Torontonian Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 I will give the toilets the dye test to see if there is a leak but before I do that am enquiring of the handy types here about my problem. I have an aljibe and a pump, no tinaco. The pump is coming on - for a short period - when I have not used water for hours. This morning as I walked in, having been out for 90 minutes. Or at 1:00 a.m. It also comes on at the expected times such as when showering or doing a wash. The number of times in a day does not seem excessive but it doesn't make sense to me that it would come on when I have not used water. Is there a logical explanation? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 First question: Do you have a pressure tank? If you do, when was the last time you inflated the bladder in it? If never, or years, inflate the bladder through the air fitting on the top of the pressure tank to around 20 psi. Yes, check the toilets first. Even a very small leak will cause what you are seeing. If all of the above is OK, shut off the house feed on the pressure side of the pump and see if you are still losing pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMexicali Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 First question: Do you have a pressure tank? If you do, when was the last time you inflated the bladder in it? If never, or years, inflate the bladder through the air fitting on the top of the pressure tank to around 20 psi. Yes, check the toilets first. Even a very small leak will cause what you are seeing. If all of the above is OK, shut off the house feed on the pressure side of the pump and see if you are still losing pressure. If not any of the above and the water was off recently it could be air in the line somewhere where if the air is it in circulation pipes if you have solar hot water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Shrall Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 I just went through several months investigating the same problem - the pressure pump coming when no water was being used. You can get lucky and find an obvious solution like a toilet leak but often it can take a lot of time to investigate. Faulty toilet flappers or too high water levels causing overflow are the easiest to find. You can do the dye test or just turn off the water valve on all the toilets and check the level after a few hours. If the tank is empty change the flapper. After a flush watch the water level at the time of shutoff. If it gets too close to the overflow valve adjust the float. If that isn't it go to the pressure tank. If you unscrew the air valve and press it for a second you should get a little air. If you get water then the bladder is compromised. To eliminate the pressure tank completely turn off the valves that are usually on the other side of the pressure tank which cuts off water to the main distribution line. Do this immediately after the tank is pressurized. Look at the pressure gauge on the pump and then wait. If the pressure holds then the problem is between the valve and the house. If it drops it is either the tank, the check valve normally located near the pump or the foot valve called the pinchacha located at the bottom of the tube going into the aljibe. If water goes back into the aljibe because of a faulty valve that is supposed to close to prevent water from going backwards, you can lose pressure in the tank. Those are the easy solutions. If you are still losing pressure then you have to find the valves that cut off the hot and cold water supply to the house. If the problem persists then you're lucky and the problem is not inside the house or underground. Look for wet areas on the ground outside. That doesn't always work if you live on the mountainside where the ground is very porous. If all that fails then there is an underground leak. Call Brad Grieve who has listening and metal detection equipment to track pipes and listen for leaks. That's what I just went through. it turned out that a line branching off the main galvanized distribution line had a leak. I had a plumber cut the main line and run a replacement instead of digging to locate the leak. Hopefully the problem has one of the easy solutions but if not, you have to eliminate where there isn't a problem in order to discover the cure. Kind of like going to the doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torontonian Posted June 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Thank you for those suggestions. I will call the plumber, armed with the info you have given. I had him here the other day for this reason. I had turned off the pump when I heard it running for no reason and left it off until he arrived 18 hours later. He plugged it in and said all was well, that I was getting pressure, that the hand on the gauge was moving up. He seemed to think that I must have left a tap on inside. Of course I knew that I hadn't. I asked if I might have a leak somewhere and he kind of shrugged and said Yes, and No, he did not have equipment for testing that. From having read of your problem, John, I knew that Brad Grieve does so I did not pursue this further. Then we got sidetracked with dealing with the scummy water in my aljibe. Standing in my shower one day I was sure I could hear water running - sounded like far away. Inside a wall or underground I presume. I hadn't used that shower in weeks. I've listened several times since and do not hear it but the pump continues to come on. Meanwhile (1:30 pm) I have turned off the water supply to my toilets and am waiting to see if that is the problem. I wish!! Do you have a recommendation for a plumber? I am not sure I want to try my usual guy for this. Thanks again to both of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpb Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Sent a PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TioBob Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 For everyone including torontonian. If you have an occasion to check your foot valve, consider cutting the supply pipe 18 inches or more. Typically submersible pumps or intake valves are installed very close to the bottom. This is done to get more water out of the storage tank. The down side to too low of an intake is you pick up more sediment making filter suppliers rich. I recommend sacrificing some available storage for cleaner water. Also, and extremely important, put in a carbon filter. I know they are more expensive but the white or sediment filters mainly remove dirt. Carbon removes chemicals, pesticides, herbicides, trihalomethane compounds and hundreds of other man made compounds that can get in water.. Google what carbon removes and decide if you want it on and in your body. By the way, almost all the drinking water Lakeside is from wells, so don't rely on that keeping you safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerGuy Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 My aljibe pump has been coming on a little more frequently. I do not have a pressure system. I imagine it is working a little harder to get the street water these days, because water usage is up and availability is down. I'm in Riberas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourbonman Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Your pump should not be working to get "street water". your aljibe should be filled by the pressure from the street. Your pump should be running to fill your Tenaca (if you have one, and will be located on your roof) Or you can have a pump that is pressure sensitive. When pressure is reduced by a preset amount, your pump will run to build up & maintain the pressure. Pressure tanks will be located between the Tenaca and the outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torontonian Posted June 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Update. One toilet has a slow leak. I put dye in the tanks of both toilets and within 20 seconds the water in the ensuite toilet was pink. The other one was fine. I can also hear a very faint hum when I put my ear to the "bad" toilet tank and no noise comes from the "good" one. I tried wiping off the bottom of the flapper and the ring where it fits but this did not stop the hum so I have called a plumber who will come tomorrow. I am very grateful to all those who shared their expertise on the board. Gracias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Buy flappers that have a good weight to them at any ferreteria or Walmart. It takes about 1 minute to install them yourselves. We do it about once a year. Preventative maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerGuy Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Your pump should not be working to get "street water". your aljibe should be filled by the pressure from the street. Your pump should be running to fill your Tenaca (if you have one, and will be located on your roof) Or you can have a pump that is pressure sensitive. When pressure is reduced by a preset amount, your pump will run to build up & maintain the pressure. Pressure tanks will be located between the Tenaca and the outlet. Sorry, you are quite right. Don't know what I was thinking. So that means I am personally using more water, obviously. (Some days are "duh" days...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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