especially in middle and upper middle clsss áreas.

The power of the middle class and upper middle class is growing even though they are a minority. Pólice and gov´t. officials keep away from messing with them more each year.

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"The power of the middle class and upper middle class is growing even though they are a minority. Pólice and gov´t. officials keep away from messing with them more each year."

(Alan Mexicali)

It is said that "the thousand families" own Mexico. Probably an exaggeration, but "democracy" doesn't work the same here as it does NOB. Point being that ordinary Mexicans learned long ago to shut their eyes and ears and tell others very little about what they really think.

So, as one poster continually repeats in CAPS, it was Mexico that passed a noise ordinance, no doubt following the wishes of the Upper Classes who had "had it" with the amped up music in their neighborhoods. Just for comparison, consider how quiet it is in upper class neighborhoods in the States, as compared to the noise level in the slums. The one equalizing factor in humanity is the ability of individuals to make noise, regardless of family income or status. Freedom to shout.

I think the assertion that expats have anything to do with passing the ordinance or with it's selective enforcement is ridiculous. We just aren't that important, even though we have little hesitation about shooting our mouths off rather than closing our eyes and ears to annoyances as the working class Mexicans have done from time immemorial.

Unless you're married to a Mexican, you have no idea what your "friends" and neighbors really think. And even then, you may know less than you think you do.

That is the deepest difference in our cultures.

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In my neighborhood in Guadalajara I know plenty of Mexicans who are bothered by loud late night parties,barking dogs,cohuetes,etc,but they're nonconfrontational for the most part and unless it gets really bad they simply put up with it and take no action.

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In my neighborhood in Guadalajara I know plenty of Mexicans who are bothered by loud late night parties,barking dogs,cohuetes,etc,but they're nonconfrontational for the most part and unless it gets really bad they simply put up with it and take no action.

That is the way I understand it also.

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Guest bennie2

monessen, i dont know who your mex friends are from chapala, but i hear the opposite opinion. (both chapala & ajijic). my friend has 3 children & a job to go too. she moved 2 times because of the noise. now she has a quiet street. my other mex friend also moved from ajijic center for the same reasons. several other mexicans have mentioned it to me. none of these people are wealthy. in floresta, workers would blast radios even @ 8pm. i called the assoc police & the music was turned down. the noise situation may stop if they fine people. maybe not possible w/some venues, but i think loud car speakers & private homes. the police would make $ w/bribes. the govt would make $ from the tickets.

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Chapala officials are touring businesses to discuss the new law,

They are also looking at Facebook for unauthorized venues.

I discussed the new law with the past president a copy of the law and it has been delivered to their current president

progress is being made at mexico speed not gringo speed

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bennie2

My friends are from poor backgrounds and middle class backgrounds. Some have been born and raised in Guadalajara while others are locals

from Chapala. Some have university degrees and are professionals while others are either in school or trying to make a living. Some have a wife and children and some are still single. Some live in nice houses while others live on ranches and in (from my point of view) poorer conditions.

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If you really want to find out what is going on - I recommend Susan Cain's book "Quiet". I don't normally read behavior science books but I really enjoyed this one, and learned a lot about myself and others. She is a very smart woman and has managed to put together a book, on a potentially dry topic, which is interesting to read and fascinating as to the ideas she raises. Extroverts and introverts - we all have to get along, and the key is understanding. You can't ask a dog to act like a cat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet:_The_Power_of_Introverts_in_a_World_That_Can%27t_Stop_Talking

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Chapala officials are touring businesses to discuss the new law,

They are also looking at Facebook for unauthorized venues.

I discussed the new law with the past president a copy of the law and it has been delivered to their current president

progress is being made at mexico speed not gringo speed

Can we request they visit specific businesses? If so, how?

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Guest bennie2

monessen, my friends are both from working class & middleclass/ academic backrounds. one of them grew up in chapala her father drove a cab. she has a good job, one boy in college. the others are from ajijic or guad as well. they hate dirty loud streetfairs, noise etc. two of them were able to move as it was not managable. the others are older & agree that it wasnt like this before 10yrs back. i agree w/them. @one time it was almost silent except for some holidays. even then, it wasnt an aggressive noise.

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Monessen I have found much of what you say reflect the live and let live philosophy of Mexico. I am sure the right-wingers would see things a little different and go on add nauseum. Two different takes on idealology and not worth debating. Maincoons interest on specifics is more likely to bear fruit, I think.

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Guest bennie2

if they have laws there is a reason. you cant put all mexicans in one box either. not everyone is up all night w/rockets, drinking. the reason why they have the live&letlive additude is that they know its difficult to deal w/govt here. looks like progress is made.

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Thanks El Cartero. I think that you are correct. It's difficult for me to sometimes grasp that here at Lakeside. I'm blessed with many friends and they all have that wonderful live and let live attitude. Having taught and been a psychiatric nurse in the U.S. for many years has made me wish that everyone was like that. I guess it just can't be. Thanks for your kind reminder. I needed that.

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What not everyone yet grasps is that the reason this noise issue keeps coming up again is that in recent years much bigger sound equipment has become available to the general public - I'm talking about systems big enough for an audience of 1000, 2000, or more - concert size systems with USB ports so anyone, not just professional musicians, can use them.

These systems can be very loud, and the people running them are not experienced professionals - they just like to turn up everything as loud as possible with no thought to how many people they are forcing to listen to their music/noise. They do not understand the fundamental acoustic principle that the larger the speaker, the farther it carries - far beyond their party or club venue, dreadfully grating on the nerves of those forced to lose sleep and hear them - those who cannot hear themselves think inside their own houses, those who can no longer enjoy a movie, or soft music, a glass of wine, and a little romance on weekends in their own homes. I'm referring to those of us who live near the commercial bars and "nightclubs" who operate every weekend, all year around! They are the worst offenders!

For the record, yes, there are many Mexicans who hate the noise also, especially that produced by the horrible rock bands that play at El Barco which have tortured the neighbors for 4 years now! I know because I am one of them. I speak Spanish and have talked with many neighbors about this. They are glad to be in agreement with me.

Complaining is considered bad form in Mexican culture where people have learned over many centuries to tolerate much adversity. However, the rock bands produce a large culture clash which the gringos prefer to be blind to. Rock music (at least what we are forced to listen to here) is typically aggressive, ugly, and boring, at best - the very opposite of the cheerful, melodic, and romantic music of Mexico. This also applies to a lot of the weekend Guad Rock that we are forced to hear. What I have heard here is the very worst of US music (often styled in Spanish - or it's just such noise that lyrics aren't even heard!). There is actually TONS of great music from the US,,, IT IS JUST NOT HERE!

I have heard great Spanish rock music on TV and coming out of cars, but that is not what we hear on weekends or in bars, sadly.

Then, Plaza B started in with their new nightclub blasting tortuous techno "music" very loud till very late. I know two teenagers (not together) who left those eventos because they were too loud!

I live right between these two places as well as near 2 other evento places, as well as a couple weekend party houses, so I personally have had to hear it all!! Enough, already!!!!

One poster mentioned the new soundproofing in bars in PV. Well, those places are probably already enclosed in order to run air conditioning!

If the current measures don't stick, I will happy to be speak directly with the "Department of Ecology" in Chapala, which handles noise issues, AKA "acoustic contamination", (as I have almost 20 years of experience performing with amplified music) about the use of soundproofing, which is how it's done in the US, where loud, amplified music technology was born. (I know, I lived in SF in the late 60s when and where this started, and observed the growth of local SF bands into major world-wide stars.)

The key to managing loud music is soundproofing the venues, an unheard of concept here, where, because of the balmy climate, everything is indoor-outdoor. The traditions worked beautifully when all the music was acoustic, or very mildly amplified. I believe at that time that neighbors were happy to get the free entertainment as it was a much more homogenous culture at that time.

For those who missed it, an article in the Guadalajara Reporter a few weeks ago stated that "Chapala puts rowdy noisemakers on notice" (June 21) and that the Worst Offenders have been advised that their licenses will be revoked if Chapala gets any more complaints! Also, each new permit issued includes a copy of the new Federal Noise Regulations.

Since the article came out, I am happy to report that their has been a reduction in noise in my area, La Zona Del Ruido. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this will last! Ojala!!!!!!!

The gringos here must understand that cohetes and fiestas, which are very temporary and fleeting, are a deep tradition all over Mexico since the Spaniards arrived, bringing with them gunpowder. Cohetes are always a sign of celebration, and muting them would be an affront to the local culture! Most Mexicans love these traditions. They already know that the gringos don't like them, but as one woman told me, "We are not going to change our traditions to suit the foreigners!"

You can read a humorous account of this here: http://ajijicnews.com/pages/kwaytays

The loudest and longest cohete display I ever heard was only a half hour! You can deal with it and get over it! If you ever went to a fiesta, you would see babies sleeping through the cohetes and bandas. I've seen dogs sleeping through them on the street near the church. Furthermore, the new Federal Laws allow for louder music at the traditional fiestas, but with a 4 hour limit.

Because of tight money, the fiestas have become a little more low key, as the people of the village/church put up their very own money for all fiesta expenses. Gringos often complain about the early morning celebrations, but most of the town is up at 6 a.m.! It's bad form to visit or live in a foreign country and then proceed to complain about the long standing traditions! Imagine Mexicans in the US complaining about July 4th! Someone would probably sic the KKK on them!

Paz y Harmonia a todos!!!!!

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