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If you now have permanente status, whether by choice or by force and are driving a foreign plated vehicle, not only is that vehicle illegal in Mexico and can be confiscated by the Mexican government at your first stop by any cop, but as an illegal vehicle, your Mexican car insurance is no longer valid. Therefore, should you choose to drive your foreign plated vehicle after becoming permanente, you are not only driving an illegal vehicle that can be taken away in a heartbeat, but you are also driving an uninsured vehicle.

After months and months of folks trying to find a way to nationalize their vehicles without driving them to the border, no one has done this. It is not possible to sell a foreign plated vehicle in Mexico. It must be taken to the border and astronomical fees paid and then we need to hope and pray that it was done legall, as we have no recourse, if it was not done so.

If I am missing something, let me know.

And you all are upset about this and think it is unfair? It is more than unfair, it is an outrage.

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No one was "forced" to go Permanente. If you are RP and have a foreign plated car you can get a trip permit from Aduana so that you can legally drive your car to the border. This is not unfair or an outrage. Inconvenient maybe.

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No one was "forced" to go Permanente. If you are RP and have a foreign plated car you can get a trip permit from Aduana so that you can legally drive your car to the border. This is not unfair or an outrage. Inconvenient maybe.

If you mean at gunpoint, you are right. However, at least in Puerto Vallarta those with a 3 or 4 on their Inmigrante or non-inmigrante visas did not have a choice to remain temporal and that was not something that was clear when the new regs came into force in November. Moreover, people who had FM3s or Non-inmigrante for multiple years, but not on their current documents could remain temporal.

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If you do not have the income requirements under the new law, and your time is due, you are either forced to go permanente or to leave Mexico and come back on contiguous 180 day visas. Not inconvenient at all, but impossible for many of the oldsters here who do not qualify under the new income requirements, cannot afford them and are unable to drive their aging vehicles,cannot physically handle the grueling bus trip every six months and cannot afford to fly. I think forced is the correct word for many of these folks who have lived here a very long time. I am happy to know that in your case, you merely consider it inconvenient. But that is for you. You cannot speak for others. When these oldsters arrived here many years ago, they were welcomed with open arms and they want to live here forever. Now, what do they do?

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As one of those oldsters with limited vision and mobility, and all the rest, this situation has take over our lives. Paradise lost! It is hard to avoid worrying about it every day. We have asked for answers when changes have occurred in previous years and the answers we got from INM have all proved to be false.

Travis makes it sound easy, but I can no longer drive. So, it seems I must coerce my wife into driving it north and getting an amount that might hardly pay for the trip. For those without a second car; a Mexican car, they might have to buy another and bust the budget.

So, Travis, will you pay me book value and guarantee that you will remove it from Mexico and provide me with the sticker receipt? Otherwise, we are being forced to jump through hoops after losing the ability to jump.

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If you drive your vehicle drive cautiously to avoid an accident. As far as I've heard there have been no confiscation of vehicles yet. It will be interesting to see when (if?) they start to. One Ajijic lawyer told me last week to keep driving-no problem so far!

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If you now have permanente status, whether by choice or by force and are driving a foreign plated vehicle, not only is that vehicle illegal in Mexico and can be confiscated by the Mexican government at your first stop by any cop, but as an illegal vehicle, your Mexican car insurance is no longer valid. Therefore, should you choose to drive your foreign plated vehicle after becoming permanente, you are not only driving an illegal vehicle that can be taken away in a heartbeat, but you are also driving an uninsured vehicle.

After months and months of folks trying to find a way to nationalize their vehicles without driving them to the border, no one has done this. It is not possible to sell a foreign plated vehicle in Mexico. It must be taken to the border and astronomical fees paid and then we need to hope and pray that it was done legall, as we have no recourse, if it was not done so.

If I am missing something, let me know.

And you all are upset about this and think it is unfair? It is more than unfair, it is an outrage.

I have pointed out that it can be done here at the airport. We have one in process now. It has been inspected, we are just waiting on the paperwork to work thru. Stay tuned.........

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When these oldsters arrived here many years ago, they were welcomed with open arms and they want to live here forever. Now, what do they do?

There's something I cannot understand. You say they wanted to live here forever . . . Why then have they not applied for permanent residency at the time. By not doing so, it does not show their will of wanting to adopt Mexico as their choice of residence. It suited them to accept to live here under a temporary visa because they could drive their own car. So, they had it good all those years, but they now have to face a new reality, which is the same in most countries. A permanent resident cannot get a car from outside the country without following the rules. Mexico is now tightening up their relaxed policies to blend with its neighbors. Nothing unfair or outrageous about that.

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You folks need to read and re-read RVG's post, as he is exactly the type of person I am talking about. Followed all of the rules, been here 11 years and got up to FM2 and then had the rug pulled out from under him and now, owns a home, is not able to drive to the border and is in poor health and may be forced to leave Mexico.

Travis, an incredibly insensitive reply by any standards.

Seewee, RVG did everything possible to work toward citizenship here, but with the new laws, it was all to no avail and he, as many others, had to go back to square one.

JRM30655 You, my good friend, have pointed out something that has not happened, however much you are pinning your hopes on this. If you can give us proof of ANYONE in the last two years being able to nationalize their foreign plated vehicle without going to a border, please let us know and be able to prove it, Otherwise, Don Quixote, enjoy the windmill ride.

Cedros "ONE Ajijic lawyer told you that it was OK. One Ajijic attorney told me that it was not OK. So where does that leave us? :o

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We have asked for answers when changes have occurred in previous years and the answers we got from INM have all proved to be false.

They were not false, RV, they were misunderstood or misinterpreted. I agree with you on the fact that it is not easy to deal with the bureaucrats in Chapala. They are not well trained and not always knowledgeable. I have had to argue with the young gentleman years ago (who was the smartest there) about something. He refused to accept my application for an FM2 because I had not completed my 5 years of FM3. I kept telling him that there was no place in the law (I stated the articles) that indicated I had to have an FM3 before applying for FM2. I told him that my intention was to become permanent and not live here on an FM3. Finally, he got mad and said that he would send my request, but I would get turned down. You know what? I got my FM2. The morale of the story is: you have to KNOW THE RULES yourself and/or do everything to find out about them.

Even lawyers' sites on the web spread that false belief. I wrote to a few of them and asked them to tell me where it said that you had to be on FM3 for 5 years. I was so damn mad to see that they informed people wrongly. So, that is why I cannot blame the government for the wrong interpretation of the law by a few "important figures" who repeated what others said without checking by themselves. I call them lazy and irresponsible.

I realized that there were too many rumors going around, repeated as if it was the truth. I am always skeptical since that time to trust the word of the street and even others.... I have made a few trips to INM in Guad to find out by myself, searched and have read the law up and down. Of course, understanding the language is the first step. I knocked my head on walls and cursed the young lawyer (my facilitator at the time) to have geared me wrong. But, it was MY mistake and my problem. I was just arriving and did not know anything. As I like to be independent, I started to search and study.

I will answer Herman here. RV is not being kicked out of Mexico. The rules for cars have not changed either. It has always been that permanent residents could not drive a foreign plated-car. RV has a few options. Okay, I know that it's not easy for him, but the government is not to blame. A country cannot consider every individual case and adapt their rules to them. As many, who came here with a certain intention, have now to reconsider their new options. I'm glad things have calmed down since November and more people realize that they can still stay in Mexico with or without their car depending on what choice they make.

I wish you luck RV. I often read your forum and thought you always gave good answers.

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Just a note re: seewee´s comments. It was always the rule that Permanent Residents (Imigrados). could not drive foreign-plated cars, but under the old system you had 5 years on FM2, not 4, to switch to Inmigrado.and even then, you had a choice to remain temporary (go back to FM3). That was the law. .

Then the government changed the law, but, as you recall, it took them from May 2011 until November 2012 to come up with the regulations. It was not clear from the original law how exactly all this would be implemented or even if the new government would start over from square one. . There was no way anyone could do prior research because INM officials really didn´t know. And, by their own admission, during all that time Aduana never gave it any thought either.

For those of us who had to renew early (November or December), especially those who would have been up for our 4th refrendo, we had to, and wanted to, become Residente Permanente, BUT, and I make no apology for this, we thought we would be given a REASONABLE length of time to sort out the car issue. But we were not. Overnight, we were told we had 3 to 5 days to get the car out of the country. Is that unfair? If it isn´t, I don´t know what is. Especially since as non-citizens we are not entitled to participate in politics, so could not make inquiries of elected officials. We were sitting there quietly obeying the laws and, overnight, they came along and treated us like criminals with illegal cars. We were expected to drop everything and drive our cars out immediately as if all these years we had been getting away with something when we were simply obeying the law as it was written. .

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caryeroslib, why do you think they gave such an extreme unmanagable time frame? (several days). what is their bottom line? maybe they think you will abandon the car, go out right away & spend the $$ in mexico, sooner than later? they are aware many people are old here.

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Just a note re: seewee´s comments. It was always the rule that Permanent Residents (Imigrados). could not drive foreign-plated cars, but under the old system you had 5 years on FM2, not 4, to switch to Inmigrado.and even then, you had a choice to remain temporary (go back to FM3). That was the law. .

Then the government changed the law, but, as you recall, it took them from May 2011 until November 2012 to come up with the regulations. It was not clear from the original law how exactly all this would be implemented or even if the new government would start over from square one. . There was no way anyone could do prior research because INM officials really didn´t know. And, by their own admission, during all that time Aduana never gave it any thought either.

For those of us who had to renew early (November or December), especially those who would have been up for our 4th refrendo, we had to, and wanted to, become Residente Permanente, BUT, and I make no apology for this, we thought we would be given a REASONABLE length of time to sort out the car issue. But we were not. Overnight, we were told we had 3 to 5 days to get the car out of the country. Is that unfair? If it isn´t, I don´t know what is. Especially since as non-citizens we are not entitled to participate in politics, so could not make inquiries of elected officials. We were sitting there quietly obeying the laws and, overnight, they came along and treated us like criminals with illegal cars. We were expected to drop everything and drive our cars out immediately as if all these years we had been getting away with something when we were simply obeying the law as it was written. .

For those of us who had to renew early (November or December), especially those who would have been up for our 4th refrendo, we had to, and wanted to, become Residente Permanente,

You say you “had to” and “wanted to” become permanent resident—all of a sudden? Or was it your intention to become permanent before the new law cane into effect in November? If it was, you must have known about the car issue way ahead of the new law. And if it was not you intention, why did you feel obligated to become permanent? You can still acquire temporary residency and keep your car. I don’t see where the problem is.

It’s not that you have been getting away with something illegal. I know it was allowed and very convenient and accommodating. As far as I know, Mexico is the only country in NA that allows that status “temporary residency” with the right to drive a foreign plated-car. You should wonder if that privilege might be removed one day. The way Mexico is going right now with the new President, things roll at high speed.

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Damn I'm tired of being called "insensitive" on this topic. Guess what??? We have to get rid of a (good) car, too!!! And we're not rich and I don't want to do it and it's the perfect second car and I don't know quite how we're going to get it out of our universe, either.

When we moved here five years ago with every intention of staying "forever", I seriously researched the "bring it or don't" foreign-plated car issue. Very seriously. I did my homework. This is not a new issue! Knowing the car was built in Japan and that I could probably never nationalize it, I very much debated whether or not I should dump the car (sell it or gift it to my brother) or bring it down. I finally decided to bring it down as the car was bought new, had low mileage, and was so reliable. So I said, "Let's see how long this lasts...", all the while knowing I was driving it through a VERY GENEROUS LOOPHOLE provided by the loose customs regulations of Mexico, and that ultimately I might get called on it, and that things might change.

Evidently, time's up. And this is the year we have to face that change.

What I find most interesting is this: You know how there are all these "wise", Mexico old-timers on these foro who advise newbies considering moving to Mexico and say things like, "Well, you really need to be able to roll with the punches"....."you gotta retain a sense of humor".....and ...."you have to be ready for changes, 'cause they'll throw 'em at you".

Where are they now? Especially the ones who've been living here PERMANENTLY with foreign plates for years and years?

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Travis makes it sound easy, but I can no longer drive. So, it seems I must coerce my wife into driving it north and getting an amount that might hardly pay for the trip. For those without a second car; a Mexican car, they might have to buy another and bust the budget.

So, Travis, will you pay me book value and guarantee that you will remove it from Mexico and provide me with the sticker receipt? Otherwise, we are being forced to jump through hoops after losing the ability to jump.

I'm going to reply to this specifically so as not to appear too insensitive.

Of course I don't want to buy your car or drive it north. I don't want to drive ours north either. FWIW, I believe a cottage industry is forming wherein people will take it there for you, then re-sell it. Of course they won't pay "book value" or anywhere near it, but they'll take the problem off your hands so you won't have to "worry about it every day". I've already been contacted by someone who sounds willing to do it. And our car was built in 1994.

That's, right. Not a typo. 1994.

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From where I sit, I wouldn't describe it as an outrage. I have been raised in western culture where planning ahead is a core value. It's fundamental to the way I think. Sure, I tell myself this is Mexico and they don't think this way, but I still do and likely always will, because that is the way I was trained. So Mexico makes changes, and implements them poorly, and these changes effect the away I have mapped it out for myself. That puts me on a collision course. Dang, it can be frustrating.

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You can obtain valid insurance to drive the "illegal" vehicle out of Mexico. Just be specific and have it in writing from the Insurance company. I know of someone who did exactly that.

You can hire a driver to go with you to the border or all the way to the states so you can sell your car. There are expats who do this often and there are several Mexican taxi drivers and tour guides that do this as well. You just pay for their bus ticket back and for their time. Its actually very reasonable. Some expats just might like to go with you for the free ride, and they can drive!

It is doable and many people are coping without driving themselves batty. There just is no benefit to getting angry over this. Write to your US or Canadian consulate and register your complaint and then lit it go.

I think of both of my parents and all of my Aunts and Uncles who had to give up driving in Canada. If you are having trouble driving now, maybe its a good time to quit and use the proceeds you get from your car for taxi rides. One hundred dollars a month would be a lot of taxi rides. You can go on the LCS bus to all the malls and Costco. Tours with Charter Club. Car pool with friends and help with lunch or gas once in a while. No car repairs, no insurance, no tickets or mordida. Maybe a more simple, stress free life.

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<

JRM30655 You, my good friend, have pointed out something that has not happened, however much you are pinning your hopes on this. If you can give us proof of ANYONE in the last two years being able to nationalize their foreign plated vehicle without going to a border, please let us know and be able to prove it, Otherwise, Don Quixote, enjoy the windmill ride.>

I personally know people who have done this and are doing it NOW.

I pity anyone who is too lazy to drive over to the airport and check with customs and the brokers to see how to go about this.

I told you where to go on the airport and even who is the largest broker. There's a whole line of brokers over there, ask any of them. These are companies with worldwide operations who give itemized bills and signed receipts. They are not going to jeopardize their operations over a few thousand dollars.

Personally, I don't understand the complaining. The law has changed. Laws change worldwide daily. Get over it....

I see people threatening to sell out and move. They are going to spend $20,000 to sell a house and move over a $3000 problem? Get real...

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I keep hearing about new laws. What new laws? has anyone seen them...chapter, verse, article X, section Y? I read somewhere here that new laws had been written but not "published". If so they have not been implemented yet. Maybe I am wrong and if I am please tell me and quote the law that says "it is illegal for someone with a permanent visa to drive a foreign plated car with a sticker on the windshield"...chapter and verse. I asked before if anyone personally knew of someone having their car confiscated for this "crime" (not from your gardeners uncles friend) and so far silence.The only time this has happened as far as i can tell is some poor sap taking forged documents (unknown to him) to get his new "registration". As reported in the Reporter this week there are tons of weasels benefiting from perpetrating this confusion and I refuse to buy into it. Would you not think that the police chief or top law enforcement in this this municipality would have come out and clarified this "new law" after so much hoopla here. Yes, I am permanent and drive an old foreign plated truck, and until someone convinces me otherwise i will keep driving,,,and keep a 500 peso note among my papers just in case..."when in Rome....". In the worst case they can have my truck...it's worth less than $1,000 anyway. And please, all you self righteous blatherers out there, just move on to the next post.

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keep hearing about new laws. What new laws? has anyone seen them...chapter, verse, article X, section Y? I read somewhere here that new laws had been written but not "published". If so they have not been implemented yet. Maybe I am wrong and if I am please tell me and quote the law that says "it is illegal for someone with a permanent visa to drive a foreign plated car with a sticker on the windshield"...chapter and verse. I asked before if anyone personally knew of someone having their car confiscated for this "crime" (not from your gardeners uncles friend) and so far silence.The only time this has happened as far as i can tell is some poor sap taking forged documents (unknown to him) to get his new "registration". As reported in the Reporter this week there are tons of weasels benefiting from perpetrating this confusion and I refuse to buy into it. Would you not think that the police chief or top law enforcement in this this municipality would have come out and clarified this "new law" after so much hoopla here. Yes, I am permanent and drive an old foreign plated truck, and until someone convinces me otherwise i will keep driving,,,and keep a 500 peso note among my papers just in case..."when in Rome....". In the worst case they can have my truck...it's worth less than $1,000 anyway. And please, all you self righteous blatherers out there, just move on to the next post.

The law/rules are published. The new semantics are now published on the SEGOB INM website posted below in clear format to as what a Residente Permanente IS now and was before the 2011 Ley de Migracion. The term Inmigrado is NOW Residente Permanente. The term Inmigrante or no Inmigrante Renista is Now Residente Temporal Rentista.

ADUANA follows the NAFTA Agreement signed by Mexico, USA and Canada when it comes to allowable vehicle able to be nationalized in Mexico. This is simple to understand if you "want" to.

Residente Temporal Rentistas can have valid TIPs and own foreign plated vehicles. Inmigrados, are now Residente Permanentes and cannot.

Equivalencia status migratorio LGP-LM:

Artículo SEXTO transitorio LM (Regla básica):

http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/marco_juridico/pdf/Presentacion_generalidades_Ley_Migracion.pdf

SAT ADUANA TIP rules:

http://www.aduanas.sat.gob.mx/aduana_mexico/2008/vehiculos/141_11214.html

"Documentos necesarios para comprobar la calidad migratoria

Para extranjeros

Original y copia de su identificación oficial vigente la cual puede ser:

  • Pasaporte.
  • Passport Card
  • La documentación expedida por el Instituto Nacional de Migración que acredite su calidad migratoria autorizada para el trámite."

Documents required to check immigration status

For foreigners

Original and copy of their official identification which can be:

◾ Passport.

◾ Passport Card

◾ The documentation issued by the National Migration Institute [iNM] stating their immigration authority to the [be allowed to use the ] process .[qualifying for a TIP] "

  • AVISO:

Le sugerimos visitar el portal del link.gif Instituto Nacional de Migración para concocer las formas en que puede ingresar al país, ya que el pasado 25 de mayo de 2011 se publicó en el Diario Oficial de la Federación la Ley de Migración, la cual contiene nuevas disposiciones para el ingreso de visitantes a territorio nacional.

Antes de realizar su visita a México, infórmese."

WARNING:

"We suggest you visit the website of the link to an external site INM to concoct the ways in which you can enter the country, since last May 25, 2011 was published in the Official Journal of the Federation the Migration Act, the which contains new provisions for the entry of visitors to the country.

Before your visit to Mexico, learn."

These websites have all been updated to reflect the new terminology and there might never be a new ADUANA law written to cover anything new under the sun as all that has changed is the semantics of a few terms, nothing else as far as ADUANA is concerned.

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seewee you say "The rules for cars have not changed either. It has always been that permanent residents could not drive a foreign plated-car." I thought those who had a non working FM2 could drive a foreign plarted vehicle.

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I keep hearing about new laws. What new laws? has anyone seen them...chapter, verse, article X, section Y? I read somewhere here that new laws had been written but not "published". If so they have not been implemented yet. Maybe I am wrong and if I am please tell me and quote the law that says "it is illegal for someone with a permanent visa to drive a foreign plated car with a sticker on the windshield"...chapter and verse. I asked before if anyone personally knew of someone having their car confiscated for this "crime" (not from your gardeners uncles friend) and so far silence.The only time this has happened as far as i can tell is some poor sap taking forged documents (unknown to him) to get his new "registration". As reported in the Reporter this week there are tons of weasels benefiting from perpetrating this confusion and I refuse to buy into it. Would you not think that the police chief or top law enforcement in this this municipality would have come out and clarified this "new law" after so much hoopla here. Yes, I am permanent and drive an old foreign plated truck, and until someone convinces me otherwise i will keep driving,,,and keep a 500 peso note among my papers just in case..."when in Rome....". In the worst case they can have my truck...it's worth less than $1,000 anyway. And please, all you self righteous blatherers out there, just move on to the next post.

Actually, there is a law. It basically says that your TIP is current as long as you have a current FM2/3. If you let them run out, the TIP is VOID!!!

When you apply for a Permanente or Temporal, your FM2/3 runs out.

From my reading, if you get a Temporal or a Permanente then your TIP is no longer good.

The only way that I see out of this "gray area" is to drive a MX plated car.

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As one of those oldsters with limited vision and mobility, and all the rest, this situation has take over our lives. Paradise lost! It is hard to avoid worrying about it every day. We have asked for answers when changes have occurred in previous years and the answers we got from INM have all proved to be false.

Travis makes it sound easy, but I can no longer drive. So, it seems I must coerce my wife into driving it north and getting an amount that might hardly pay for the trip. For those without a second car; a Mexican car, they might have to buy another and bust the budget.

So, Travis, will you pay me book value and guarantee that you will remove it from Mexico and provide me with the sticker receipt? Otherwise, we are being forced to jump through hoops after losing the ability to jump.

Sorry, but I'm not understanding this. You say ''I must coerce my wife into driving it north and getting an amount that might hardly pay for the trip''. So I'm assuming the car is worth less than 2 or 3 grand. So why not just park it here and throw away the keys and buy a MX car? Would you be spending all this time fretting if your $2,000 car was stolen? What's the difference, really?

Am I missing something?

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