Friends and Family afraid to visit Mexico?

[More Liana]

One poster commented on how people can become victimized by the police when reporting a crime on another thread recently. Many seem to be following what I consider a lower class way of thinking and many have no confidence in any authorities in Mexico though ignorance and past bad experiences, possibly as long as 30 years ago, or have heard of these things happening to others.

These few seem to have no understanding of modern Mexico IMO, or maybe they themselves have a good reason.

When a citizen is assaulted or robbed they need to report it police and others for insurance or medical insurance reporting and claims that need it in writing. So most people report crime as they have insurance and have absolutely no fear of the authorities and know people in authority or work for the authorities.

Some people of the lower classes have a disdain for Mexican authorities and fear them. Most do not. Old school thinking and best to be avoided.

Also some that spread disdain for all authority are sometimes the ones living under the radar, pay no taxes, do not have IMSS pensions and medical coverage etc. nothing to lose. Possibly even involved in illegal activities and have a good reason for the fear they have of coming into contact with any authorities.

Most people don´t buy into what others say without a good reason or two. IMO

Alan, I'm sorry to disagree with you but I do--100% disagree.

I'm not lower class and the Mexican friends and neighbors I socialize with are not lower class. We are all university educated, have substantial incomes, and live in well-located, well-appointed homes in excellent areas of Guadalajara, Morelia, and Mexico City. We are all law-abiding and have never been involved in illegal activities.

When my wife and I lived in Morelia, we lived in a quite upper-class colonia--and we were burglarized. The day after the burglary, I mentioned to our next door neighbors that 'they' (the burglars) had broken into our house while we were out and had stolen a lot of things--a camera, some cash, all the gold jewelry that we weren't wearing, etc. The first thing the neighbor said? "Did you call the police?" No. "Thank God! The police are worse than the burglars. We don't want them coming near the neighborhood, and don't ever let them in your home, they will steal whatever the burglars didn't take."

That is the attitude of everyone we know in Mexico. The consensus among our Mexican friends is, "The main difference between life in the USA and life in Mexico is that in the USA, you can call the police and get help. Here, you just get another ripoff--or worse."

I think your ideas are tainted by an extremely negative and generalized view of Mexicans, plus wishful thinking about what is 'modern' and what is old-fashioned. The cops are corrupt. Period.

[bmh]

I agree with Moreliana 100% .most Mexican I know do not trust the police, it is not a question of class , most of them if not all of them , tell me not to trust the police.

[lakeside101]

i just watched Presunto Culpable...... i fear the policia

[AlanMexicali]

Alan, I'm sorry to disagree with you but I do--100% disagree.

I'm not lower class and the Mexican friends and neighbors I socialize with are not lower class. We are all university educated, have substantial incomes, and live in well-located, well-appointed homes in excellent areas of Guadalajara, Morelia, and Mexico City. We are all law-abiding and have never been involved in illegal activities.

When my wife and I lived in Morelia, we lived in a quite upper-class colonia--and we were burglarized. The day after the burglary, I mentioned to our next door neighbors that 'they' (the burglars) had broken into our house while we were out and had stolen a lot of things--a camera, some cash, all the gold jewelry that we weren't wearing, etc. The first thing the neighbor said? "Did you call the police?" No. "Thank God! The police are worse than the burglars. We don't want them coming near the neighborhood, and don't ever let them in your home, they will steal whatever the burglars didn't take."

That is the attitude of everyone we know in Mexico. The consensus among our Mexican friends is, "The main difference between life in the USA and life in Mexico is that in the USA, you can call the police and get help. Here, you just get another ripoff--or worse."

I think your ideas are tainted by an extremely negative and generalized view of Mexicans, plus wishful thinking about what is 'modern' and what is old-fashioned. The cops are corrupt. Period.

I do agree with my post being negative, condescending and very poor generalizations with little thought put into writing it. I am sorry for writing this particular post. Thoughtless and not very well written either.

[More Liana]

I do agree with my post being negative, condescending and very poor generalizations with little thought put into writing it. I am sorry for writing this particular post. Thoughtless and not very well written either.

Alan, you're a gem. Thanks for this, it goes a long way.

[Canamex]

I'll add to Liana's comments by informing Alan that my Mexican spouse and I are also both university educated as well, live in one of the wealthier parts of Ajijic, as well as Toronto when there and in Guadalajara when we lived there.

My spouse is far more proactive and less defeatist than he was when i met him about the role one might play in reporting a crime and trying to see it through, but his opinion of the police (and the Ministerio and entire Mexican judicial system) has not changed much, if at all. When he meets a good official, professional and obviously not corrupt as he did the other day, then he is pleased, he knows not every individual is bad. I think being Mexican, growing up inside the culture, gives a perspective that a foreigner can never repeat or learn, no matter how many Mexican wives one has had or how well one speaks Spanish.

The first poster would do well to see another example of making incorrect and absurd assumptions.

[AlanMexicali]

I'll add to Liana's comments by informing Alan that my Mexican spouse and I are also both university educated as well, live in one of the wealthier parts of Ajijic, as well as Toronto when there and in Guadalajara when we lived there.

My spouse is far more proactive and less defeatist than he was when i met him about the role one might play in reporting a crime and trying to see it through, but his opinion of the police (and the Ministerio and entire Mexican judicial system) has not changed much, if at all. When he meets a good official, professional and obviously not corrupt as he did the other day, then he is pleased, he knows not every individual is bad. I think being Mexican, growing up inside the culture, gives a perspective that a foreigner can never repeat or learn, no matter how many Mexican wives one has had or how well one speaks Spanish.

The first poster would do well to see another example of making incorrect and absurd assumptions.

On rereading your original post even when calling comparisons to Canada "moronic" which might be so when it comes to reporting crime here and your comment " for being in bed with the devil" had me wondering. I misunderstood the comment, "defending the indefendable" as referring to your property. Sorry for that.

The 2 posts before your post were commenting on home security and I assumed you were also.

Quote:

"Yes, yes, we all know the security steps we can take. But the barbed wire, electrified fencing makes Ajijic look more like a fortification than the sleepy Mexican village we first visited 12 years ago."

And

Quote:

"Yet when i go to places like Bara de Navidad, Colima, Queretaro (best not promote SMA jeje) I do not see all the same safety / security precautions and in especially Barra amazingly open properties."

Also since about 2006 and on many people have insurance on their stuff at home, not only vehicle insurance that I know here, including friends, neighbors and relatives. Without an official report of thief in a breakin these insurance companies will not settle. At least here no one seems to have fear of the local police or transitos. I presume in some areas this is different.

Some things that appear normal now were not normal in middle class and upper middle class society in past decades as things have changed considerably. This was my point to begin with.

[AlanMexicali]

Takes a good man to admit when he is wrong ! Look forward to many more helpful posts from you, Alan ! Thanks.

I appreciate your comment. I was wrong to assume a few things and reacted badly here.

[AlanMexicali]

Alan, you're a gem. Thanks for this, it goes a long way.

Thanks for understanding we sometimes overreact and regret it latter.

[Canamex]

There's a nice article in the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372 that really elucidates the whole issue of collection (and misuse) of statistics.

Why would Australia and Canada be the "kidnap capitals" of the world? It's because "parental disputes over child custody are including in the figures". The article also discusses rape statistics in Sweden, which apparently suggest that it is the second or two rape capitals of the world, but then goes on to explain the way complaints are recorded and how that inflates the number of apparent rapes.

It's essentially impossible for amateurs like real estate agents, or anyone else with a huge axe to grind, to use statistics intelligently and fairly, and thus nearly impossible to make meaningful comparisons across countries. Mexico is one very good example of a country whose definitions of certain crimes differs greatly from, say, the US or Canada or the UK, whose reporting of crimes is impeded by other circumstances, and whose collection of data is spotty and questionable.

Thanks Alan, it does take a big person to admit a booboo.