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Nationalizing car locally


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Sticking with facts, many of Sonia's quoted "54 imports" were UCD campesino permits. During this past year, Sonia has offered a variety of "deals" over time, and those "deals" have changed as some became unworkable or illegal. Sonia was temporarily "nationalizing" Japanese manufactured J cars and German manufactured cars - included in the "54". In the meantime, Sonia has said that she can no longer import Japanese or German cars.

Some customers also had problems registering and licensing cars in their home states when using the UCD campesino permits from Sonia. Since some of her processes are no longer working, it's important to know the details of what Sonia currently offers, and to know the current restrictions or limitations, as things change rapidly here.

Both bournemouth and I asked earlier if Sonia's current "nationalization" process(es) allow us to register our cars in Jalisco and in states across Mexico, to keep the police from questioning why we have out-of-state plates, or US registrations & plates, for our paper-only-process "nationalized" cars.

Joco implied that they can, by saying Sonia uses a "federal" process, but we know people who had their cars "nationalized" in paper-only "federal" processes and got "federal" Estado de Mexico plates that are now not honored in all states. Is it "malicious" to point out factual mistakes, that mislead people into thinking Sonia's process will work for them? Even Sonia is now rejecting some requests, for circumstances she accepted in the past. I don't think the key questions have been answered yet.

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Snowyco has completely distorted what Sonia has told us. She has written that the Amparo which allowed imports from Japan, Germany, is expected to expire - possibly as soon as the end of May. Sonia and her husband have had a great reputation, for a number of years. I would encourage anyone with questions to approach her directly and get information from the horse's mouth, not from the horses's - well you know where.

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Actually, I have found it is just the opposite. Snowyco uses a very narrow interpretation of the law, ie "It is illegal to spit on sidewalks on a Sunday". The rest of Mexico uses what an excellent poster called the "puddle" principle - if you reach a puddle, don't make a big splash, walk around it, ie "On Sundays, spit using a spitoon".

Sometimes I think he is being malicious, like the kid in school who like to scream "I told you so!", or the fire and brimstone preacher, laughing as you enter the gates of hell, but I think the real problem is that he has a scientific mind, and is not used to tha vagaries of "the law", especially in Mexico, where the rule of law is not quite complete.

Sticking with facts, not hyperbole, or supposition, I have 3 different sets of friends who used these "federal" "paper-only-processes", who paid heavy $$ fees, with tangled documentation, and are now stuck with vehicles that they cannot register in their home states and are hassled by the police.

It's easy to say that someone is being "overly-narrow in interpreting the law", but that's different from being practical and cautious. When 3 sharp couples (friends) wind up with their vehicles in a pickle, with no reasonable way out, that's a reality I think most people would choose to avoid. These couples are each out between $25,000 - $35,000 pesos, from using "paper-only-processes" , like Sonia's, offered by 3 different brokers, and they are all stuck over very real legal problems, that go way beyond "illegal to spit on sidewalks on a Sunday".

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from using "paper-only-processes" , like Sonia's,

How could you possibly know that - you have never communicated with the woman? Saying that, I doubt very much if she would talk to you anyways. I am very close to that point myself. You are impossible to engage with in a mature, civil manner.

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How could you possibly know that - you have never communicated with the woman? Saying that, I doubt very much if she would talk to you anyways. I am very close to that point myself. You are impossible to engage with in a mature, civil manner.

Again, please stick with facts, stay on the topic, and stop making it personal. I have communicated with Sonia and her husband, repeatedly, on and off for the past 18 months by phone, writing, and the internet forums. I simply have not communicated with them in the last 2 months, and I don't know the current details or limits of how her process(es) work.

This thread is about "Nationalizing a car locally", and Sonia seems to have a process that works well in SMA => on topic and pertinent, since we don't know if her current process works here.

Please, stop writing falsehoods and stick with reality.

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You want reality - many months ago I told you and the board that the customs broker and lawyer at the airport (a major national company by the way), the one who actually successfully nationalized the car, said that my car could not be nationalised at this time (even though I have a Canadian VIN) but that it could be regulated so that I could get plates of authorized movement in Jalisco. The cost would be appr. $2,500. I do not need nationalization or regularizing, so I haven't bothered to see what this about. Obviously no one else has followed this important bit of information. It seems to imply you can import nearly anything but you may (and I am guessing) be restricted to only driving in the State of Jalisco - which for many people would be no big deal. It might also lessen the value of vehicle if you go to sell it (again - only guessing).

You obviously have the time and interest, why don't you follow up on this?

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Several of you are doing a very good job of setting this thread up to be closed.

I agree,it's an important topic to some of us and the unending squabbles of three posters are ruining the thread.

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Why doesn't Snowy contact Sonia, as Joco suggested, so he can post on Exactly what she can and can not do, instead of quoting unnamed sources. Those "un named" sources lend no facts to support his claims. It is all just his opinion without facts to support.

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SnowyCo cannot understand that Sonia has performed several types of legalization.

She can plate vehicles with UCD plates in the states where there is a USC office, if that is what the person wants. There is not a UCD office in Jalisco and UCD plates are not available in Jalisco.

Sonia was able to nationalize J vehicles but that amparo is over and she no longer offers that service.

Sonia can nationalize NAFTA vehicles without the vehicle going to the border but that is over by the end of May.

There is nothing complicated in understanding what she offers and I haven't read of any unhappy customers. She has nationalized, not UCD plated, over 54 vehicles nationally. I can't help it is some people do not know the difference in nationalizing and getting a UCD plate.

After May I'm sure she will find a way to nationalize but the amparo she is using now will be over.

Testimonials:

John Gillingham’s email email to a perspective client, Mar 6, 2014 (he nationalized a non-NAFTA 2003 Toyota Highlander):
Sonia did a good job for us. The cost was around $US 2,800 and that included a Mexican driving license and the whole re-registration and GTO plates. The alternative was disposing of my car outside of Mexico and then buying a replacement in Mexico. I figure she saved me in excess of twenty thousand dollars, and I would never have been able to do the job myself, even though my wife's speaks Spanish fluently.
Let us know if you have any other questions.
Best regards.......John G.
Email April 2, 2014:
Hi Sonia - I recieved the Factura yesterday and today completed everything and have Mexico plates (see attached photo)! Thank you for your help. You did everything you said you would do, were very professional and extremely responsive. This eliminates a huge burden on us - no one else seemed able to help until we ran into you. Thank you again!
David Teater
Hi Sonia,
We went to get our plates and guess what, it went as it should, without any problems!!! So we are now legal to drive out of the area again.
I want to thank you for all your work as you know I had my doubts from time to time. You always were very professional and got back to me quickly on my many emails. Although, it took much longer than we thought, you came through and did what you said you would do and that is get our plates.
The plates cost us $1,700 peso's and the papers we needed to take with us were:
Title to the car (they took a copy and we kept the orig.)
Factura
Pedimento
Pass Port
Curp card
Phone bill (2 months)
Permanent Resident card
Once again, thank you, and feel free to give my email address to anyone that may be having problems and I will tell them our experience with you and give you a good recommendation.
Jeff
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I am sorry, I have not spent much time on this. But this regularizing of vehicles seems to depend on this (open in new tab):

http://translate.google.com.mx/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.aduanas.gob.mx/aduana_mexico/2008/vehiculos/141_10174.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dregularizacion%2Bde%2Bautos%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3Dowq%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dnp%26biw%3D1254%26bih%3D883

Note that the vehicle cannot be under temporary import status - but for the big customs brokers, no problem. They have big, bonded areas where they can "Export" (might be nothing more than a shuffle of papers) and turn in TIP papers, then another area where they can "Import", and apply the regularizacion. Sort of a 'virtual' border. Any funny business, they lose their bond. The big brokers can be quite tricky about this - remember, this happened to me - a broker in Manzanillo called me to say that they could not complete my transaction (import auto parts), this was too small for them, this was their company policy. He fired the junior broker who had accepted the transaction, and left the parts in customs so the price was astronomical - I walked away.

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Readers should note that Joco's repeated comments on these issues are just not factual:

Joco wrote:

... I'm not giving advice. I'm giving an option that people can check out for themselves. Below is how many she has nationalized and people can ask her for proof. She appears to be very upfront and I haven't read about any negative experiences.

Please note that Joco's "options", advice and definitive statements simply do not fit facts.

If you follow the past year of Sonia Diaz's consistent comments, consider that Sonia has prided herself on being the sole person who represented UCD in getting the UCD Campesion Union "nationalization" process recognized by the Mex. Fed. Government. ...

Sonia clearly has used the UCD campesino route to "nationalize" vehicles, and she may also use other "paper-only" routes.

Really, Sonia should speak for herself on these matters ....

So, according to Sonia's local representative: She will legally only be able to do the paper-only imports for a few more weeks. Sonia also does not import Japanese or German or Korean cars any more. Sonia's services and legal options are changing monthly.

To further clarify Sonia's services, potential clients should note that Sonia offers only the Mexican part of the legal requirements, and she does not do the US government required US legal half of the process. Sonia's customers confirm that she does not do the required legal-export of used US cars, as required by US Homeland Security/CBP law. Licensed customs brokers at the US-Mexico border follow both US laws and Mexican laws, so the full service is easily commonly provided to their customers by licensed brokers at all US-Mexico border crossings.

If you want the full job done, to avoid the potential US federal felony charges, use someone who follows both US and Mexican requirements:

US Requirements for Exporting a Motor Vehicle

CBP Website: Interpretation and Application of 19 CFR Part 192

"Section 192.2 Requirements for Exportation

Basic requirements

A person attempting to export a used self-propelled vehicle shall present to Customs, at the port of exportation, both the vehicle and the required documentation describing the vehicle to include the VIN or, if the vehicle does not have a VIN, the product identification number (PIN). Exportation of a vehicle will be permitted only upon compliance with these requirements..."

http://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/export-docs/motor-vehicle

US CBP supervisors at 2 different border crossings have been telling Americans for over 6 months that they must file formal export paperwork, before any personal vehicle is imported into Mexico, or potentially face federal charges. Homeland Security and CBP have surprising powers from the Patriot Act, that give me pause.

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Sonia does not have a local representative anymore than someone giving a restaurant review is a representative of that restaurant. Telling people about another source for a service does not mean the person works for that service. There are threads here where people recommend plumbers but the person offering information about a plumber does not work for the plumber. Understand?

As usual I can't read all that you wrote, ZZZZ, but at least you have caught on to what was posted at the beginning, that Sonia is offering virtual nationalization under an amparo until the end of May, that UCD plates are not nationalizing a vehicle and UCD plates are available only in the states with a UCD office and that Sonia is no longer offering nationalizing of "J" vehicles.

We have local attorneys to give us legal advice, attorneys who can read.

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As usual I can't read all that you wrote, ZZZZ, but at least you have caught on to what was posted at the beginning, that Sonia is offering virtual nationalization under an amparo until the end of May, that UCD plates are not nationalizing a vehicle and UCD plates are available only in the states with a UCD office and that Sonia is no longer offering nationalizing of "J" vehicles.

We have local attorneys to give us legal advice, attorneys who can read.

It's important to read and know the law. By reading the 1 paragraph Homeland Security CBP reference, we can read for ourselves that: Americans importing their used car into Mexico must first formally register the export of the used vehicle with the US government as they leave the USA, or face potential federal charges.

Sorry you slept through the part that Sonia does not, and has not, offered this key required service, meaning she only does half of the legal requirements, leaving her paper-only clients open to future federal prosecutions.

Bottom Line: bdlington's original concerns about wanting a process that is fully legal and complete seems to rule out Sonia's various processes.

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This "homeland' story does not withstand the scrutiny of common sense. An American couple drives in to Mexico to check it out. Likes the environment, wants to live here permanently and legally, according to Mexican law. They find that they have to legalize/regularize their automobile. They are careful to choose a licensed broker, or a facilitator whose has a good reputation. Whether the border, or the airport, or a port - they receive Mexican registration, Mexican plates. So far, no mention of 'homeland' registration, etc., they are doing everything they were told to do to comply with Mexican law. This will only become an issue if they return to the U.S. and the extremely unlikely event they get pulled over with Mexican plates, Mexican registration and Mexican insurance covering them while in the U.S.A. The one that pulled them over would have to suspect that this was a stolen car in order to ask the higher ups to dig deeper into V.I.N. histories etc. That is the only thing they would have to worry about, and they would have to have known before they left the U.S.. No court in the U.S. would prosecute someone who accidently broke a U.S. law, by following a Mexican one, I believe there is even a legal principle for this.

Sure Homeland Security would like every vehicle which enters Mexico to be "certified stolen free" - but that will only happen when Mexico starts checking U.S. data - to which they are probably lot allowed access. Does the U.S.A. check with Mexico data for stolen in Mexico vehicles - I doubt it very much.

Another example of don't let the facts or common sense get in the way of a good, scary story.

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It's important to read and know the law. By reading the 1 paragraph Homeland Security CBP reference, we can read for ourselves that: Americans importing their used car into Mexico must first formally register the export of the used vehicle with the US government as they leave the USA, or face potential federal charges.

Sorry you slept through the part that Sonia does not, and has not, offered this key required service, meaning she only does half of the legal requirements, leaving her paper-only clients open to future federal prosecutions.

Bottom Line: bdlington's original concerns about wanting a process that is fully legal and complete seems to rule out Sonia's various processes.

Sonia's husband sent you an email explaining what Sonia does and wrote it very clearly. Too bad it is still confusing to you but I think all of us who do understand it have explained it as much as we can.

Sonia has nationalized over 50 vehicles that are all plated in the states they are in. The vehicles are all legal and that is what is important to the owners.

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US legal precedents show that "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

Many people prefer to follow the law.

Many people don't like the Dick Nixon approach of "it's OK, as long as you don't get caught".

Many of us prefer to drive with confidence, not looking over our shoulder, nor worrying about if the police will catch us.

One clear key topic of the OP's requirements is that any paper-only process be complete and fully legal.

Sonia's processes, as described by Joco, do not meet these key requirements.

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post script:

  • The US CBP requires a physical inspection of US used cars being imported into Mexico.
  • The US CBP only inspects cars at the US-Mexico border,
  • This seems to mean that all "local" "paper-only" "nationalization" & "legalization" processes for permanent vehicle imports do not meet US federal legal requirements - unless the US car is taken to the border and inspected by the CBP.
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It's important to read and know the law. By reading the 1 paragraph Homeland Security CBP reference, we can read for ourselves that: Americans importing their used car into Mexico must first formally register the export of the used vehicle with the US government as they leave the USA, or face potential federal charges.

Sorry you slept through the part that Sonia does not, and has not, offered this key required service, meaning she only does half of the legal requirements, leaving her paper-only clients open to future federal prosecutions.

Bottom Line: bdlington's original concerns about wanting a process that is fully legal and complete seems to rule out Sonia's various processes.

I doubt Mexican brokers worry about following U.S. Homeland Security laws anymore than U.S. Customs concerns itself with Mexican laws. How many people who had vehicles nationalized at the border knew to follow any U.S. laws to do it? I bet the answer is none.

Do you recall reading any of this from Sonia's husband?

No one nationalizing from with in Mexico including those at Guadalajara airport export. Canadians do not have to export.
Those who take their car to places like Laredo and have the broker present the car to Nuevo Laredo Aduana for 3 hours do not export. The vast majority of cars nationalized have not been exported.
Quite focusing on my wife. It was you on your web board Yucalandia who recommended her. Focus on all the other people who do not export and stop the obsession.
And if you do not know the difference between a UCD permit vs nationalizing then please learn vs trying to constantly discredit Sonia.
Enough

Also from Sonia's husband and doesn't this make sense?

1. Canadian cars are not exported
2. Cars nationalized at Guadalajara airport are not exported. Others nationalizing from within Mexico are not exported.
3. Most cars nationalized at border are not nationalized (exported) That is a 3 day process and cars nationalized at the border are normally taken to say Nuevo Laredo for 3 hours by the broker and obviously not exported. Very few cars nationalized are ever exported.
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US legal precedents show that "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

Many people prefer to follow the law.

Many people don't like the Dick Nixon approach of "it's OK, as long as you don't get caught".

Many of us prefer to drive with confidence, not looking over our shoulder, nor worrying about if the police will catch us.

One clear key topic of the OP's requirements is that any paper-only process be complete and fully legal.

Sonia's processes, as described by Joco, do not meet these key requirements.

I never described Sonia's process because I don't know exactly what it is and I don't care. I told people about her in case anyone wanted to contact her and possibly use her services. I don't understand why this issue is so important to you especially since you do not live in this area and you have your own board to post on.

You can always call or email Sonia and find out exactly what she does but I guess that would take away your reasons for keeping this nonsense up.

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Snoco, would you answer 2 questions for me? I'm just curious because you post so MUCH here.

(1) Do you live in the Lakeside area, or have you lived here recently for a long time?

(2) Do you have a life outside this Board, like do you do other things besides posting here and looking up facts to meet your requirements and posting them here? i.e. is this Board your life?

Thanks in advance for answering, maybe that will help me understand better why you are here posting so much. :)

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Snoco, would you answer 2 questions for me? I'm just curious because you post so MUCH here.

(1) Do you live in the Lakeside area, or have you lived here recently for a long time?

(2) Do you have a life outside this Board, like do you do other things besides posting here and looking up facts to meet your requirements and posting them here? i.e. is this Board your life?

Thanks in advance for answering, maybe that will help me understand better why you are here posting so much. :)

Snowyco, I also have a question. What is your name or the name of your business? I believe that you and Sonia (whom I don't know either) are competitors. Am I correct?

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