Michoacan for dummies .... and I am one of them

[valbogyo]

Alex, this is such old news and has been written about, commented on and addressed so many times.

Take any position, seach for articles to support it, and you will find it.. Do you understand that some of the leaders, for this movement, have known eachother for most of their lives? There are few surprises.

They gave a very good explanation for appointing a new spokesman. I do not know why there needs to be some other, hidden, reason.

[valbogyo]

Is it time to close this thread?

When Rony started the topic, there was little in the english language news, for we expats. Now, the LaTimes, New York Times and CNN are reporting on a semi regular basis.

I feel that this has just become a place, now, to post links to articles that anyone can find..... easily if interested. Some of the resent posts are really stale and have been available for weeks. Its not new anymore.

Its becoming a political discussion. Yuck.

[Don Cuevas]

Al contrario. I'm just beginning to learn something useful.

[Mainecoons]

There are still frequent stories in El Informador. We are finding it great Spanish reading study to follow this story.

There's a great deal of skepticism being expressed towards the Federal and army role in most of these stories.

[Travis]

FWIW, Apatzingán is in the news big time today.

[alex45920]

Thanks for the tip Travis. Today's news is that the army, the federal police and the Autodefensas, working together, have occupied Apatzingan, sealed off the entries and exits, and are rounding up the criminals. Among those arrested is Antonio Plancarte, the brother of Enrique Plancarte.

Here's the link to the CNN Mexico story:

http://mexico.cnn.com/nacional/2014/02/08/autodefensas-entran-a-apatzingan-con-el-ejercito-y-la-policia-federal

[alex45920]

Interesting report from Insight Crime...

Mexico Vigilantes' Protection Fees Echo Colombia's Paramilitaries

http://www.insightcrime.org/news-briefs/mexico-vigilantes-protection-fees-echo-colombias-paramilitaries

[Don Cuevas]

Doesn't that article confuse "vigilantes" (AKA auto defense groups) with cartels such as the Caballeros Templarios?

[alex45920]

I think the article is clear enough...the Autodefensas have chased away the Templarios and are now collecting protection money from the mining companies. In effect, they are acting as the new cartel. This has been the fear of the Mexican government once the Autodefensas became well armed and began expanding their territory. When the government tried to disarm the Autodefensas, they refused. Now the government is trying to legitimize the Autodefensas and put them under the control of the military. To international human rights observers, they (the Autodefensas) are repeating a familiar scenario that led to the infamous "death squads" of Colombia, Guatemala and Peru.

There is a good deal of information available on this aspect of the struggle in Michoacan but I have been reluctant to introduce it into the discussion on this forum due to the resistance of people here to accept any criticism of the Autodefensas.

[AlanMexicali]

I think the article is clear enough...the Autodefensas have chased away the Templarios and are now collecting protection money from the mining companies. In effect, they are acting as the new cartel. This has been the fear of the Mexican government once the Autodefensas became well armed and began expanding their territory. When the government tried to disarm the Autodefensas, they refused. Now the government is trying to legitimize the Autodefensas and put them under the control of the military. To international human rights observers, they (the Autodefensas) are repeating a familiar scenario that led to the infamous "death squads" of Colombia, Guatemala and Peru.

There is a good deal of information available on this aspect of the struggle in Michoacan but I have been reluctant to introduce it into the discussion on this forum due to the resistance of people here to accept any criticism of the Autodefensas.

"... acting as the new cartel." is not my understanding of the article. They are contracted by the mining companies to protect themselves from the extortionists and have the right to arrange a contract or cancel a contract at will and are not being extorted by fear of retribution. Apples to oranges in my way of thinking.

[alex45920]

Metaphorically speaking, I'd go with "green apples to red apples...to rotten apples."

[cbviajero]

I think the article is clear enough...the Autodefensas have chased away the Templarios and are now collecting protection money from the mining companies. In effect, they are acting as the new cartel.

According to the article the mining companies were paying $2 per ton of ore to the templarios but are now paying $3 to 5 per ton to the autodefenses to protect them from the templarios,what a deal..

[alex45920]

Following the links highlighted in the Insight Crime article will get you to stuff like this:

"In taking control of a town, the Autodefensas are led by a group called H3 who, before becoming a part of the Autodefensas, were known as Los Viagras, a group of assassins who were working for the Knights Templar."

Perhaps they got a better deal from AUS.

[cbviajero]

Deleted n/a

[alex45920]

Follow the links in the Insight Crime story and you may find stuff like this:

The meeting took place, again according to Mireles, Friday June 7, 2013 at the premises of the company in Tepalcatepec where it operates "four major mines in the region."

The Self Defense Council asked the representatives of the mining company "to stop financially supporting organized crime, which they flatly refused, arguing reasons of personal and family security."

Because of this response, "the Citizen Self-Defense Council decided to cancel all mining operations in our region (ore extraction, ore grinding, storage and transportation of the same to Monclova, Coahuila ) indefinitely ."

(Alan,..I'm no legal expert but it kinda sounds like extortion to me. )

[Rony]

hmm..... this is all a bit becoming like Valgal said. .... the world upside down.

Alex, you take a certain point of view, find articles to support your view and colour it a little bit.

And something that could happen is already considered as a present reality, while it might never take place.

Wouldn't " jumping the gun " be an accurate and polite description of this kind of observations ?

Rony

[alex45920]

Sorry Cowboy...didn't mean to turn your fantasy world upside down.

[Rony]

Sorry Cowboy...didn't mean to turn your fantasy world upside down.

You are forgiven.

[Rony]

We all need to keep an open mind on things.

If EPN is able to clean out Michoacan, with or without autodefensas, I will take off my cowboy hat (and will try to forget where he came from)..

[alex45920]

Amen, bro.

[alex45920]

The Mexican press is abuzz with the revelation that Juan Jose Farias is one of the founders and leaders of the Autodefensas and, in fact, has been negotiating with the government on their behalf. Who is Juan Jose Farias? "El Abuelo," as he is known, is a longtime narcotraficante who has deep ties to the New Generation cartel. Here's a link to one of the more translatable news stories.

Spanish:

http://www.sinembargo.mx/08-02-2014/898165

Google translation:

http://translate.google.com.mx/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=es-419&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sinembargo.mx%2F08-02-2014%2F898165

In an interview with Carmen Aristegui, AUS leader Hipolito Mora admitted to Farias' long-term involvement with the Autodefensas.

Spanish:

http://aristeguinoticias.com/1002/mexico/el-abuelo-es-persona-seria-se-unio-a-las-autodefensas-hace-tiempo-hipolito-mora/

Google translation:

http://translate.google.com.mx/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=es-419&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Faristeguinoticias.com%2F1002%2Fmexico%2Fel-abuelo-es-persona-seria-se-unio-a-las-autodefensas-hace-tiempo-hipolito-mora%2F

You're going to need a cast of characters. I lifted some bios from Redgrillo.com. Any complaints about the accuracy of this material should be addressed directly to noted journalist and authority Ioan Grillo.

JUAN JOSE FARIAS ALVAREZ alias "Grandpa" (TEPALCATEPEC) Along with his brother Uriel, organized the coup against the PRI municipal government to take control of the Municipality of Tepalcatepec. This guy's been a drug dealer his entire life, has been arrested and even was imprisoned several years, is lieutenant to Mencho, New Generation Jalisco Cartel leader. This consummate offender is responsible for the production of drugs and also to lead a group of assassins of Jalisco New Generation cartel in the region of Tepalcatepec. He moves through the city with the protection of the people, business and federal police and the Mexican army.

URIEL ALVAREZ FARIAS (TEPALCATEPEC) Brother of "Grandpa" and former PRD mayor. This politician has always been linked to organized crime and, along his brother, orchestrated the movement to seize the town of Tepalcatepec, He is the political representative of Jalisco New Generation and, with Dr. Jose Manuel Mireles, he intends to participate again as a candidate in the next election as mayoral candidate or the local council for the town of Tepalcatepec, sharing nominations with Dr. Mireles.

HIPOLITO MORA ( RUANA ) Compadre of Chango Mendez, drug dealer for 25 years, originally was part of Family Michoacana, but betrays them and joins Knights Templar. then he joined Jalisco New Generation, precisely because of his debts to members of the Knights Templar, and the way he found to not pay his debts was betraying them and switch sides, now wants to be seen as a hero fighting for social causes, when in fact his only intention is personal gain

DR . JOSE MANUEL MIRELES VALVERDE ( TEPALCATEPEC ) PRD leader who has a criminal record as a narcotics trafficker, Mireles was arrested on November 10, 1988 in the community of Agua Nueva, municipality Tepalcatepec , He was convicted of drug crimes and transferred to the prison of Uruapan. The Federal Judicial Police ( PJF ) also found a radio communication network through which he alerted growers of marijuana, which was operated by Dr. Jose Manuel Mireles Valverde, in whose office was found "radio equipment and ten sacks of marijuana," The police report says that Dr. Jose Manuel Mireles Valverde "engaged to provide technical advice, to provide pumping equipment and supply fertilizer to growers of the region, who repaid his services with a portion of the drug they produced." On leaving prison in 1992, Mireles left the country. In 2006 he appeared as candidate for Senate, occupying 25th place on the national list submitted by the Coalition for the Good of All. This character is the spokesman for the Community Police in the town of Tepalcatepec and is a political criminal who uses the population for his own personal benefits.

[alex45920]

Thought I'd update this thread. A lot has been going down in Michoacan. Here's a very well written analysis on the forces at play. It's definitely a must read for anyone following this story.

'El Chayo' Dead but Knights Templar War with Vigilantes Rages On

http://www.insightcrime.org/news-analysis/el-chayo-dead-but-knights-templars-war-with-vigilante-militias-rages-on

[alex45920]

Here are some more updates:

Reeling Knights Templar Hit by Death of Second-in-Command

http://www.insightcrime.org/news-briefs/reeling-knights-templar-hit-by-death-of-second-in-command

Mexico Vigilante Hit on Mayor a Challenge to State Authority

http://www.insightcrime.org/news-briefs/mexico-vigilante-hit-on-mayor-a-challenge-to-state-authority

Vigilantes 'No Longer Needed,' but Can Mexico Govt Stop Them?

http://www.insightcrime.org/news-briefs/vigilantes-no-longer-needed-but-can-mexico-govt-stop-them

[valbogyo]

Alex, you continue to make this discussion political by choosing to post links to articles that support your opinion of what is happening. Not that it matters a lot here. This is a forum for people who live or what to live in the Lake Chapala area. Influencing opinion of this group of expats is really not very important.

I think most of the people here, who are really interested are smart enough to do their own research and read articles and editorials that present different views and opinions of what is happening. It is very complicated, there are powerful people who have the ability to influence the press, involved. There are billions of dollars at stake and the truth is really hard to find when so many people are invested in holding onto their piece of the pie.

[Jim Bowie]

Alex, ValGal and "the cowboy" look at all sides and the whole picture. As for you, you pick a side and find support for it. Why not tell the "whole" story and not pick a side. I think that is called something like "unbiased" reporting. And ValGal is absolutely correct, the people here who have a sincere interest look at the whole picture and have the intelligence to make their own decisions. You won't sway them in any direction. The others, just passing fancy.