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Forced to go Permanente?!


Intercasa

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Seems that could be a problem for those who do that on a continual basis. How about Canadians who do that? Seems that would really cause a firestorm if they put a stop to that. Someone would have to tract an individual's travel movement on a computer or there would be no tourists.

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Seems that could be a problem for those who do that on a continual basis. How about Canadians who do that? Seems that would really cause a firestorm if they put a stop to that. Someone would have to tract an individual's travel movement on a computer or there would be no tourists.

There is no " would have to track" our travel movements "on a computer", INM and Aduana both already track our travel movements on computers.

All legal foreign resident's movements are tracked in Mexico:

We are legally required to register our movements every time we fly out of Mexico.

We are legally required to register our movements every time we drive out of Mexico.

We are legally required to register our movements every time we move to a new location in Mexico.

We are legally required to register our movements every time we fly into Mexico.

We are legally required to register our movements every time we drive into Mexico.

All of these are tracked by both INM and Aduana computers for both tourists and Residente Temporales & Permanentes,

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Dho not be surprised if the next thing to be looked at are the tourists going back and forth every 180

days.

I agree. That would seem to be the next logical move.

I think the changes in both car and human permits for Mexico have been changed to make "Temporary" literally temporary - and that there is no need to be concerned about the already "temporary" visitante tourist permits.

People in the past got temporary permits for residence and cars that were originally designed as truly temporary permits, designed and intended to help American managers et al temporarily coming to Mexico as a part of the NAFTA accords - Americans & Canadians working here temporarily in the maquiladoras or dealing with maquiladoras.

INM and Aduana officials have repeatedly stated in the past that the intent of those "temporary" permits (both for vehicles and residency) were never intended to be used as pseudo-permanent hall-passes for American and Canadian retirees to bring their cars here permanently, escaping paying import duties and avoiding paying fees or registrations for using Mexican roads and services. INM officials have said that they never intended for the Temporary residency permits to also be used by US retirees as perpetually rolling-renewal ways around getting permanent visas.

The intent of "temporary" was that these permits be short-term, and some INM officials found the continuous rolling-over of perpetual renewals to be far from their policy goals. The most recent changes that Spencer describes are perfectly in-line and consistent with this previously stated INM policies and goals: Prevent foreigners from using Residente Temporal and FM2/FM3 visas as ways to live in Mexico permanently, without actually qualifying to be Permanent residents.

From factual and historical perspectives, there is no reason to expect them to change the policies on tourist's temporary permits, because they actually are temporary.

INM and Aduana simply want people who bring cars here temporarily, and who use public resources without paying for them, to only use these priviledges temporarily, not ad infinitum as some gringos desire.

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I think the rules will change again because many foreigners have moved out of Mexico according to this report. I know more this year who are planning to leave than I knew last year. This costs Mexico billions of dollars that is paid into the economy by people who cost very little and who contribute a lot.

Go to page 19, page 19 that is written at the bottom of the document page.

http://www.politicamigratoria.gob.mx/work/models/SEGOB/CEM/PDF/Estadisticas/Sintesis_Graficas/Sintesis_2013.pdf

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I know many that are snowbirds and now some have residente permanente status. In reality you are a permanent resident of one country or another not both. You could never have a foreign vehicle as long as some have in too many other countries. In the USA if you move from state to state you must register your vehicle in the new state. People have had it easy for so long here. We knew when we moved here about the J car. It is not a new issue.

I think this is making people that were on the fence to finally decide where they want to live. This is a good thing.

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I know many that are snowbirds and now some have residente permanente status. In reality you are a permanent resident of one country or another not both. You could never have a foreign vehicle as long as some have in too many other countries. In the USA if you move from state to state you must register your vehicle in the new state. People have had it easy for so long here. We knew when we moved here about the J car. It is not a new issue.

I think this is making people that were on the fence to finally decide where they want to live. This is a good thing.

This is Mexico, not Canada or the USA. A license tag pays a small tax. That is it. No big deal. The foreigners will obey the law and have their vehicles nationalized for a few thousands dollars but the hundreds of USA tags we see on the roads, the chocolates, are all illegal and they will not be nationalized. You would think if having a Mexican tag was important then all the chocolates would be off the roads but they are not and they won't be. Mexico figured out it can make money off us again and we will pay up but Mexico's citizens won't pay.

In the USA and Canada people pay more to drive on safe roads that have night lighting. We don't worry about bribing cops or being stopped because the cop wants lunch money. There is a huge difference between driving in the US and Canada and driving in Mexico.

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I heard today and yesterday that now, the interpretation of Permanente is NOT the same as Imigrado, therefore, unlike the FM2 (imigrado), holders of Premanente ARE allowed to have a foreign car. I also heard that the paperwork can be submitted to make your foreign car legal to drive in Mexico on a Permanente.

Has anyone else heard this rumor and have any info?

Cheers

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Exactly where did you hear this? Please track the source and refrain from spreading false rumors and false hope. Too many of us want it to be true.

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I heard today and yesterday that now, the interpretation of Permanente is NOT the same as Imigrado, therefore, unlike the FM2 (imigrado), holders of Premanente ARE allowed to have a foreign car. I also heard that the paperwork can be submitted to make your foreign car legal to drive in Mexico on a Permanente.

Has anyone else heard this rumor and have any info?

Cheers

I have stacks of written resolutions from aduana that say otherwise.

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I heard today and yesterday that now, the interpretation of Permanente is NOT the same as Imigrado, therefore, unlike the FM2 (imigrado), holders of Premanente ARE allowed to have a foreign car. I also heard that the paperwork can be submitted to make your foreign car legal to drive in Mexico on a Permanente.

Has anyone else heard this rumor and have any info?

Cheers

I think whoever told you this had the types of "visas" confused. Previously a retired person could keep a foreign plated vehicle with an FM2 as long as he did not work.

A permanente is the same as the previous inmigrado and neither can have a foreign plated vehicle.

http://chflawyers.com/423/migratory-reform-permanent-resident/

The new Permanent Resident classification in the Mexican immigration system will take the place of the old Inmigrado status. The remaining text of Article 52 of the new migratory law mentions the classification of PERMANENT RESIDENT, the foreigner who may remain in Mexico for an indefinite length of time, but later on in the law it is explained a little better:

http://chflawyers.com/423/migratory-reform-permanent-resident/

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...holders of Premanente ARE allowed to have a foreign car. I also heard that the paperwork can be submitted to make your foreign car legal to drive in Mexico on a Permanente.

Maybe Bobflyboy is talking about nationalizing a vehicle. Assuming the vehicle qualifies for nationalization, it would no longer be "foreign" and would become "Mexican" and makes the rest of the statement accurate.

It's impossible to tell from what was written by Bobflyboy, and heard, via the rumor mill.

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This is Mexico, not Canada or the USA. A license tag pays a small tax. That is it. No big deal. The foreigners will obey the law and have their vehicles nationalized for a few thousands dollars but the hundreds of USA tags we see on the roads, the chocolates, are all illegal and they will not be nationalized. You would think if having a Mexican tag was important then all the chocolates would be off the roads but they are not and they won't be. Mexico figured out it can make money off us again and we will pay up but Mexico's citizens won't pay.

In the USA and Canada people pay more to drive on safe roads that have night lighting. We don't worry about bribing cops or being stopped because the cop wants lunch money. There is a huge difference between driving in the US and Canada and driving in Mexico.

Thank you. Why people continue to compare apples to oranges is baffling. MX is a developing country, not a developed one. It needs money. We are its cash cow. Charging the equivalent of what, $3000 US, to nationalize a US plated car, especially an old one, is a money maker. For some reason, I can't see that kind of dinero going toward better roads, or lighting them, but I can see it making pockets a little heavier.

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The reality is that the importers make the big $$$, if you examine the pedimentos the importers lie about the value of the car, pay maximum $200US in federal taxes and pocket the rest.

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The reality is that the importers make the big $$$, if you examine the pedimentos the importers lie about the value of the car, pay maximum $200US in federal taxes and pocket the rest.

Didn't you post that we can nationalize our own vehicles now and not use a broker?

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In legal theory, private individuals can permanently import their own eligible NAFTA vehicles into Mexico. Spencer's good post gave us the update on the changes in Mexican legal rules. Spencer's very helpful update on Aduana legal rules was clearly not meant to be a Do It Yourself (DIY) guide, as it did not contain any details on what one needs to do, how to do it of all the steps involved , nor how long it takes. We should not try to stretch a helpful update of one aspect of all Jan. 1, 2014 Ley Aduanera and SAT changes into advice for DIY processes. Spencer only reported one small legal change to the Mexican side to multiple complex legal processes, a change eliminating Customs Brokers monopoly. A change that had the possibility of pushing Customs Brokers to lower their fees due to competition and market forces.

Why not Do It Yourself? First, there are 2 sets of paperwork: The paperwork on the Mexican side is supposedly a real bear, difficult to learn for just one importation, with lot's of questions where you need to know Aduana's unusual government-speak Spanish languaging of things. The paperwork on the US side (to export your car) is supposedly even worse in the mandatory process to get your US title cancelled to legally import it into Mexico. Some Americans in the past did not do the American paperwork to export their cars, and wait for the US govt. to process the application, but it's a US federal felony to import the vehicle into Mexico without formally exporting it from the USA first. Then consider that when the US clerks and Mexican clerks who process all the forms see a strange new name for the person filing the paperwork, it generally causes them to take 3 to 5 days to check, process, and approve(?), the first-time filer paperwork The combination of quirky difficult Mexican Gob. import paperwork plus additional wretched worse US govt. export paperwork, plus the 3-5 days it can take to do the paperwork processing, plus additional days, plus possible rejection if the filer makes a mistake, all work together to make paying a good Customs Broker, using just 3-5 hours of the car-owner's time, appear to be a winner.

It's up to each person to decide whether to take the route Joco points to that takes us through an unpalatable difficult reality, or to pay an expert. This information comes from a friend who regularly imports and exports cars, so you'll have to talk with him about the references, sources, and citations. He's available to do car movements in both import and export directions (in or out of Mexico).

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It's up to each person to decide whether to take the route Joco points to that takes us through an unpalatable difficult reality, or to pay an expert. This information comes from a friend who regularly imports and exports cars, so you'll have to talk with him about the references, sources, and citations. He's available to do car movements in both import and export directions (in or out of Mexico).

Thank you Spencer for answering but unfortunately that is not what I asked.

I asked if you, Spencer, posted that people can now import their own vehicles without using a broker and you did not answer if you did indeed post that. I did not ask about the ins and outs of nationalizing.

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I have actually seen the "paper work" that the importer turns in to the government when he pays, and anyone that can read spanish and follow directions can do it. It's not a "bear" as some would lead you to believe.

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We have drifted. This is about becoming Residente Permanente.

Nationalizing cars should be a separate topic.

Maybe the mods will create a new topic and move the appropriate postings.

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Sorry, sometimes when you jump in and don't read the OP, you screw up. I did. Will try to do better. :(

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I have actually seen the "paper work" that the importer turns in to the government when he pays, and anyone that can read spanish and follow directions can do it. It's not a "bear" as some would lead you to believe.

For future readers and searches, remember that the Mexican side of the Import process is easier than other half, the US CBP required Export from the USA process:

"We must formally register the exporting of our cars/pickups with Customs & Border Patrol (CBP) BEFORE we can legally import them into Mexico.

19 CFR 192.2 – “Requirements for Exportation

(a) Basic requirements. A person attempting to export a used self-propelled vehicle shall present to Customs, at the port of exportation, both the vehicle and the required documentation describing the vehicle, which includes the Vehicle Identification Number or, if the vehicle does not have a Vehicle Identification Number, the product identification number.

Exportation of a vehicle will be permitted only upon compliance with these requirements, …”

"Failure to comply with this US Export law is a felony."

In this process, you surrender your US vehicle title, which they cancel. Licensed Customs Brokers do this routinely, while some unlicensed "facilitators" tell their customers to ignore the law, allowing then to charge less by doing only half the job.

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