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It didn't bother me either, heck I live clear across town on the east side. And when I take my hearing aids off, I can't hear incoming mortar rounds. :)

For me, this is about supporting my community and about standing up for our local west side kids whose soccer field has been trashed, and in a greater sense standing against adults that lure kids to events like this and then let them run amuck and become fodder for drug dealers and worse. I just can't imagine the mentality that would approve of kids being exposed to ear damaging music, drugs, and encouragement to act like a bunch of little savages.

What have we become as people when we confuse kids having fun with kids being exposed to such toxicity? Why should we be surprised when so many of them turn into sicarios when their parents and other supposedly responsible adults allow them to be exposed to this kind of environment?

The noise is temporary. We can clean up the mess again. The soccer field can be restored. How do you restore kids who have been basically shown that drugs are OK, that trashing a place is OK, that total disregard for the neighbors is OK?

That's where I'm coming from on this.

MC--I have sent you a PM

Lexy

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I live roughly 2, maybe 3 blocks from the "park" at the end of Calle Mirasol. For the first 2 years it was a nightly nightmare the windows literally vibrated due to the amplified noise they call music. Then the police started shutting it down and sadly I believe that was where 5 people were killed a year ago May and since that day almost no one goes there day or night. Today, and tonite, it's quiet as it should be, it's wonderful to sleep with doors and windows open. As Paul Harvey used to say, your rights end where my nose begins, or in this case ears.

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I just can't imagine the mentality that would approve of kids being exposed to ear damaging music, drugs, and encouragement to act like a bunch of little savages.

OK Kurtz, I read you loud and clear.

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OK Kurtz, I read you loud and clear.

LOL. I googled up "Kurtz" and got a number of fascinating hits, including a 19th century African ivory trader from Conrad's novel, "Heart of Darkness" to a seriously ruthless Colonel Kurtz from Vietnam. There was also a Paul Kurtz, a very notable scholar who basically created secular humanism.

I decided my favorite Kurtz was the Colonel. Be very careful, I may be collecting ears or dropping heads in your vicinity soon: :D

Colonel Kurtz is based on the character of a nineteenth-century ivory trader, also called Kurtz, from the novella Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. However, the movie's Kurtz is widely believed to have been modeled after Tony Poe, a highly decorated and highly unorthodox Vietnam War-era paramilitary officer from the CIA's Special Activities Division.[1] Poe was known to drop severed heads into enemy-controlled villages as a form of psychological warfare and to use human ears to record the number of enemies his indigenous troops had killed. He would send these ears back to his superiors as proof of his efforts deep inside Laos.[2][3]

[4]

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"Delegado Hector Espana and a group of citizens went to the Presidente's office yesterday to express their displeasure at the Presidente allowing a rave to be held in Ajijic. "We raised hell" he said, but, the Presidente conveniently was absent. Hector was returning later in the day to see the presidente. More info as available. "......

I spoke with some of my Mexican neighbor's yesterday and they were very angry and concerned. They told me the Presidente in Chapala was the only one who 'profited' from this event...and that only 1000 pesos were 'donated' to Ajijic for the clean up! They said they were taking steps to prevent another event here.

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I see that you live in a place called San Pedro de los Saguaros.

San Pedro de los Saguaros is a microcosm of Mexico.

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FHBOY, why would you want to do this to Christiana Park and our neighbors in Chapala either.

If these Tapatios want to have a Rave, let them have it in their town. At least they won't have to clean up the graffiti afterwards since the place is already covered with it. :)

I suspect though, that the rumors are correct and GDL wants no part of this either. :D

Only because it looks like a better site: the park is fenced, there is a lot of room, there are built in sanitary facilities and I suspect crowd control would be easier and, (opinion) the government in Chapala would not like to see any of the rowdies taking to their well groomed and appointed streets.

I suppose the evil part of me wants the Presidente and his neighbors to experience the Rave as the Ajijic residents did, but I also suppose (yawn) that he will be out of town when it happens.

In truth, and being part of the Woodstock Generation - I hold not breach with kids getting together (as Max Yasgur said ) "..and having [24 hours] or 3 days of fun and music, and have nothing but fun and music...", but there must be a better venue, a farm like environment, a protected open area, where it can happen. I'm too new to know where... :) but, there seems to be a lot of dry lake bed around now...how about building a Woodstock like enclosure and have it there...until the water comes back.

It is great to see kids doing what they enjoy, it is great that they want to be together, I'm all for that, but the only issue is where? The middle, or even the outskirts, of a residential neighborhood does not seems to be the place.

I am not of the opinion that Ajijic is a retirement community - at least I hope we are not Century Village Sur - and as such we have chosen not to be in a retirement community, but live in a living community, heterogeneous and inter-generational.

Seeing young people around here is refreshing and they are, in general, very polite. They waved to me, said Hello, and showed respect...as individuals...but as a crowd, that can be a different matter. I say that they are welcome to come and celebrate in the way their generation does, and if it needs to be in this community, for 24 hours, let's work to find a venue that is more conducive for every one.

Somehow seeing the kids on the street reminds me that I am closer to being alive, than being dead...and I like that.

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Only because it looks like a better site: the park is fenced, there is a lot of room, there are built in sanitary facilities and I suspect crowd control would be easier and, (opinion) the government in Chapala would not like to see any of the rowdies taking to their well groomed and appointed streets.

I suppose the evil part of me wants the Presidente and his neighbors to experience the Rave as the Ajijic residents did, but I also suppose (yawn) that he will be out of town when it happens.

In truth, and being part of the Woodstock Generation - I hold not breach with kids getting together (as Max Yasgur said ) "..and having [24 hours] or 3 days of fun and music, and have nothing but fun and music...", but there must be a better venue, a farm like environment, a protected open area, where it can happen. I'm too new to know where... :) but, there seems to be a lot of dry lake bed around now...how about building a Woodstock like enclosure and have it there...until the water comes back.

It is great to see kids doing what they enjoy, it is great that they want to be together, I'm all for that, but the only issue is where? The middle, or even the outskirts, of a residential neighborhood does not seems to be the place.

I am not of the opinion that Ajijic is a retirement community - at least I hope we are not Century Village Sur - and as such we have chosen not to be in a retirement community, but live in a living community, heterogeneous and inter-generational.

Seeing young people around here is refreshing and they are, in general, very polite. They waved to me, said Hello, and showed respect...as individuals...but as a crowd, that can be a different matter. I say that they are welcome to come and celebrate in the way their generation does, and if it needs to be in this community, for 24 hours, let's work to find a venue that is more conducive for every one.

Somehow seeing the kids on the street reminds me that I am closer to being alive, than being dead...and I like that.

Thanks FHBoy, for hitting it on the head.

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There are fees for the use of parks, event centers or clubs, etc., and there are several large, private venues; even near Ajijic and hight above it, where such events can be held. However, that would require admission fees, caterers, etc. The use of federal land along the shore was probably free; except for the permit/propina, or whatever it was.

The story probably runs much deeper and the more the expats complain, the more likely they are to have more such events. Things are changing and so are local attitudes.

I could not help but not the number of times OUR was used in many of these posts, mostly by expats. Seldom, THIER park or kids, etc. I sense divisiveness growing, in spite of the emphasis on COMMUNITY by expat posters.

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RV please read Ajijic_hiker's post

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hector has an appointment with the Presidente at 6p.m. Hopefully, he'll get some answers. I've asked him to specifically question El P. about July 27

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It's interesting to compare a full-on rave with Woodstock, which was held in Bethel, New York--after the conservative old-Dutch Woodstock town council refused permission for the festival to be held anywhere in or near town. The Woodstock festival organizers printed all the festival publicity--posters, tickets, etc--and then thought they'd better see if it would be okay with the town to actually have the festival there. Nope, it definitely was not okay.

I wasn't at the Woodstock festival, but I did live and work in Woodstock for quite a while starting soon after the festival--and by coincidence, was there for a visit just last week. Nothing much has changed. In some ways Woodstock reminds me of the Lakeside area: incredible natural beauty, some working professional and amateur artists and a lot of wannabes, more restaurants than you can shake a stick at, highly touristed and tourist-y, plenty of retirees from New York City, and a somewhat larger number of locals. Pretty much the same mix as at Lakeside, just a slightly different demographic and wildly different weather.

I wonder if the Chapala powers-that-be understood the implications of 'rave'--or if the scent of the undoubtedly large amount of money coming in to some municipal officials' hands simply led to purchased ignorance of the significance of what was to come during the weekend blowout. I suspect the latter to be true.

If Chapala won't cancel the July 27 event, you guys are going to need to get out of Dodge for a while. There are lots of nearby options. An overnight in Guadalajara can be lots of fun, or in Tapalpa if you prefer a rural ambience. Just poke a pin in a map and discover something new.

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I asked and was told, just a few minutes ago, from a reliable source (someone who knows all the 'players' if you will...) that the 27th event will not be in Aijjic.

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There are fees for the use of parks, event centers or clubs, etc., and there are several large, private venues; even near Ajijic and hight above it, where such events can be held. However, that would require admission fees, caterers, etc. The use of federal land along the shore was probably free; except for the permit/propina, or whatever it was.

The story probably runs much deeper and the more the expats complain, the more likely they are to have more such events. Things are changing and so are local attitudes.

I could not help but not the number of times OUR was used in many of these posts, mostly by expats. Seldom, THIER park or kids, etc. I sense divisiveness growing, in spite of the emphasis on COMMUNITY by expat posters.

RV - respectfully I disagree. Maybe to many, many people there is an "us vs. them" or an "us AND them" mentality and as I see it, that sux. Yet, I know personally that there are many who believe that our town is and still can be a "we". Unfortunately, too many posts seem to emphasize the former and not the latter.

Understand that this event did more, in some ways, to galvanize the Anglo and Mexican community together. The complaints about it were solely Anglo complaints, but Hector garnered Mexican complaints also, and it is he, for this and many other reasons who is going to meet with the Presidente - it is not an Anglo meeting.

No matter where in the world one travels, and you have traveled a lot, you find an 'us vs. them" ethos, even in the good ole USA where it is now institutionalized. We can't change that, but we can refuse to become a part of it. Ajijic is my home, and my home has many, many people in it. Because of my lack of fluency in the language for now it is easy to make the us vs them analogies, which I try not to. When I become more fluent, then the barrier of language can be broken and with understanding of communication one can become integrated more and really become part of the community. Maybe that is my goal, it does not have to be everyone's.

WAY OFF TOPIC:

I was warned when I first started this journey to get here that this mentality can and does exist as people take to their enclaves, or their walled communities (there is nothing wrong with them) and, unfortunately then, build up the walls in their dealings with life here also. If that is the way one wants to live, so be it. But if that is the choice, then one can't expect to have a voice or any amount of influence over what happens outside their mental or physical walls. It is only when you decide that there is a lot to know, to experience and, yes, some of it is not pleasant and may be scary, that you can overcome a "ghettoized" mentality.

Before everyone starts piling on, for many that is the life they came down here for and it is not for me or anyone else to judge. We all came here for comfort and the only one who can establish what is comfortable...for you...is you. I know many people, so far, who live in gated communities and they are very, very nice people, good people and fine people and yet they have gone out of those confines to become a part of the greater community.. Then again, some don't. And again, their choice.

BACK ON TOPIC:

Yes, there are fees and such for venues, but any event organizer must take this into account and charge accordingly. It is not for a community or government to underwrite that cost, unless it is a government sponsored event. And if the organizers wish to maintain good will in the community, then they will respect it and be open and honest so they will be welcomed back...and unfortunately because of the way this thing happened last weekend, they do not seem welcomed back into Ajijic.

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It didn't bother me either, heck I live clear across town on the east side. And when I take my hearing aids off, I can't hear incoming mortar rounds. :)

For me, this is about supporting my community and about standing up for our local west side kids whose soccer field has been trashed, and in a greater sense standing against adults that lure kids to events like this and then let them run amuck and become fodder for drug dealers and worse. I just can't imagine the mentality that would approve of kids being exposed to ear damaging music, drugs, and encouragement to act like a bunch of little savages.

What have we become as people when we confuse kids having fun with kids being exposed to such toxicity? Why should we be surprised when so many of them turn into sicarios when their parents and other supposedly responsible adults allow them to be exposed to this kind of environment?

The noise is temporary. We can clean up the mess again. The soccer field can be restored. How do you restore kids who have been basically shown that drugs are OK, that trashing a place is OK, that total disregard for the neighbors is OK?

That's where I'm coming from on this.

I agree with you Mainecoons. Just this past weekend at Mission Gorge up in the Nortwest on the Columbia River there was a concert/rave. 100 kids were hospitalized and 1 died from a bad batch of the drug Ecstasy.

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I was at LCS this afternoon when Chapala delegado Huerta and Ajijic Delegado Hector Espana both attended the festivities and spoke. They both got applause, but Hector got loud clapping and cheers. They both had smiles, so I suspect the situation has been discussed, and I am hoping a good outcome will ensue. I am not printing protest banners YET.

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I am wondering if it is possible that the drug cartel in the vicinity had any influence on this situation. It would be a very good place for them to sell their wares ... however, there again I don't think that they would need a rave to dispense their product.

Someone posted that they found these attendees to be friendly and respectful. What I saw when I drove through town the next day were large and small groups of dirty looking young people that walked down the sides of the street in such large groups that you could not pass them safely. They did not seem to have any regard for the traffic. At the time I had no idea who they were or why they were here as we are far enough away from the soccer field we did not hear them ... however, I came home and told my husband that the town was full of creepy, druggy looking young people and I hoped this was not a start of something.

As for them being friendly and respectful ... is trashing a place just because you can being friendly and respectful?

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Young folks show up every week-end, somtimes they bring the drugs, sometimes buy them here, or simply drink a lot. Y'all just had more of them then usual at one time.

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The complaints came from the Mexican community, not just the ex-pats.

The entrance charge for the out-of-owners who were the very largest majority, was 350 pesos. Just about all the money collected went to the organizers. I doubt there was good-will involved. Ecstasy and other drugs as well as liquor were being sold and used. The Presidente must have decided that it was " worth it" to allow it.

There have been many other Musical events on the Malecon and park. THOSE were pretty much good, clean fun and very well-accepted by the community. This RAVE was nowhere in the same league.

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When I posted on the original thread, more than one poster said this was a high school graduation and I was in favor of such a one-time event for one night, to keep kids off the road while celebrating completion of school.

It's now clear this was a commercial venture where illicit drug sales and usage was openly allowed.

I do no agree at all with FHBoy who wrote this after the facts of this event were clear:

It is great to see kids doing what they enjoy, it is great that they want to be together, I'm all for that, but the only issue is where?

I know the mods don't like when things get 'personal' but in this case, FHBoy sits on Hector's committee and I wonder if he's the right person for that job.

This sort of event, where a group of outsiders came into our community, destroyed our property, etc. should not be tolerated in Ajijic, in Chapala or frankly anywhere.

I smoked plenty in my time, but these rave drugs are not the same. From what I hear, meth is now more popular at raves. They have a psychotic effect and do permanent damage to the body. And they are illegal and should not be tolerated in our community (or anyone's).

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You haven't a clue what went on here.

Maybe a clue. The last mega outdoor concert and attended was Altamont. And that was probably the last outdoor event. No crowd control, poor organization, poor security, too many with a lot of energy on various substances. My point was that drug use is pretty common around here without the concerts. Meth, yeah. Kids and drugs use is a problem. They don't need the rave for that.

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Sorry, that doesn't excuse official tolerance of this kind of activity. It is time we all started acting like adults and not permitting other adults to create a nuisance event that is flat out hazardous for youngsters. People kill other people, shall we have someone come in and have an organized murder event?

Of course not but respectfully, I think that is the flaw in your reasoning.

I'm a member of that Woodstock generation too and we have let things go too far. Because of our tolerance for drugging, tens of thousands of Mexicans are dead, millions of lives of young people have been damaged and destroyed.

We can't solve the world's problems but we can exercise a responsibility not to allow other adults to do things like this to our community and to the greater community of young people.

When civilization no longer protects its children there will no longer be civilization. And frankly, I look around me and I look at what is happening NOB and I think we are not protecting our children either as individuals or as communities.

It takes a village and it is time for this village to say NO to this sort of thing.

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I agree with you Mainecoons. Just this past weekend at Mission Gorge up in the Nortwest on the Columbia River there was a concert/rave. 100 kids were hospitalized and 1 died from a bad batch of the drug Ecstasy.

Just where is this location you're referring to? Google knows nothing about it. I'm from OR and never heard of it and I didn't see anything on any of the NW TV stations about the incident you're referring to. Could you site a source pls?

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