carretera

[lobita]

Can someone phonetically break down for me (or even write in IPA, if that's easier) the correct Spanish pronunciation of 'carretera'?

Unfortunately this is the one Spanish word that I have only heard pronounced by gringos, and so the pronunciation in my head is 'care-uh-tare-uh', which I feel sure must sound painfully wrong to Mexican ears.

I'm assuming the first 'r' is rolled ... but I'm not certain exactly how the vowels should shake out.

[RVGRINGO]

Try it like this: car-eh-terrrrr-ah

[Travis]

Spanishdict.com is a great website for learners, and includes audio (and sometimes video) files with pronunciations and examples of usage. The site has both for carretera.

You are correct. Most of the foreigners here mispronounce it in an ear-splitting manner. Throw in a Texas twang and you've really got something special.

Hopefully, the link below will work. If not, just go to Spanishdict.com and enter carretera.

http://www.spanishdict.com/translate/carretera

[All Day]

Try it like this: car-eh-terrrrr-ah

Where you are showing ''rrrrrr''' is not correct. A single ''r'' in the middle of a word has more of a light ''d'' sound. The rolled ''r'' is found at the beginning of the word.

[RVGRINGO]

Then like this? carrr-eh-ter-ah

[cbviajero]

Nice link Travis.Grah-see-ahs!

All Day,rolled "r"s are my nemesis when it comes to speaking Spanish,se me lengua la traba,got any tips?

[All Day]

Then like this? carrr-eh-ter-ah

Yeah, but the average English speaker will pronounce ''ter-ah'' something like ''tear-ah'' (as in ''tearing a piece of cloth''), when in Spanish that ''ter'' is almost, but not quite, pronounced ''ted-ah'', with the ''d'' being very soft.

Sorry, I'm not a linguist and I don't know the technical explanation for what I'm trying to describe.

[Travis]

The young woman in the video on the Spanishdict.com website delivers a perfect example of what All Day is talking about when the "r" sounds almost like a "d".

And yeah, rolling the double r's or initial r is a challenge. Sometimes I get it just right, other times it comes out so ridiculously exaggerated I sound like a cartoon character. Fortunately, Mexicans are very forgiving and understand that we're all born with a verbal handicap.

I think it's mostly just a practice thing. There are several tonguetwisters (google trabalenguas) that force you to practice it. One famous one is below. There's also some trick/exercise you can do by placing a pencil between your teeth and forcing yourself to pronounce the sound. Impossible to describe.

2. ERRE CON ERRE
Version 1:
Erre con erre cigarro,
erre con erre barril.
Rápido corren los carros,
cargados de azúcar del ferrocarril.

Version 2:
Erre con erre cigarro,
erre con erre barril.
Rápido corren los carros,
detrás del ferrocarril.

Version 3:
Erre con erre guitarra,
erre con erre barril.
Mira que rápido ruedan,
las ruedas del ferrocarril.

[kbleitch]

As mentioned earlier, the single "r" between two vowels is almost a "d" sound (a soft "d"). Below is an easy way to help you see how that should sound coming out of your mouth, using the expression "para tí" (English equivalent is "for you / intended for you" - the informal "you")

Say in English: "pot of tea." Then continue to repeat it, losing the "f" in "of": pot o' tea. You will be saying "para tí" and pronouncing it very well.

As you repeat the expression with more speed, take note of where your tongue is when you are vocalizing the "t" in the word "pot." That is the same place your tongue should be when you are voicing the single "R" in "carretera," or any other single "R" between two vowels in español.

[lobita]

Thanks for the link, Travis. The audio doesn't seem to play for me (?) but the video (with audio track) was a big help. I think I've got it now!

(Well, more or less. Accent far from perfect, of course, but at least it's no longer 'care uh tare uh'.)

[More Liana]

Do you want to speak Spanish, or do you want to speak Spanish words with an English accent? One of the most helpful things I learned at the very beginning if learning Spanish is this: syllables are divided differently--and hence pronounced differently--in Spanish than in English. Carretera is a good example of how it works. Watch:

Using the English division of syllables, carretera would be pronounced carr-eh-TEHR-ah.

Using the Spanish division of syllables, carretera is pronounced cah-rreh-TEH-rah.

Trust me when I tell you that this is not nit-picking. It will make a pronounced (pun intended) difference in how your Spanish compares to Spanish spoken by native speakers. It takes a bit of concentration to get started, but once you're there, you'll be so pleased.

[lobita]

Liana, I'm interested, but not sure I altogether follow. When I read your Spanish-style phonetics, the only difference I can tell is that I automatically stress the second syllable instead of the third. (Though if you'd capitalized the third as you did in the English, that wouldn't be true, and they'd be the same, again afaict.)

What is supposed to be different?

[Travis]

DISCLAIMER: I'm just learning too, and I'm certain I butcher words on a daily basis, but...

Look at where the r's fall. In the English divisions, they end the first and third syllables. In the Spanish, they begin the second and fourth. If you watch that video again, the woman verbally breaks it down just as More Liana describes. I've never known about or thought about syllabic (?is that a word?) divisions. Mostly I just try to mimic the pronunciations I hear. But I have a pretty good ear for immitation. (In fact, sometimes just for fun my Spanish teacher asks me to immitate a bad foreign accent for him....and I always throw in a Farma-SEEya GuadalaHAIRa en la Care-uh-TEAR-uh when I do it.)

BTW, the stress/emphasis stays on the second to last syllable.

kbleitch, neat trick on the r becoming soft d thing. You're right. It really works when you ramp up the speed on 'pot o' tea' (as long as you have an American English accent!).

[More Liana]

Sorry about failing to put the appropriate stress on the THIRD syllable in both versions. I fixed it.

Lobita, are you familiar with the rules of Spanish pronunciation re accents? Here's a quickie: if the word ends in a vowel, with an 's', or with an 'n', the stress falls on the second to last syllable. If the word ends in a consonant other than 's', the stress falls on the FINAL syllable. If the word contains a vowel with an orthographic (written) accent (á, é, í, ó, ú), the stress falls on the syllable where the accent is.

As you can tell from that quickie explanation, at no time would the stress in cah-rreh-TEH-rah fall on the second syllable!

And Travis is 100% correct about the division of syllables. It honest and truly makes a huge difference in your Spanish pronunciation.

The other big secret about speaking relatively unaccented Spanish is to move all the muscles in your mouth to shape words. I well remember a man who told me--long years ago-- "Cristina, when you speak Spanish, you are not moving your upper lip. English-speakers have very lazy mouth muscles!" Ugh, so true. Practice at using ALL your mouth muscles--exaggerate their movements, for a while, until the exercise becomes second nature.

[lobita]

a bad foreign accent for him....and I always throw in a Farma-SEEya GuadalaHAIRa en la Care-uh-TEAR-uh when I do it.)

... and I had to go to spanishdict to see why 'Farma-SEEya' was wrong. doh!

I had assumed 'far-ma-SEE-ya' because it puts the stress on the second syllable, as it should be for the rule Liana just quoted. But the way Señora Spanishdict says it, I'm guessing that Spanish speakers consider 'cia' to be a single syllable with a dipthong. ¿Correcto?

[lobita]

With regard to the division of syllables ... I *see* the difference, obviously, but it doesn't make me *speak* any differently. I can't tell if I'm already doing it properly (and therefore is no difference) or if I'm still doing it wrong (and therefore is no difference).

I will try to pay attention to how much my upper lip moves!

[More Liana]

... and I had to go to spanishdict to see why 'Farma-SEEya' was wrong. doh!

I had assumed 'far-ma-SEE-ya' because it puts the stress on the second syllable, as it should be for the rule Liana just quoted. But the way Señora Spanishdict says it, I'm guessing that Spanish speakers consider 'cia' to be a single syllable with a dipthong. ¿Correcto?

Lobita, you're confused. The second syllable in fahr-MAH-sya is MAH. When any Spanish word ends with an 'a' (or any other vowel, or 'n', or 's'), the stress is on the next-to-the-last syllable--unless there is a written accent on another vowel in the word. In the case of farmacia, there is no written accent anywhere in the word. Therefore, the stress in farmacia is on the MAH. It is mere coincidence that MAH is the second syllable and also the second-to-the-last syllable--like CAH-sah and NEE-ñah. And yes, the 'cia' in this instance is a diphthong, very good.

I think your confusion--and the confusion, frankly, of most foreigners who are trying to learn to speak Spanish, is that most of the other words used for types of stores (papelería, carnecería, juguetería, for example: paper goods store, butcher shop, toy store)--end in ía. Look closely and you will see that there is an accent mark above that 'i'--which, because it is a written accent, puts the stress on the 'i'. Pah-peh-leh-RÍA. No dipthong.

With regard to your pronounciation of words in particular and cah-rreh-TEH-rah in particular, go back up to the other post that I wrote about syllable division. Out loud, say the English version exactly like I wrote it. "Cahrr-eh-TEHR-ah". Exaggerate each syllable and pause between them. Then try it in the Spanish version: cah-rreh-TEH-rah. Say the syllables individually, again exaggerating and pausing, and you will hear the difference. This difference is true in every Spanish word, and it's truly important to say words this way to achieve accurate pronounciation.

[lobita]

Sorry -- in that case it wasn't that I was confused; I just misspoke. I meant second-to-last syllable, not second. It was the dipthong that was throwing me. I would normally consider 'far-ma-ci-a' to have four syllables -- so the second-to-last syllable would be 'ci' -- whereas in Spanish apparently it's considered to have only three. I guess I need to find a list of Spanish dipthongs ...

And you're right, I had grouped 'farmacia' in with all the other 'store' words, without noticing it alone lacked the accent mark.

Carretera: yes, if I'm going to pause between each syllable, of course there's a difference in whether the consonant comes before or after the artificial pause. But in normal speaking, with all the syllables strung together I do not (yet?) understand what the difference is. <dons duncecap>

[More Liana]

Yet. You will understand it, I promise. The difference is between speaking Spanish words in a non-Spanish way and speaking Spanish words like a native speaker.

[Travis]

Lobita, don't sweat it too much until you get here. Once you're here, you'll be surrounded by Spanish and will be able to hear how people pronounce words and phrases. If you have an even halfway decent ear, you'll hear the difference and be able to use it to improve your pronunciation.

You don't sound like a beginner based on your questions, but I'll suggest something anyway in case it might help. In the beginning I think it's a great idea to focus, really focus, on the vowel sounds. Nail them down as close to perfect as you can get. Own them. The beauty of Spanish, unlike English, is those vowel sounds are incredibly consistent, they (almost) never change. You said something earlier about vowels so that's why I mention it.

I know some foreigners here who have spent a decent amount of time trying to learn Spanish, but haven't paid much attention to pronunciation. They have a fair vocabulary, can successfully string together some sentences etc., and still, even I can't understand what they're saying. Mexicans must be completely in the dark when they speak.

Just the fact that you're already concerned about pronunciation bodes well for you.

Lastly, I'll say this. As long as you can be understood, It's OKAY to have a foreign accent when you speak Spanish! We all have one.

[lobita]

Yes, this is my first time with Spanish, aside from the little bit that one automatically assimilates while growing up in Texas. Formally, I studied some German, a smidgen of French, and a lot (approaching fluency) of ASL -- all of it more than a decade ago.

Most of Spanish makes intuitive sense to me -- say upwards of 95%. It is, as you said, remarkably consistent -- in more than just vowels! But the few things that I have trouble with, I *really* have trouble with. I'll get it, though. I may never sound exactly like a native, but I firmly intend to achieve fluency.

Thanks for the encouragement and help, Travis & Liana!

[More Liana]

Yes, this is my first time with Spanish, aside from the little bit that one automatically assimilates while growing up in Texas. Formally, I studied some German, a smidgen of French, and a lot (approaching fluency) of ASL -- all of it more than a decade ago.

Most of Spanish makes intuitive sense to me -- say upwards of 95%. It is, as you said, remarkably consistent -- in more than just vowels! But the few things that I have trouble with, I *really* have trouble with. I'll get it, though. I may never sound exactly like a native, but I firmly intend to achieve fluency.

Thanks for the encouragement and help, Travis & Liana!

You are most welcome! You are well on the way to your goal, congratulations.

[Travis]

No hay de queso...

(Which probably is more appropriate in the "What does this mean in English?" thread. )