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Rony

Michoacan for dummies .... and I am one of them

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What is really up with Michoacan today ??

.- Today the autodefensas took the house of one of the leaders of los templarios ( http://www.informador.com.mx/mexico/2014/508209/6/autodefensas-toman-casa-de-lider-templario.htm )

and the government, nor the army knew where he lived ??

Nobody bothered sending his address to the presidente ??

- I thought that, the last days, the army moved inthere to disarm the autodefensas (instead of focussing on disarming the templarios..... what is up with all that) ??

On top of that, this morning I heard that 140 000 autodefensas are ready to fight the army (so using what, throwing avocados ?? ) ??

- One of the leaders of the autodefensas gets a free ride to the hospital (after his plane happened to crash.... so much drama), using a federal police helicopter,.... belonging to the same govenment that wants to disarm his group ?? Wasn't Laura Bozzo using these helicopters for one of her fabulous shows ?

- On Radio Imagen this week : the templarios are exporting steel from Lazaro Cardenas to China ??? No further comment on that one.... pure self preservation on my part and don't want my doggie to become an orphan. Fortunately, nobody can see my picture in this thread.

- I thought that the templarios believed that the autodefensas were on the army's side.

. Do they (army, government, autodefensas, ordinary people fighting the autodefensas, the templarios) themselves still know who they are really fighting against ? Me sure doesn't.

And....who came up with that name "templarios" anyway.... they are not exactly the Morelias boys quire, are they ?

Maybe time for the senior gringo autodefensa movement to go and check it out.

What a mess ...

I think that I am going to start drinking.

Rony

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Borderlandbeat has provided links to articles, and videos...with translation. They also have provided links to cnn reports and other reports by international media. Make sure you check out the forum section, where there are great articles and opinions. You can learn a lot and begin to understand the complexity of the situation. What is significant is that, now, foreign journalists are reporting. Because of that...... the world is opening their eyes to what is happening.

Glad this topic is being raised again. What is interesting to me, is now my Mexican friends are talking about this...where last month, they avoided the topic.

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Borderlandbeat has provided links to articles, and videos...with translation. They also have provided links to cnn reports and other reports by international media. Make sure you check out the forum section, where there are great articles and opinions. You can learn a lot and begin to understand the complexity of the situation. What is significant is that, now, foreign journalists are reporting. Because of that...... the world is opening their eyes to what is happening.

Glad this topic is being raised again. What is interesting to me, is now my Mexican friends are talking about this...where last month, they avoided the topic.

The Michoacan situation can have great consequences on the rest of the country.

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The Michoacan situation can have great consequences on the rest of the country.

Absolutely. We may be living next door to where a movement could be noteworthy in the context of Mexican history. Imagine the murals.

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Ioan Grille just published an article, Jan 14th, on time.com. Go to the WORLD tab, and you will find it. I can't paste the url from this tablet. www.time.com, world section. Title is about kidnappings etc...

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Borderland Beat seems to have a good handle on it. Interesting triva like the leader of the autodefensas couldn't be discharged from the hospital when he was ready - he had to find money to pay the hospital bill first - and televisa has been accused of editing his speech which said they would lay down arms if - they took out the if part - 6 seconds - and apparently have the proof.

Who knows where the truth is - but reading what the governor says makes me think that he is very well paid and doesn't want to rock the boat - and everything seems to indicate the narcos are in charge - and that seems to be fine with the government.

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Ioan Grille just published an article, Jan 14th, on time.com. Go to the WORLD tab, and you will find it. I can't paste the url from this tablet. www.time.com, world section. Title is about kidnappings etc...

Ioan Grille quotes a security expert ,(Security analyst Alejandro Hope of the Mexican Competitiveness Institute) claiming the solution lies in bolstering anti-kidnapping units at a state level. Kidnappers should be relatively easy to catch as they have to expose themselves to collect money from the victims.

What a great thinker he is but....one small detail .... the vast majority of kidnappings are not reported to the police (or it IS the police doing the kidnapping, dear Alejandro), so does he believe that Hombre Araña Peña Nieto is going to descent from los Pinos and catch them himself ??

Time for Alejandro to go and look for another job and come back from Lalaland..... I think. Sorry, Alejandro. You have been watching too many movies. You are fired.

This morning I heard an American consulate representative (in the usual predictable voicemail tone) saying that with 20 million Americans visiting Mexico each year, she was not overworried about the 80 murders on American citizens last year, BUT she was far more concerned about the 90 (reported !) kidnappings (of Americans).

Bless her heart.

Again... time for a drink ( a Belgian chocolate milkshake with lots of ice).

Where were we ?

Rony

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Borderland Beat seems to have a good handle on it. Interesting triva like the leader of the autodefensas couldn't be discharged from the hospital when he was ready - he had to find money to pay the hospital bill first - and televisa has been accused of editing his speech which said they would lay down arms if - they took out the if part - 6 seconds - and apparently have the proof.

Who knows where the truth is - but reading what the governor says makes me think that he is very well paid and doesn't want to rock the boat - and everything seems to indicate the narcos are in charge - and that seems to be fine with the government.

On BB forum today, the mention that a reporter, on a night time Televise show, admitted the interview with Dr. Morales had been manipulated. The poster suggested the reporter would soon be looking for another job.

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Ioan Grille quotes a security expert ,(Security analyst Alejandro Hope of the Mexican Competitiveness Institute) claiming the solution lies in bolstering anti-kidnapping units at a state level. Kidnappers should be relatively easy to catch as they have to expose themselves to collect money from the victims.

What a great thinker he is but....one small detail .... the vast majority of kidnappings are not reported to the police (or it IS the police doing the kidnapping, dear Alejandro), so does he believe that Hombre Araña Peña Nieto is going to descent from los Pinos and catch them himself ??

Time for Alejandro to go and look for another job and come back from Lalaland..... I think. Sorry, Alejandro. You have been watching too many movies. You are fired.

This morning I heard an American consulate representative (in the usual predictable voicemail tone) saying that with 20 million Americans visiting Mexico each year, she was not overworried about the 80 murders on American citizens last year, BUT she was far more concerned about the 90 (reported !) kidnappings (of Americans).

Bless her heart.

Again... time for a drink ( a Belgian chocolate milkshake with lots of ice).

Where were we ?

Rony

Rony, don't over do those shakes. Its going to get worse before it gets better. If this could be the catalyst for major change, it could race through the country like wild fire.......or there could be a lot of pain associated with the effort to extinguish the passion behind the AD. If this is settled peacefully....... well, miracles happen. All we can do is hope and pray, if so inclined.

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Here's a statement from the Autodefensas. With more than a bit of bluff and bluster, they claim to currently have 50,000 armed men...and the ability to raise an army of 140,000 in order to fight a revolution. Meanwhile, the Templares claim that the Autodefensas are aligned with their New Generation cartel rivals. It kinda reminds me of trying to pick sides in Syria.

http://www.fafhoonoticias.org/2014/01/comunicado-140-mil-autodefensas-en.html

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Here's a statement from the Autodefensas. With more than a bit of bluff and bluster, they claim to currently have 50,000 armed men...and the ability to raise an army of 140,000 in order to fight a revolution. Meanwhile, the Templares claim that the Autodefensas are aligned with their New Generation cartel rivals. It kinda reminds me of trying to pick sides in Syria.

http://www.fafhoonoticias.org/2014/01/comunicado-140-mil-autodefensas-en.html

More complicated even..... How could I have forgotten La Nueva Generacion de Jalisco.

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Here's a statement from the Autodefensas. With more than a bit of bluff and bluster, they claim to currently have 50,000 armed men...and the ability to raise an army of 140,000 in order to fight a revolution. Meanwhile, the Templares claim that the Autodefensas are aligned with their New Generation cartel rivals. It kinda reminds me of trying to pick sides in Syria.

http://www.fafhoonoticias.org/2014/01/comunicado-140-mil-autodefensas-en.html

Gee - so something is printed and it becomes truth? Like if it is on Televisa, it has got to be truth?

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Gee - so something is printed and it becomes truth? Like if it is on Televisa, it has got to be truth?

The only truth here is that it is their statement. Absolutely everything else is open to dispute and speculation. Do I believe the Autodefensas can raise a 140,000-man army? Of course not. Do I believe they are aligned with the New Generation? Well...let me think about that.

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The only truth here is that it is their statement.

Just like Dr. Mireles' statement was the truth (before it was altered by a reporter on Televisa)?

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Just like Dr. Mireles' statement was the truth (before it was altered by a reporter on Televisa)?

Did you follow the link and actually read the statement by the Autodefensas? Doesn't sound like they're preparing to disarm.

Here's a little more info on the Televisa issue:

http://aristeguinoticias.com/1401/mexico/2-videos-de-mireles-dividen-a-autodefensas-en-michoacan/

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The only truth here is that it is their statement. Absolutely everything else is open to dispute and speculation. Do I believe the Autodefensas can raise a 140,000-man army? Of course not. Do I believe they are aligned with the New Generation? Well...let me think about that.

ummm.... how do you know it is their statement? Because it is printed it becomes truth? here is another recent quote - "We have 25,000 armed men, but in an emergency we can bring together 140 thousand and go to war if necessary."

So one report says he says 25,000 and another says 50.000.

Is one or both their statements- actually I don't think it is very important - but what is that narcos have pretty much taken over Michoacan with very little government interference - the government needs to go after the cartels - which they have not done in the past.

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Google or go to You Tube and search for sacerdote Gregorio lopez. This priest from Apatzingan is not afraid to talk and is ready to fight the army and the templarios, even with stones and sticks if they have to.....

He also claims that a lot of money (to provide equipment for the autodefensas) comes from business people, who have been driven away from their properties (by the templarios).

Then, the key question needs to be asked if these business people themselves raised their money honestly or were they linked to another criminal organization (such as La Nueva Generacion ?? ).

It seems to me that the turning point between kind of accepting the disarming (by the autodefensas) and the refusal came when the army killed 4 or 5 civilians (one 11 year old), a couple of days ago. Only future will tell how big a mistake this was and what the consequences will be.

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ummm.... how do you know it is their statement? Because it is printed it becomes truth? here is another recent quote - "We have 25,000 armed men, but in an emergency we can bring together 140 thousand and go to war if necessary."

So one report says he says 25,000 and another says 50.000.

Is one or both their statements- actually I don't think it is very important - but what is that narcos have pretty much taken over Michoacan with very little government interference - the government needs to go after the cartels - which they have not done in the past.

Okay, you win. I agree...there are no truths.

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Okay, you win. I agree...there are no truths.

Unfortunately, Alex, you are probably correct, when it refers to Mexico. Everything is a "smoke screen" and seldom do people learn the real truth. I see a positive to the autodefensa in the short run, they are cleaning the State of Templarios, which the State and Federal authorities are not willing to do( wonder why ?). That can (hopefully) make Michoacan a better and safer place to live.

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Here is an article on CNN today - and from my perspective, a wonderful example of terrible journalism....

(CNNMéxico) - The Federal Police and the Army completed the task of "taking police accountability in all municipalities in Michoacán" (27) which is oriented "operational activity" undertaken by the government since last week according to a statement from the Ministry of the Interior (Interior Ministry).

This Saturday Huetamo 393 municipal police, Miigica, Aquila, Gabriel Zamora, Parácuaro, Ario de Rosales, Coahuayana, New Urecho and Villa Victoria were taken to Regional Training Center in Tlaxcala to perform tests of confidence.

Tierra Caliente region, south of the state, registered violence in recent months because of clashes between drug gangs and paramilitaries.

************ so when you read this,the conclusion is, the drug gangs and the paramilitaries are the bad guys. No where does it mention that the paramilitaries are trying to protect lives and businesses - what about the narco takeover of the avocado industry...

Warped journalism - sounds like they are out to stop the paramilitaries - and don't care about protecting the people... I hope the federales do better than this article implies

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Could you please post the link to the original article, Mad_Max? Surely it was written in Spanish and then run through some translation service--it makes no sense whatsoever.

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What is really stupid is worrying what the auto-defense groups might become if they are allowed to continue. The government has done next to nothing except occupy Lazaro Cardenas

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What is really stupid is worrying what the auto-defense groups might become if they are allowed to continue. The government has done next to nothing except occupy Lazaro Cardenas

Not worried at all.... quite the opposite.

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