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Returns seguro necessary?


Tadpole

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A question for those of you who have recently driven NOB after receiving your Permanente. Did you have a Returno Seguro? Did anyone ask for it? Do you think it is necessary? I ask because I will be driving back and have a specific date I need to leave on. Who is to say that the 5 day window would correspond to the date I need to cross the border should I get one. They can keep my TIP (will count it as road tax for the time I have. Been here) and I am resigned to the fact that my insurance may not be any good. I will be very careful and have hired someone to travel back with me in case of issues. I just want to get the #%#% J car back to Texas and sold!

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Looks like TX is benefitting from our loss of J cars. So sad to think I have to sell my Mazda Miata....

:(

Valerie

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A question for those of you who have recently driven NOB after receiving your Permanente. Did you have a Returno Seguro? Did anyone ask for it? Do you think it is necessary?

While I don't have any personal experience doing this, I have just about as good.

Back in March I traveled (separate car) from Lake Chapala to the border with a guy who had his Permanente and had his Returno Seguro. I was buying the car from him at the border. At a regular Federale stop somewhere he had to explain the purpose of it. I had an FMM and TIP and was not questioned. He is fluent in Spanish. They let him continue without much discussion. It was not clear to either him nor me whether or not they actually understood the situation/paperwork.

I am also aware first hand of another person who was traveling same direction a few weeks ago and was stopped several times at regular retens with no problems. The last time he was pulled over by a Federal cop just to the west of Monterrey. It took him 30 minutes of discussion about the Returno Seguro, and a phone call to the cop's jefe about it, before the cop he was allowed (with apology) to resume his trip.

YMMV

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I have also heard something about a 90 day grace period from when your permanente is dated before you have to get the car out.

I think that is something Spencer is working on with the Aduana manager.

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Read the post: "Seguro Returno Update".

http://www.chapala.com/webboard/index.php?showtopic=44189

I went to border and back to sell car with no obvious TIP and a Returno Seguro letter and as a Permanent resident. Total from SMA to Laredo and back 8 check points and no one asked why no car permit and never showed letter. I could not sell car and brought it back. It is a 2008 NAFTA vehicle.

I have read where one person had to explain their situation and allowed to proceed to Laredo. I had no insurance as likely will not cover a car deemed illegal by Aduana.

Bottom line is depends how risk adverse you are.

One week ago I paid a local person a deposit. Tomorrow I will have a Mexican title for car and plates from a town in the state of Mexico. Later the pedimento arrives. I am so tired of the issue I will do what it takes to make it go away. i am told our contacts will nationalize 2012 and older NAFTA vehicles with plates and title that arrive by courier in a week.The person I am working through we know him and family personally and been to his house. Cost 21,000 p. This is not the first time he has done this.

There are hundreds of thousands of "chocolates" (illegal cars) in Mexico who could care less. Meanwhile, I know there is a risk but willing to try.

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A question for those of you who have recently driven NOB after receiving your Permanente. Did you have a Returno Seguro? Did anyone ask for it? Do you think it is necessary? I ask because I will be driving back and have a specific date I need to leave on. Who is to say that the 5 day window would correspond to the date I need to cross the border should I get one. They can keep my TIP (will count it as road tax for the time I have. Been here) and I am resigned to the fact that my insurance may not be any good. I will be very careful and have hired someone to travel back with me in case of issues. I just want to get the #%#% J car back to Texas and sold!

"I will be driving back and have a specific date I need to leave on. Who is to say that the 5 day window would correspond to the date I need to cross the border should I get one."

The SAT offices have been asking that we apply 4-5 days before we plan to travel. The SAT offices have taken 4 days to process the application and issue the Retorno Seguro permit. The 5 day count starts the day after you receive the permit. The SAT agents said weekend days do not count as the 5 days. This means you get 7 days in practical terms.

The possibility of $3 million pesos to $5 million pesos damages owed for every person killed in an accident makes me hesitate to count on just careful driving to avoid having insurance deny a claim due to driving without any valid government permit for the vehicle. The car owner is liable, so it doesn't matter if we have someone else drive our car.

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Be aware that not all SAT offices take 4-5 days to process the application. In PV they issue them the same day you apply. As they are dated to start the following day, if you go in 4-5 days before you want to leave, you will either have to come back the day before you want to leave, or leave the following day. Important to check how your local SAT offivce is handling the applications.

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Different SAT offices handle things differently and also depends on your documents, for some we get permits in 1 day, others take 3 to 4 days or they want to inspect vehicles. Some offices are picky about documents and names and if anything does not match perfectly they will reject and make us resubmit. Some offices due to the high volume have changed their rules recently.

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Something is going on here in PV with foreign plated vehicles. I have been noticing cars with foreign plates on the front having a strange plate on the rear. I took a picture of one this morning. A young Mexican was washing the car and I asked him about it. He said the gringos have to get these from City Hall and display them in order to not be hassled by Transito. Huh? A local shakedown or what? Anybody know anything about this program?

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I found the answer to my own question on another board. This was the plate I have seen on a few cars.

"ONAPPAFA "nationalizes" cars for members and non-members (higher price for non-members) in the state of Chihuahua, state which has legislation that allows the registration of vehicles whether or not they are legally in the country; legislation which is not recognized by any other state and much less by the federal government.

They used to have paid Cabo Corrientes' and Mascota's licensing officers, who then unlawfully registered the cars in Jalisco. Many people have found, the hard way, that those "nationalized" cars were not so and they could not even renew the plates once expired; unless they lived in either of those two municipalities, and, assuming that the crooked officers still worked there.

Jalisco's head of licensing and registration told me that the only choice left to the owner of such a vehicle is to take it back to Chihuahua and re-register the car there (yes, I had bought a used car in this condition, with Jalisco plates. Eventually, I got a full refund from the seller).

Last October, the Secretariat of Economy entered into a six month agreement with the state of Chihuahua, permitting the regularization of once foreign-plated cars within the state and without taking the vehicles to the border, providing that those cars met the age, origin and environmental legal requirements for nationalization, in an effort to reduce the vast number of unlicensed cars in the state. The agreement, expired in April, and it was designed exclusively for legal residents of Chihuahua with irregular cars domiciled in that state.

ONAPPAFA also "nationalizes" cars, that do not meet the legal requirements for permanent importation and that are owned by foreigners, by abusing the terms of a Suspensión Provisional (federal temporary injunction aka Amparo) which only covers Mexican citizens who are former residents of the US relocating definitively to Mexico. This temporary injunction does not cover foreign citizens and, as with any temporary injunction, if vacated, all acts performed during the injunction become null and void.

As Tovah mentioned, except there is no controversy, the ONAPPAFA plates, are not recognized inland and you may be pulled over for driving without registration by local, state or federal cops.

Should you decide to go this route, please opt for the higher non-member price. ONAPPAFA, as a civil disobedience entity, is a political organization, foreign members of ONAPPAFA are subject to deportation for participating in Mexican politics."

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Different SAT offices handle things differently and also depends on your documents, for some we get permits in 1 day, others take 3 to 4 days or they want to inspect vehicles. Some offices are picky about documents and names and if anything does not match perfectly they will reject and make us resubmit. Some offices due to the high volume have changed their rules recently.

OMG, this makes no sense. How many offices are there? What decides which office you are processed at?

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"I will be driving back and have a specific date I need to leave on. Who is to say that the 5 day window would correspond to the date I need to cross the border should I get one."

The SAT offices have been asking that we apply 4-5 days before we plan to travel. The SAT offices have taken 4 days to process the application and issue the Retorno Seguro permit. The 5 day count starts the day after you receive the permit. The SAT agents said weekend days do not count as the 5 days. This means you get 7 days in practical terms.

The possibility of $3 million pesos to $5 million pesos damages owed for every person killed in an accident makes me hesitate to count on just careful driving to avoid having insurance deny a claim due to driving without any valid government permit for the vehicle. The car owner is liable, so it doesn't matter if we have someone else drive our car.

The driver is not coming with us for any insurance reasons. I just want to have a person available in the event we have car trouble or need an interpreter.

As far as insurance is concerned my agent is looking into the issues now. If the car is not insured there are only two options. One, drive back and be careful. Two, have the car towed to the border. Will report back later about my personal coverage.

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There are 3 offices and it depends which municipality you live in, FYI toll highways have insurance included in the toll fee.

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For people in Ajijic the story is ever evolving, a daily battle and having the patience of Job. Easy for Americans with a title document, still unclear for Canadians although usually after first being rejected the 2nd time works. Just annoying to do multiple trips, the guy who signs isn't there or out to lunch, people want to keep to their planned trips but the powers that be are not always able to accommodate the same schedules.

My 2nd home is the SAT office, they see me there so much, they all know me, they do have A/C and a comfy couch so I am camped out there alot making calls. I hope to be on the same page with them soon, they are just cautious and scared of the unknown and we are blasting them with requests. I think deep down they are trying but they are so formal and cautious that it gets in the way of what might seem to us common sense while they look at it as protecting the government as well as the governed!

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