Perfect illustration of how screwed up this INM thing is

[cbviajero]

deleted

[giltner68]

No no no, you don't get off that easy, "not the smartest in the room"? - I'd like to put that one to a test vote. I've often been the smartest in the room and more often thought I WAS the smartest in the room - but you know what? - I've been shocked twice this year to find I was not either?

But, I want you to seriously focus on this and consider it before you answer, OK? The very document you are waving around (like Chamberlain and Peace in our time) is/was created by the exact same government and administration that today says our "unemployment" dropped to 7.3% (with 90,473,000 not working?) - now, you take time think on it, breath deeply and then tell me you still have the confidence that your stats are rock solid.

If you still believe that, then the fun begins, we set up the "dual" with seconds to verify and quantify what the bet will entail and we go from there. Of course it should focus on what the INM has, or is, doing to our immigration picture (as began this thread) and what might change to improve it, what might happen if it stands etc. that's the real question. No one (gosh help us) imagines that droves of BBoomers are going to descend on us and screw up what we have here. But, the overall picture is the bet.

[gringal]

Correcting spelling isn't really my thing........but it's "duel", Tex, and this ain't the O.K. Corral, either.

Now, it's my understanding that two of the inflexible rules on this forum are

(1) things don't get to get personal, especially hostile/personal

and

(2) politics is not allowed, especially references to U.S. politics

Moderator? Moderator????

[giltner68]

Oops, sorry on the spelling but leave it alone, it's not personal, it's a chance to have a "community eventos" and share some common agreements and disagreements.

I mean really gringal, you've known me for 7 years and we used to (be allowed) to have some great fun and this on the edge of that. But it's not personal and no one is "called out" and it hopefully will end in a round of cervezas at a local establishment and some fun. The real mystery comes when you try to imagine "10" years? - wow, how do we deal with that, create a bank account and in 10 years it could be double or half? - and what about the mod? - do they put it in their will that the responsibility is passed on? - wow, this can be a lot of fun if we let it be.

[jkgourmet]

Just for kicks, I'm actually living up here, NOB, with all those baby boomers you guys are discussing. The ones that are getting ready to retire. I'm one of them. We seriously considered moving to Lakeside. As part of this decision, we spent a total of ten months down there during the summers in 2010 and 2011. We've had MANY discussions with MANY people in various areas of the US about moving to Mexico for retirement. (No, I cannot say we've had discussions with Canadians)

I'll tell you what I hear. Please note, I'm not agreeing or supporting their opinions. I'm just passing on the information that we hear directly from the horses mouth.

Most baby boomers have no interest in moving to Mexico. Whether or not they could financially qualify for a VISA has never even entered their mind. Neither has the issue of the legality/illegality their US plated car. Bluntly put: They consider Mexico to be a dangerous place to live. You have no idea how pervasive this opinion is. Those that still consider the idea tend to look at the oceanfront areas - we know people who have purchased condos in PV, Mazatlan and Cabo. Rosarito Beach is gaining popularity, probably aided by it's status as a Free Zone area. None of these folks intend to stay in these homes full time, so for them, the INM issues are non-issues.

One of the main reasons WE considered Mexico was because of the difficulty of obtaining health insurance here in the US for those under medicare age. I know that we met others who lived in Lakeside (or considered moving to Mexico) for EXACTLY that reason. Now, with Obamacare about to take affect, lots of people believe that Fairy Dust will cure our health care and insurance woes. This is temporary, IMO. I think many people will reconsider health care costs as a reason to leave the US when they find out what the premiums REALLY are gonna cost them under the so-called Affordable Health Care Act.

But getting around the widespread opinion that Mexico is dangerous is the REAL barrier to bringing Baby Boomers to Mexico to retire.

[gringal]

Oops, sorry on the spelling but leave it alone, it's not personal, it's a chance to have a "community eventos" and share some common agreements and disagreements.

I mean really gringal, you've known me for 7 years and we used to (be allowed) to have some great fun and this on the edge of that. But it's not personal and no one is "called out" and it hopefully will end in a round of cervezas at a local establishment and some fun. The real mystery comes when you try to imagine "10" years? - wow, how do we deal with that, create a bank account and in 10 years it could be double or half? - and what about the mod? - do they put it in their will that the responsibility is passed on? - wow, this can be a lot of fun if we let it be.

Giltner, what ten years are you talking about? I've lived in Mexico for ten years, since 2004. I don't know about yours, but my bank account is just about where it was back then, considering the non existent interest income we're getting.

This particular forum is moderated, and if you look at the top of this page, it says.........no getting personal. You want to have a no holds barred go around with somebody?..........you know which board allows that, and it isn't this one. Whether your opponent wants to have a beer with you after the duel is up to him and has nothing to do with what's going down here. What that is, is getting more uncertain by the post. Everybody seems to have made his/her point by now.

IMO, if you haven't figured out by now what you're doing in Mexico, it's time for a trip back to where you came from to get the feel of how it was. I just spent my first week out of Mexico in that ten years recently, and it was very enlightening.

I don't want to go back to all that.......and I'm sure about it. Everybody's stressed out over something, from what I can see.

This isn't perfect, but it will do, for me.

[Ajijic]

Jeanette ,,, agree totally and at same time as Gringal says there are many issues NOB making it too not always the best choice but to me that issue is not safety NOB.

I hear it often and Canadian friends who come here 6 months a year have friends who think they are crazy...... issue is SAFETY!!! Income to qualify, cars etc not a factor as they can not get past "safety".

I strongly believe the number of expats living full time at lakeside and SMA is down from the peak and declining. And, if more home owners could sell they would be gone. I am not sure they are leaving due to safety. It would be interesting to do a poll here... how many want to leave Mexico and why?

This week my wife assisted a lady with her visa renewal. After two break-ins at lakeside, one with a knife at her throat she recently moved to SMA. I suspect if one more similar experience she will be gone from Mexico.

[gringal]

Just for kicks, I'm actually living up here, NOB, with all those baby boomers you guys are discussing. The ones that are getting ready to retire. I'm one of them. We seriously considered moving to Lakeside. As part of this decision, we spent a total of ten months down there during the summers in 2010 and 2011. We've had MANY discussions with MANY people in various areas of the US about moving to Mexico for retirement. (No, I cannot say we've had discussions with Canadians)

I'll tell you what I hear. Please note, I'm not agreeing or supporting their opinions. I'm just passing on the information that we hear directly from the horses mouth.

Most baby boomers have no interest in moving to Mexico. Whether or not they could financially qualify for a VISA has never even entered their mind. Neither has the issue of the legality/illegality their US plated car. Bluntly put: They consider Mexico to be a dangerous place to live. You have no idea how pervasive this opinion is. Those that still consider the idea tend to look at the oceanfront areas - we know people who have purchased condos in PV, Mazatlan and Cabo. Rosarito Beach is gaining popularity, probably aided by it's status as a Free Zone area. None of these folks intend to stay in these homes full time, so for them, the INM issues are non-issues.

One of the main reasons WE considered Mexico was because of the difficulty of obtaining health insurance here in the US for those under medicare age. I know that we met others who lived in Lakeside (or considered moving to Mexico) for EXACTLY that reason. Now, with Obamacare about to take affect, lots of people believe that Fairy Dust will cure our health care and insurance woes. This is temporary, IMO. I think many people will reconsider health care costs as a reason to leave the US when they find out what the premiums REALLY are gonna cost them under the so-called Affordable Health Care Act.

But getting around the widespread opinion that Mexico is dangerous is the REAL barrier to bringing Baby Boomers to Mexico to retire.

You're probably right, Jeanette. There is a large segment of the population who probably are afraid to move to Mexico, especially to the inland areas.

I have a collection of cousins in the states on all sides of the political spectrum, and some are not at all concerned, while others are. Who knows as yet what the health care situation will finally shake out to be, especially for those too young to have Medicare?

In Mexico, it's kind of pay as you go, for most of us of any age.

I've met you and am sorry you won't be our neighbor one of these days. Buen Suerte, wherever you stay.

[snowyco]

No no no, you don't get off that easy, "not the smartest in the room"? - I'd like to put that one to a test vote. I've often been the smartest in the room and more often thought I WAS the smartest in the room - but you know what? - I've been shocked twice this year to find I was not either?

But, I want you to seriously focus on this and consider it before you answer, OK? The very document you are waving around (like Chamberlain and Peace in our time) is/was created by the exact same government and administration that today says our "unemployment" dropped to 7.3% (with 90,473,000 not working?) - now, you take time think on it, breath deeply and then tell me you still have the confidence that your stats are rock solid.

If you still believe that, then the fun begins, we set up the "dual" with seconds to verify and quantify what the bet will entail and we go from there. Of course it should focus on what the INM has, or is, doing to our immigration picture (as began this thread) and what might change to improve it, what might happen if it stands etc. that's the real question. No one (gosh help us) imagines that droves of BBoomers are going to descend on us and screw up what we have here. But, the overall picture is the bet.

First, as I wrote above, these are not "my stats". They are what the US Census Bureau has reported for median household assets and income for people between 55-64 years old. The median value is a simple concept: We count how many values there are, we make a list of their increasing order, and we look at what value is in the middle. For 100,001 values listed in order, number 50,001 is the median. Half of the values are larger than #50,001 and half are smaller.

This makes it a simple exercise of counting things - with no fuzzy-fying calculations.

Scientists and experts have agreed for 150 years that if the sample size is large enough, then that median value #50,001 represents the half way point.

Since the overall number of households used for this report was 118,689, experts and reasonable people say the sample size was large enough. Based on you lack of comments, it seems clear that you have still not read any of the 7 data tables in the 2011 study. Your unwillingness to read puts you at a disadvantage, so, I will help you: The number of housholders used for the 55-64 year old asset determinations was 22,329 households.

The 22,329 households is smaller than the total of 118,689, but 22,000 households is still a decent sample size.

For people who have not studied statistics, the Nielsen corp uses daily records from 25,000 "families" to determine their ratings. The world's largest companies rely on the data from these 25,000 families to decide whether to pay $50,000 or $500,000 dollars for an ad slot. Do we really think that the big brains at the world's biggest companies are foolish to make their choices based on data from 25,000 households?

Yes, I will stick out my neck, for you to gleefully chop-off, and agree that the $$ middle data point from a group of 22,329 households does show that at least half of the current Baby Boomers between ages 55-64 have enough money to meet INM's residency requirements.

Unfortunately, there are no more reliable reports on 55-64 year old's household assets than the US Census Bureau reports.

Why not just agree that the INM requirements are not "ridiculous" ?

Why not just agree that there are 10's of millions of Baby Boomers (out of the 100 million total), who do have the money right now, to meet the INM requirements?

Why not have some fun speculating on what these 10's of millions of Boomers will do with their retirement incomes and substantial savings, as they start retiring next year in 2014?

Why not agree that Americans and Canadians opinions about Mexico being too dangerous is a much more important factor right now, than INM requirements?

*Before anyone argues over 2014, 67 years old + 1947 birth date spike (according to the US Census Bureau) = 2014

as the year when the peak years of eligible retirees starts.

[jkgourmet]

Why not agree that Americans and Canadians opinions about Mexico being too dangerous is a much more important factor right now, than INM requirements?

EXACTLY my point. (at least as far as American's go. Again, I do not have enough contact with Canadians to state an opinion.)

[snowyco]

EXACTLY my point. (at least as far as American's go. Again, I do not have enough contact with Canadians to state an opinion.)

As a Boomer, with Boomer brothers and Boomer sisters, and Boomer friends, I think that not all Boomers are the same.

Are the Boomers who were born "first", right after WW2 really that similar to Boomers born in the center of the financial bonanza that was middle class life in the mid 1950s?

Are the Boomers who were born in 1964, at the end of the economic boom, really that similar to their brothers and sisters born in 1946, '47, & '48 ?

Will they travel in the same ways? Spend money in the same ways? ???

[mexpat06]

Well this wandered off and needs to be a new thread. Keep it pertinent and less personal.