CostCo Toilet Paper

[valbogyo]

My apologies, I don't mean to be insulting at all. What I voiced about the differences in cultures is true, but some folks don't seem to be able to understand. Too many people have come here who expect everything to be just like home, and frankly, to me, that's ruining the whole ambience of this nifty lakeside area. Too many boards, too many meetings, too many petitions. Too many complaints.

To me, there are two kinds of arrivees: those that can accept the way life is and figure out ways to deal with it, and those that can't/won't. I recall just a few years ago, a number of retired couples who's home values were either destroyed or rendered unbearable by the hurricanes in Florida, up and left there and came here. Some could not deal with the water situation; some could not deal with the way workers work; some could not/would not speak the language and expected English in all their dealings. After two or three years, a whole bunch of them left and actually went back to Florida.

Got it. I have to say that I have only once, in five years, encountered an overflowing waste basket in a restaurant. For the most part, I find that public restrooms are cleaner here than many places in the world I have been. That is why I really appreciate paying my 3 pesos when I need to use one of these facilities. For me, I just want to encourage people not to contribute to the land fill problem if they can. Try the petal test on your home (Use conservatively and only when necessary , Allow some time for it to dissolve.) Or, consider using the orange bags if you can. When I volunteered to build houses and schools on the Northern Baja, we also built out- houses. Until we did that, I had not even thought about how the people living in cardboard and plastic hovels did not have a place to go. Watching the kids at the dump was also heart breaking. So, I will get off my "soap box" now!

[More Liana]

ValGal, you know I love you dearly, but you are making some big assumptions.

• The first one is that there is 'the lack of motivation to change'. If you have done a thing one way for your entire life and have no idea that it is done another way somewhere else, you have no concept of a need to change. If you are from a tiny pueblo and have thrown your used paper into the hole in your outhouse from the time you were toilet trained until you moved in a desperate search for work to any city--and are faced for the first time with a flush toilet and a wastebasket next to it for the first--and you're told to throw your paper into the waste basket--that's probably a big change for one lifetime.
• The second is that the current problem with cholera is related to the normal disposal of human waste. The current problem with cholera is related to the flooding caused by hurricanes Ingrid and Manuel, in Guerrero and other states. The town of Tixtla, Guerrero, is still under several feet of water, 40+ days post-hurricane.
• The third is that the people who work either on the garbage trucks or in the dump understand the significance of the orange bags. To give you some insight into this last one, when 'orange bags' were originally mentioned in this thread *I* had no idea what that meant. Still don't, if the truth be known. If *I* don't know--and I am a well-educated, well-informed, much-interested person--then how can we possibly think that the guy on the garbage truck, or the guy in the dump, will have the slightest idea what an orange bag signifies?

Mexico, all protests to the contrary, is still very much a third-world country. Many Mexicans can't read. Many have no basic services in their homes: no electricity, no running water, etc. This is true in the Lake Chapala area as well as in the countryside.

IMHO, the people who need to change are the foreigners who expect Mexico to somehow 'come up' to their standards. Mexico will, as ComputerGuy says, change over the long haul--or in the case of where to put used toilet paper, maybe not. There are more pressing changes necessary; we've been throwing our toilet paper in the waste basket for a long, long time and guess what? We're still here.

Edit to add: Cross-post with ComputerGuy and ValGal. I was writing this post as they were posting their posts. No need to further inflame the conversation.

[lobita]

I can certainly understand ValGal's point about the health risks; when I asked our neighbors about recycling, we were told that in Ajijic the garbage workers sort through and separate the trash by hand. The best thing I can think of to do under the circumstances is to pre-separate recyclables diligently, and not to put human (or animal) waste in bags with any other kind of trash. Also using translucent bags (as opposed to opaque) for the bathroom waste may help, as the type of contents could be seen without needing to open the bag.

It is a bit tricky at first to break oneself of the habit to drop tissue into the toilet, but my only real issue with the situation is that my dog occasionally finds the bathroom wastebaskets a little too interesting. I'm looking for some nice woven baskets with lids, but so far no dice.

[cbviajero]

It is a bit tricky at first to break oneself of the habit to drop tissue into the toilet, but my only real issue with the situation is that my dog occasionally finds the bathroom wastebaskets a little too interesting.

Guacala.

[lobita]

Guacala.

... and here i was, trying to be all delicate in my phrasing!

[El Saltos]

I can certainly understand ValGal's point about the health risks; when I asked our neighbors about recycling, we were told that in Ajijic the garbage workers sort through and separate the trash by hand. The best thing I can think of to do under the circumstances is to pre-separate recyclables diligently, and not to put human (or animal) waste in bags with any other kind of trash. Also using translucent bags (as opposed to opaque) for the bathroom waste may help, as the type of contents could be seen without needing to open the bag.

It is a bit tricky at first to break oneself of the habit to drop tissue into the toilet, but my only real issue with the situation is that my dog occasionally finds the bathroom wastebaskets a little too interesting. I'm looking for some nice woven baskets with lids, but so far no dice.

Put your trash out on the designated days and the guys don't have to sort it; Organic on Mon, Wed, & Fri, Recycle on Tue & Thu, and Sanitario on Sat.

[lobita]

Put your trash out on the designated days and the guys don't have to sort it; Organic on Mon, Wed, & Fri, Recycle on Tue & Wed, and Sanitario on Sat.

Ho, what? I have questions, but rather than take this topic down that rabbit trail I'm going to spin off a new thread.

[nana]

My apologies, I don't mean to be insulting at all. What I voiced about the differences in cultures is true, but some folks don't seem to be able to understand. Too many people have come here who expect everything to be just like home, and frankly, to me, that's ruining the whole ambience of this nifty lakeside area. Too many boards, too many meetings, too many petitions. Too many complaints.

To me, there are two kinds of arrivees: those that can accept the way life is and figure out ways to deal with it, and those that can't/won't. I recall just a few years ago, a number of retired couples who's home values were either destroyed or rendered unbearable by the hurricanes in Florida, up and left there and came here. Some could not deal with the water situation; some could not deal with the way workers work; some could not/would not speak the language and expected English in all their dealings. After two or three years, a whole bunch of them left and actually went back to Florida.

Some folks do understand but they still complain because they see that certain things could easily be improved: bit by bit, with as little as emptying baskets in bathrooms of public places. Why is it not being done?

You have answered that, More Liana, and Lobita also has said that it is difficult to change and break habits.Therefore, there is nothing wrong with complaining to improve things. If the patrons don't see it or don't think it is important, and if nobody complains, it stays. I have many Mexican friends and they agree with me 100%. They are also bothered by this, but they have been docile and submissive all their life. They complain just like I do to their close friends only. These are nice qualities but it does not move things ahead and sometimes a little push from foreigners helps.

I remember when Europeans came to Canada in the 50's, complaining about our bad food, our bad coffee, our bad wine and our different ways. Our reaction? Go back where you come from if you're not happy here. Natural reaction but bad answer. Those new-comers were right. They brought with them their knowledge and a multitude of good things. We improved with their influence, and now what do we have? A multicultural country, proud of who we are.

Computer Guy, you mention two kinds of arrivees. This is too simplistic. You seem to think that only arrivees are complaining. I live here for 13 years and never got used to certain things. The reason I'm here compensates for the negative. And I'm here to stay, hoping many things will continue to improve before I croak.

We can all do better than our grand-parents and parents did. It's called progress, which is not bad, and it's not a matter of changing the CULTURE. We sometimes mix habit and culture. Do we really know what culture is? They might have a lot in common but are not the same.

[ComputerGuy]

Trying to change things is one thing. Merely complaining is another. And long-term complaining about something that is an accepted way of life in your chosen new country is no different than short-term complaining, other than annoying to the people listening to it long-term.

This topic most definitely is a matter of culture. Culture is not how often you go to the ballet or hold a wine-glass by the stem.

Sure, there are all kinds of other types, but for our purposes--the purposes of this discussion--I think my description is apt.

[rufus]

Remember when you were a kid and your mother told you to be sure and do your business before you left the house?