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November 2013 immigration changes


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"In countries where the populace doesn't complain, the government does not run as well and certainly businesses are not competitive.

Complaining is healthy and productive. Accepting a fate one does not like is not healthy. Going along to get along is stupid." (Joco.)

Let's change the word "populace" to "citizens" and consider the fact that the complainers on this thread aren't; and therefore, aren't in a legal position to complain about the way Mexico is running the show. Your statement only makes sense back in the states, or wherever you were in fact, a citizen.

"Stupid" would be a non-citizen Mexican alien raising a ruckus in the United States about the way they run the government.

Some of my fellow expats seem to have forgotten where they stand in the big picture, which is the country to which they CHOSE to emigrate, si? I don't think any of us were brought here by force.

So yes, if we want to get along here, we also need to "go along"..........or go "home", wherever that may have been....and where you can protest the way the government is running things to your hearts' content.

Regarding the "car issue": Many of us got a free ride on Mexican roads for years without buying licenses. There is always a point at which the party is over and the host stops serving free drinks to the guests. Complain about that???

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"In countries where the populace doesn't complain, the government does not run as well and certainly businesses are not competitive.

Complaining is healthy and productive. Accepting a fate one does not like is not healthy. Going along to get along is stupid." (Joco.)

Let's change the word "populace" to "citizens" and consider the fact that the complainers on this thread aren't; and therefore, aren't in a legal position to complain about the way Mexico is running the show. Your statement only makes sense back in the states, or wherever you were in fact, a citizen.

"Stupid" would be an illegal Mexican alien raising a ruckus in the United States about the way they run the government.

Anyone in the U.S. can protest, petition the government and criticize the government. They do not need to be citizens or even legal.

I know several people who moved back because Mexico does not allow non-citizens to protest. They said Mexico is not their country.

I didn't say anything about vehicles. I wrote about the absence of new people moving here hurting the real estate market and subsequently the economy in the long run.

Yes, RV we are a small pocket of foreigners compared to the whole tourist industry but the amount of money foreign residents spend in Mexico is in the billions of dollars every year and nothing to sneeze at. If Mexico thinks billions of dollars is unimportant well that explains a lot. Not very good managers.

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Wars are started when people are not angry. Hitler wasn't angry when he invaded his first country. I don't know why it is assumed that people are angry if they discuss an issue.

In the U.S. we complain when we think something isn't fair. That has created a country that in most cases works to correct unfairnesses and has made the U.S. superior to Mexico in business and government.

In countries where the populace doesn't complain, the government does not run as well and certainly businesses are not competitive.

Complaining is healthy and productive. Accepting a fate one does not like is not healthy. Going along to get along is stupid.

"Complaining is healthy and productive.

Accepting a fate one does not like is not healthy. Going along to get along is stupid."

This is a most curious way to choose to live.

Many people see cooperation, hard work, dedication and persistence in doing good work to accomplish common goals as an admired and productive way to live.

When did complaining become productive ?

People who have worked together to build a business, to win wars over Hitler et al, to succeed in life generally do not praise the virtues of complaining and whining about their fates. We work to change things, to build things....

Complaining about what annoys us is very different from observing what is actually happening. Complainers are very different from those who present solutions and options. Complainers are not people who seek and recognize opportunities. Complainers rarely work to make things better.

===================================

"Complaining is healthy and productive.

Accepting a fate one does not like is not healthy. Going along to get along is stupid."

Saying we must either complain or go-along-to-get-along is marvelously simplistic.

Fortunately, there are many other productive ways we go through life - other than just accepting one's fate or complaining and blaming others.

Fortunately, many people see and create positive choices in their lives versus complaining or going-along with fate.

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The simple fact is that we are guests in this country we are free to leave whenever we wish. I am guessing that those that are doing the most complaining are living here because of the very low cost of living compared to other equally attractive locals. If I were a Mexican citizen I would hope and expect that my government would set income standards for those wishing to live here. I think that the requirements for becoming a permanent resident here, which I am, or even a citizen are for more lenient here than they would be anywhere else I would consider buying a home.

If you thinks are really screwed up here maybe you should go back to the States without insurance and trying signing up for insurance under the ACA. Governments are rarely either logical or efficient so I don't know why one would expect the Mexican government to both operate efficiently and subscribe some expats self serving logic.

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Where did you get the idea that the spouse of a Residente Permanente automatically qualifies for same? Sorry, not correct.

It's not an idea, it has been the law for over a year.

If the goal is to help people, then actual answers and factual replies come from reading the laws and learning the rules, rather than continuing to make up things that do not exist in the law nor in reality.

A simple google search of the term I posted repeatedly above Vinculo Familiar and INM gives:

"Secretaría de Gobernación ~ Instituto Nacional de Migración ~

Visa de residencia temporal o permanente solicitada al Instituto por unidad familiar

...

Los tipos de visa que se expiden por unidad familiar son los siguientes:

a) Visa de residente permanente para el caso de hijos menores de edad, padres, o hermanos de mexicanos y extranjeros titulares de la condición de estancia de residente

permanente.

B) Visa de residente temporal o de residente temporal estudiante, para el caso de hijos menores de edad, padres, cónyuge, concubina o concubinario de personas extranjeras

titulares de la condición de estancia de residente temporal o residente temporal estudiante.

c) Esta visa también corresponde al cónyuge, concubina o concubinario de mexicano o de extranjero titular de residencia permanente ."

Item c loosely translates:

"The types of visas that are issued per household are:

...

c ) This visa also corresponds to the spouse or concubine of Mexican or foreigner with Residente Permanente status."

Here is the weblink of official information on this for anyone who wants to apply: http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/Tramites_LM/Autorizacion_Visas_LM/Visa_unidad_familiar.pdf

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So much anger and so many mis-perceptions. Anyway, it is all coming from a very tiny, inconsequential place, in the whole scheme of things. I am sure that the government did not focus on Ajijc when it considered the options in writing the new law and rules.

Forgive me RV, but I was the one who sent you a PM offering to move anything you wanted to move to TX a few months ago when you were so angry - so, again, with due respect, you were in the same mess that many are and were.

Mexico isn't trying to "eliminate chocolates" - they're only greasing the wheels of mordida. If that were the case, they could do a country wide sweep and simply impound and crush all found - haven't seen that happening have you?

And "Anyway, it is all coming from a very tiny, inconsequential place" - wow, you assume every other Expat in MX is loving this? - and have you any idea how much "LEGAL" revenue we pump into Mexico? - I can tell you that my workers are concerned, and have been for some time, jobs are hard to get and they don't see it getting better.

Ok, now, this is the one I've been waiting for and expecting, the creme de la creme:

Let's change the word "populace" to "citizens" and consider the fact that the complainers on this thread aren't; and therefore, aren't in a legal position to complain about the way Mexico is running the show. Your statement only makes sense back in the states, or wherever you were in fact, a citizen.

"Stupid" would be an illegal Mexican alien raising a ruckus in the United States about the way they run the government.

ARE YOU DEAD SERIOUS? Have you no idea what is going on NOB? - wow. I won't even get into that, but if you believ ----------------- sorry, that's off down the wrong road and not a subject for this discussion.

HOWEVER: Regarding the "car issue": Many of us got a free ride on Mexican roads for years without buying licenses. There is always a point at which the party is over and the host stops serving free drinks to the guests. Complain about that???

I'll take that as an admission that you have not complied with laws, either here or NOB - am I correct? Well, let me tell you something, I have always been legal on both sides of the border at any moment in the 6 years I've been here. I keep my NOB plates, inspection and drivers license up to date. In fact, my old DL was expiring next year before I'll be back and so in Sept I renewed early just to make sure I remain legal. Now, if you and others are "cheating" the system on either side of the border, then YOU ARE THE ONES "up for grabs", don't lay this on me and others, I have zero sympathy. The car fiasco has been, and is still, a mess, only exceeded by healthcare NOB, it threw honest quiet people into the arms of bandidos of all stripes, so don't try to sugar coat it.

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HOWEVER: Regarding the "car issue": Many of us got a free ride on Mexican roads for years without buying licenses. There is always a point at which the party is over and the host stops serving free drinks to the guests. Complain about that???

I'll take that as an admission that you have not complied with laws, either here or NOB - am I correct? Well, let me tell you something, I have always been legal on both sides of the border at any moment in the 6 years I've been here. I keep my NOB plates, inspection and drivers license up to date. In fact, my old DL was expiring next year before I'll be back and so in Sept I renewed early just to make sure I remain legal. Now, if you and others are "cheating" the system on either side of the border, then YOU ARE THE ONES "up for grabs", don't lay this on me and others, I have zero sympathy. The car fiasco has been, and is still, a mess, only exceeded by healthcare NOB, it threw honest quiet people into the arms of bandidos of all stripes, so don't try to sugar coat it.

Gringal is not saying she broke the law. She followed Mexican laws and paid nothing to the Mexican Govt for years of happy legal motoring. Gringal is referring to the 1,000's of expat foreigners here who have had their foreign plated cars here in Mexico on Temporary Permits, driving the Mexican roadways for 10 years or more, legally, without paying road fees/taxes, ownership taxes (tenencias), registration fees, or licensing fees. We have one friend who legally drove his 1988 Toyota Landcruiser here and across Mexico from 1990-2012 on the same old 1990 Texas tags and old but legal Temporary Import Permit - without ever contributing a sou to pay for the services/roadways he used.

Temporary import permits are just that, temporary. Should people with temporary permits expect to have permanent unlimited free renewals? We chose to bring vehicles that could be permanently imported, and we got permanent imports to avoid the hassles of temporary permits.

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Just to clarify matters: We brought a Toyota pickup filled with necessities to Mexico in 2004, plated with CA plates. At that time, no fees were requested for bringing in the car. We had been granted FM3 status before leaving the States. We notified the CA Dept. of Motor Vehicles that we were no longer going to be driving the car anywhere in the U.S., put it on official "non-op" status and we did it before our plates had expired. We never did return to the U.S. by car. We were not either able or required to be licensed in Mexico with that car and it was not one which could be nationalized. Thus, the "free ride". Anticipating going to FM2 status (at which time we would have had to "buy Mexican", we arranged to sell the car to a daughter who needed a pickup anyway. She flew down, drove it to the border as a legal family member, and she registered it as soon as she crossed the border into AZ. We sold it for a discounted price, since it was family. We bought a new Mexican car . End of story. Everything was legal, all the way.

It is always a bad idea to make assumptions when you don't know the facts.

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The simple fact is that we are guests in this country we are free to leave whenever we wish. I am guessing that those that are doing the most complaining are living here because of the very low cost of living compared to other equally attractive locals. If I were a Mexican citizen I would hope and expect that my government would set income standards for those wishing to live here. I think that the requirements for becoming a permanent resident here, which I am, or even a citizen are for more lenient here than they would be anywhere else I would consider buying a home.

If you thinks are really screwed up here maybe you should go back to the States without insurance and trying signing up for insurance under the ACA. Governments are rarely either logical or efficient so I don't know why one would expect the Mexican government to both operate efficiently and subscribe some expats self serving logic.

Like the majority of people here I have Medicare. I don't need ACA although you seem to think it is not an alternative. Over 700,000 have signed up so far when the state sites are included.

The income amount before the new rules for an FM3 was about $1200 USD a month. That is twice what a Mexican school teacher or police officer earns. If we proved twice the income of middle class workers we proved plenty of income. Proving almost double that now is ridiculous.

Most foreigners who become seriously ill will return home. We are not a burden on Mexico. I know several who are in nursing or assisted living homes here. They can afford it without $2000 US a month income or $125,000 in the bank.

Whether they admit it or not everybody came to live in Mexico because it was cheaper. Why would anyone want to live in a Third World country that has a serious crime problem if they could afford to live as well in the U.S.? They can live better in California or Hawaii.

If someone is receiving less than $1000 a month in SS he is better off in the U.S. where he can get Medicaid, Food Stamps, Section 8 Housing and other income benefits. He will gain several hundred dollars a month living in the U.S.

None of us have been a financial burden on Mexico and all of us contribute to the economy. Even those who didn't buy license tags paid gasoline taxes that paid for roads. We are a plus not a negative for Mexico.

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The notion that everyone came here because it is cheaper is ludicrous.

There are places in the U.S. that are cheaper, along with having those Medicare benefits and the other goodies mentioned which we expats can't use in Mexico. If illness struck, I certainly wouldn't head for the U.S. A. Highest cost of medical care on the globe and some of the lowest quality. Check it out on the web if you doubt that.

Many moved here for things like (1) a great climate and (2) are sick to death of the culture of consumption which rules in the States and possibly (3) the obsession with youth. Once you're retirement age, you're non-existent for all practical purposes NOB.

Here, you at least have lots of company.

Then there's the adventure factor of moving out of your old environment, and a few other things more important that the local U.S.shopping experience.

Maybe we need a survey of people who were doing okay financially before moving, and moved anyway. Possibly a thread on the reasons. Many people will, of course, lie. :unsure:

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"Whether they admit it or not everybody came to live in Mexico because it was cheaper. Why would anyone want to live in a Third World country that has a serious crime problem if they could afford to live as well in the U.S.? They can live better in California or Hawaii"

I just do not think you know very many people in the higher income brackets here. Many can afford to live in California, Hawaii or anywhere in the world. There are a lot of people here who will never, ever spend all of their money and who save part of their income every month. I mean, there are a lot of people who own multiple homes in several countries and who travel a good part of the year.

I think that, definitely, these people are not stewing about the changes. For people who have to count their pennies, it is a lot more difficult to deal with.

Just thinking about the original topic........ It just not that big of a deal. Same ol line ups and inconvenience as many other places in the world. Those with money (or good friends) can pay someone to make it easier.

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The notion that everyone came here because it is cheaper is ludicrous.

There are places in the U.S. that are cheaper, along with having those Medicare benefits and the other goodies mentioned which we expats can't use in Mexico. If illness struck, I certainly wouldn't head for the U.S. A. Highest cost of medical care on the globe and some of the lowest quality. Check it out on the web if you doubt that.

Many moved here for things like (1) a great climate and (2) are sick to death of the culture of consumption which rules in the States and possibly (3) the obsession with youth. Once you're retirement age, you're non-existent for all practical purposes NOB.

Here, you at least have lots of company.

Then there's the adventure factor of moving out of your old environment, and a few other things more important that the local U.S.shopping experience.

Maybe we need a survey of people who were doing okay financially before moving, and moved anyway. Possibly a thread on the reasons. Many people will, of course, lie.

:unsure:

If you are referring to my post I did not suggest that most people are here for the lower cost of living and agree that the overwhelming majority are here for the reasons you have given. I do however believe that those doing the most complaining are those who came here for that reason. Then again if you factor in that some people just look for thing to complain about, I could be wrong.

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IMHO, those complaining the loudest are those who felt "entitled" to things the way they were when they moved here. Entitlements are things you've paid for such as Social Security. It turns out that foreigners were not "entitled" to have temporarily imported car forever.

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Joco made the statement about everyone coming because it was cheaper. JRP JR didn't say that.

I agree with the statement that some people just look for something to complain about, but I question whether those doing the most complaining are the ones who would suffer most, economically, from the new regulations.

And then, there's the ones with a bad case of "car love". IMO, if it isn't a Ferrari or one of its brothers, a car is just a car. Yeah, some are more fun and convey the illusion of higher social status, but no big deal, is it, really?

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