lcscats Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 If you think Manana means tomorrow yes it is frustrating because you expect something. Once I thought of it meaning someday it kinds made sense and is very Mexican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 nothing has changed today they say "ojala". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMexicali Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I find it odd that not one person here found it to be an acceptable way [non confrontational] to indicate that the person not showing up or providing a service is actually indicating they are not interested in dealing with it or you for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerGuy Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Interesting point, Alan, but I don't think it acceptable at all. I think it's chicken, if that's the intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Iy is a possibility especially when it is a contractor or a bureaucrat but less likely if it is someone who took an order from you. Since the lady called the op to tell her about the tiles coming in , I think it was more a situation where the person who took the order was waiting to hear from her supplier and did not want to communicate until she had something to say or at least something positive to say. You are right many people who do not want to deal witha situation or a person just do not answer but it does not seem to have be the case there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMexicali Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Interesting point, Alan, but I don't think it acceptable at all. I think it's chicken, if that's the intent. Yes to aggressive NOBers it would be considered that way but here when you figure out they have a way to say no once they find you to be not the same when the deal was struck, for example aggressive and "mal educado" or they cannot fit it in profitably they will resort to this on occasion. Most foreigners seem to not understand being "bien educado" and patient gets much better results and rude [by Mexican standards, not NOB standards] and aggressive/threatening people will sometimes be ignored and fed lines until the cows come home at times. patient: able to accept or tolerate delays, problems, or suffering without becoming annoyed or anxious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerGuy Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Have to disagree with that. The act of disappearing on a deal is mal educado in itself. This may have flown hundreds of years ago when you got your head chopped off for it. Up home, we don't call it aggressive; we call it being polite, right? But let me add that I don't think we should be saying "most foreigners" in these discussions. Sure, there are a bunch, but most of the people I know here do try to understand the culture. There's always going to be that bunch of losers who don't/won't. But we deal with many more morons every day back home, and I can't blame it on the culture there, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMexicali Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Have to disagree with that. The act of disappearing on a deal is mal educado in itself. This may have flown hundreds of years ago when you got your head chopped off for it. Up home, we don't call it aggressive; we call it being polite, right? But let me add that I don't think we should be saying "most foreigners" in these discussions. Sure, there are a bunch, but most of the people I know here do try to understand the culture. There's always going to be that bunch of losers who don't/won't. But we deal with many more morons every day back home, and I can't blame it on the culture there, lol. I have to disagree that most foreigners, especailly those that have lived here for less than several years, understand the greetings and small talk before getting to the business at hand and feel they need to let their business wait a few minutes until formalities here are covered, like, good morning I hope you are well. etc. Not starting with barging right in on where is my stuff you promised to get me last week? I presume the OP already has seen why patiences sometimes doesn´t work but I have to wonder how she approached each and every telephone call to the owner? With the normal bien educado or right to: When will my stuff arrive?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerGuy Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I said they try to understand, and yes, it does take a while to get the swing of things. But if you present your argument as suggesting that most foreigners wilfully commit these social faux pas, I don't agree. It took me some time, too. When I first arrived, I was asked to do sales work for the now defunct Chapala Review magazine. I discovered very quickly that a lot of business people use this "cultural difference" to try and get away with all kinds of crap. So for me the deal was this: "you advertise with us, and I come and collect once a month". I can't tell you how many times I had to return to a vast majority of these businesses to get paid: over and over and over again. The owner of one restaurant asked me once "But I'm not the worst, am I?" I'll tell you this: he paid the Coke delivery guy every single time. So why not me? Because I wasn't intrinsic to his business, but soft drinks were. He certainly understood the difference and based his actions accordingly. This was never a question of my ignorance of the cultural values here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMexicali Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I said they try to understand, and yes, it does take a while to get the swing of things. But if you present your argument as suggesting that most foreigners wilfully commit these social faux pas, I don't agree. It took me some time, too. When I first arrived, I was asked to do sales work for the now defunct Chapala Review magazine. I discovered very quickly that a lot of business people use this "cultural difference" to try and get away with all kinds of crap. So for me the deal was this: "you advertise with us, and I come and collect once a month". I can't tell you how many times I had to return to a vast majority of these businesses to get paid: over and over and over again. The owner of one restaurant asked me once "But I'm not the worst, am I?" I'll tell you this: he paid the Coke delivery guy every single time. So why not me? Because I wasn't intrinsic to his business, but soft drinks were. He certainly understood the difference and based his actions accordingly. This was never a question of my ignorance of the cultural values here. I also had to learn it through time and do not see where it is considered rude when foreign tourists do it repeatedly in my presences at the beach zones when we visit there but do see it as a good idea to pick up what is considered bien educado from discussions like these that have well meaning, experienced people participating regularly. Isn´t that the way to integrate here instead of alienate? Thanks for your insights. I presume both of us have things that we cannot relate to, yet, I am sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doberwoman Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 for us Mexicans, mañana means: when it is possible.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Delfina Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 besides medications...there is no hurry at all....people can survive several days without furniture, clothes and other fancy things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedros Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I understand it's Mexico but one shouldn't give their "word" and then when they break their "word", purposely not answer their phone. That is adding salt to injury. She will lose this sale. I was buying 7 glass tiles: 4 at 150 pesos and 3 at 480 pesos (ouch). Maybe another store will be happy to have my business. I bought a whole whack of other tiles + thinset + grout from this lady already but I guess if she can't get the expensive tiles, that's just too bad for her. No? Lying is standard practice here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbviajero Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Lying is standard practice here.That's quite a statement. I haven't found it to be case in my experience here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringal Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 That's quite a statement. I haven't found it to be case in my experience here. Evasion, yes. Lying...depends on the person. When a worker doesn't show and doesn't call, I give him a grace period. Then I find another worker who comes with a recommendation and a history of showing up to do the job at a reasonable approximation of the time promised. Seems like a reasonable compromise between what we came to expect NOB and the reality here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 unless he does something no one else does then I have more "patience". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles100 Posted June 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 So, the lady told me she'd have the tiles today; nope. Throughout, I was very cordial with the lady except today. Especially when she asked me if I wanted to pay for the tiles she doesn't have and she'd deliver then when they arrive. I almost LMAO. Like ... NOooooo I bought the 1 type of glass tiles she has had for 2 days and the other, no idea. I will be looking for a replacement. If they arrive before I find an alternative, then maybe I'll buy them. I also noticed she charged me 280 pesos for a type of tile she gave me a price of 150 pesos. I'm done with her. I've learned a few lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 remodelling is so much fun...now youcan start your list of the places not to go near so you do not get tempted to buy anything and even worst order anything... Go to Ninos Heroes in Guadalajara, you will find something on that street, hopefully they will have inventory..that is another optimistic thought.. Ojala as we say..that goes with mañana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobita Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I have to disagree that most foreigners, especailly those that have lived here for less than several years, understand the greetings and small talk before getting to the business at hand and feel they need to let their business wait a few minutes until formalities here are covered, like, good morning I hope you are well. etc. Not starting with barging right in on where is my stuff you promised to get me last week? I know this in theory, but I still often forget it in practice. Sometimes I realize after the fact that I must have appeared brusque, and mentally kick myself. Hopefully I will manage to retrain myself before I've been here too many years ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesarge7 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I too am learning to be patient with the "manana" custom. It still drives me crazy when I am promised something and they don't pull through. I understand now that it is a cultural thing and yes, it would do us good to adapt to it. So, I am trying, patiently trying!! I have found another cultural difference, and that is regarding boundaries. AS a full-time RVer, we travel around Mexico and stay at RV parks and campgrounds. We set up our spot, which usually has an awning and patio. WE have learned that the locals have no concept as to what our personal boundaries are. They walk right through our patio, sometimes between our furniture as we sit and eat dinner. Children will ride their bikes through. We have even hung up rope, etc.. to show that there is no passing, and they will just go over or under it. And when we explain this to them, they have no idea as to why we would be concerned with something like that. We laugh it off, because we figure that unless we build a 10-foot high wall, there is no way we can convince people passing by that we expect privacy and that they should not be passing through our little rented property. Has anyone else come across similar situation? Do you know the reasons behind this thinking? Is there a book around that talks about these cultural differences?? Somethings that explains the reasons behind these actions and how we can adapt? If not, maybe someone with writing skills should consider writing about this. Adios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerGuy Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 There is a book called There's A Word For It In Mexico that has exactly the answers you are looking for. It definitely explains why there are walls around all the houses (protection in the days of the Spaniards: out of sight, out of mind). The author tells us the importance behind key concepts, which helps a great deal to understand why Mexicans are the way they are. comida, abrazo, un poquito, negocios (business!) and familia... these words/chapters and many others are rich with eye-opening understanding http://www.amazon.com/Theres-Word-Mexico-Boye-Mente/dp/0844272515/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1403184697&sr=1-1&keywords=there%27s+a+word+for+it+in+mexico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osoprehistorico Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Best advice on topic I got was, "There is no sense in worrying about something over which you have no control." The small local shops are dependent on deliveries from GDL. Their mistake was promising something over which they have no control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Has anyone else come across similar situation? Do you know the reasons behind this thinking? Is there a book around that talks about these cultural differences?? Somethings that explains the reasons behind these actions and how we can adapt? Mexicans and Americans: Cracking the Cultural Code by Neil Crouch. It's written from a business perspective, but don't be put off by that. It's an easy read. It addresses many of the core differences, about how we view such fundamental things as time and (personal) space differently. http://www.amazon.com/Mexicans-Americans-Cracking-Culture-Code/dp/185788342X I don't share ComputerGuy's opinion about There's a Word for that in Mexico. There are a lot of other books out there also. eagles100: If it makes you feel any better, yesterday I was having lunch and someone came in griping about the "manana service". He was very frustrated. And this is a person who has owned at least two businesses locally and has lived here 13 years. So he has to have endured it a lot. By the end of lunch, he was laughing about it, saying, "I don't know who to blame....him.....or myself for believing bla bla bla...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerGuy Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I don't share ComputerGuy's opinion about There's a Word for that in Mexico. There are a lot of other books out there also. You don't share my opinion? All I said is there is a book that explains these things. Are you saying the book is wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVGRINGO Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Possessiveness is a rather unknown trait among most indigenous cultures, where sharing or cooperative attitudes prevail. If something is open, outside or left unattended, another might simply pick it up and put it to use and later leave it in another place. Our possessiveness tends to call that stealing, which it was actually not. An example: Why does every house in a USA cul de sac, or a suburban block, feel the need to have a very expensive riding lawn tractor/mower, when one could be shared and do the job for all of them? In some countries, seashore or riverside may not be owned privately and fenced fields must have stiles to permit pedestrians/hikers to pass freely, or even unlocked gates for equestrians. So, the RV park experience is understandable. The perceived trespassers, however, would knock at the rV door and never think of entering without invitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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