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Meeting with SAT (Tax agency jefe) re Foreign plated cars

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So I would like to tell you all and make public some information you all might find useful as well as be able to know that we are working towards a solution to the whole foreign plated car mess.

I have had various meetings with SAT, the Mexican IRS and tax agency about doing the retorno seguro. We have done some without issue, however, they are used to getting one request every two weeks, not one a day from us and also others in Guadalajara have been using the process for stolen cars.

We turned in a request yesterday and they halted the process due to suspicion of getting so many requests, relatively for them. I called and talked to the guy and explained to him why and he said nothing new has been published in the DOF and I said Mexico City has given us written resolutions not allowing residente permanentes extensions on their vehicle permits and emailed them the resolution. Then the guy started to understand. He also said what the government wasn't doing wasn't fair and we should fight it, I said sure but who will pay and who has time? We need to pick our fights as many clients cannot afford protracted litigation, especially when there is an easier and cheaper option.

Today I met with the jefe, a wonderful gentleman who was extremely nice and very willing to help, to the extreme that he will help us prosecute the bad guys who have given fake documents with the full force of the Mexican federal government (the tax man knows everything and has more access to all people's records) as well as he has placed on the Federal Aduana Agenda a proposal to allow permanentes 90 days after receiving their cards to leave Mexico to eliminate the need for retorno seguro, we are still working on this and he has spoken to the office in Mexico and we are not sure if they would approve this and publish a decree nor how long it will take.

I will continue to work with SAT to get the job done. Due to the recent fraud they want to physically see and inspect all vehicles. I mentioned that many of my clients are elderly as well as we have the issue of driving a vehicle with no papers to the site to make it legal. I am working out a plan where we will still present papers in Guadalajara but they will send an inspector to the Chapala area 2 days a week to do the verifications so as not to inconvenience people. Also they will get authorization from the other tax office heads to do the vehicle verification for them so that nobody will need to bring their cars into Guadalajara and we can bring the initial papers to Guadalajara and then finish the process locally.

We also chatted about the donation of vehicles to the Mexican government. We spoke with SAT / Aduana in Mexico City and they said people can only donate vehicles prior to the expiration of their permit, this really helps few people. I am working with the jefe to change this and will present a proposal to him to present to the head aduana office in Mexico City where people will be able to donate vehicles as well as have the benefit go to a local charity for the benefit of the local community notwithstanding the fact that the vehicle permit has expired. This fine gentleman sees things our way and understands the issues as well as the law and we had a great chat and soon (remember this is Mexico) we hope to be able to lessen the burden on foreigners with their vehicles.

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Thanks as always Spencer, it's good to know we're not alone.

And forgive me for the following, but (the tax man knows everything and has more access to all people's records) made me laugh with the current headlines NOB.

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Aren't any other options being looked at? Like allowing people to import their venicles easily or extending the TIPs-maybe forever, or?

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Once again, thank you Spencer for your proactive stance on our behalf. It helps just knowing that someone recognizes the difficulties this is causing so many of us who want to do the right thing. I appreciate all that you do.

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As I've noted previously, the solution to this problem only requires that Permanente be treated as Immigrado was before, namely as an OPTION for those already resident. Article 106 seems to cover Temporal. So if we simply had the option in country to apply for Temporal the same way we used to renew our FM2/3, this whole problem goes away.

Practically speaking, for many people here who have lived here for a while and who do not routinely go to the border, leaving one's home and going back up north for an indefinite period to apply for and await a new Temporal is really not a reasonable option to having to go Permanente after four years. We need to be able to renew Temporal here.

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I would suggest that those going to Residente Permanente be allowed to permanently import their vehicle without duty or taxation beyond IVA, no matter the country of origin or age, and that the state of residence be instructed to register the vehcle at normal fees. This would only apply to vehicles temporarily imported before the new rules were implemented, or even to vehicles which may have been imported some number of years earlier and/or those that have not left Mexico in a specified number of years.

That would be fair for those who are now forced to change to Permanente status.

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I would suggest that those going to Residente Permanente be allowed to permanently import their vehicle without duty or taxation beyond IVA, no matter the country of origin or age, and that the state of residence be instructed to register the vehcle at normal fees. This would only apply to vehicles temporarily imported before the new rules were implemented, or even to vehicles which may have been imported some number of years earlier and/or those that have not left Mexico in a specified number of years.

That would be fair for those who are now forced to change to Permanente status.

Hear, hear!!

This seems like a reasonable and fair solution. Why does no one talk about it.

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Spencer, you are a gem of a human being. Three cheers for you and the work you do!

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time is running out for folks -- i'm driving north soon, before i need to submit paper work to become permanente..... once i sell the car... the grandfathering won't help me. Mexico will move to slow for me.

i do appreciate Spenser's effort to help those that have already gone P. and still have their foreign plated vehicles to dispose of.

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Spencer, you are a gem of a human being. Three cheers for you and the work you do!

Almost what I was going to post, More Liana, about Spencer. I'll now go with jewel of a dude for all your help!

Muchas gracias!

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Good for you Intercasa.

We can only do what we can, but it is great people are trying on so many fronts to solve this problem.

As Canadian citizens, and current tax-paying residents of Canada, my husband and I wrote to our Canadian MP (federal representative).last week, asking for him to ask the Secretario (elected official) who is in charge of SAT/Aduana to find out what is going on and let us know through the Canadian External Relations Website.

I personally don´t hold out much hope that when we return to Mexico in July we won´t be stuck with buying a Mexican-plated SUV for a big price-tag. (Our current vehicle was built in Japan). But I will never donate this vehicle to my local Aduana. Never. Bunch of crooks. I can easily make it scrap metal. RIP beloved friend. Rot in hell Puerto Vallarta Aduana.

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Thank you for your efforts Spencer. We will be legal until about November, with any luck maybe by then you will have managed to convince the powers that be that there must be a mutually benifical way to settle the issue of foreign plated cars.

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Getting someone to inspect cars locally would be a tremendous help.

My buddy went Monday to get his inspection. Appearantly, there is only one place and it is on the other side of Guad. He arrived at 7:15, it opens at 8:00 and starts operating about 8:30-9:00.

There were probably 150 cars there to be inspected. It seems that if you bring a car here from another state it has to be inspected before Jalisco will plate it. Most were MX cars, a few Gringo cars. He finally got finished about 3:30.

No one there spoke any English.

There were several Gringo plated cars where the paperwork had been forged and they had been impounded and were sitting in the impound portion.

This seems to be the biggest PITA of the whole thing.

Now, we are just waiting on all the rest of the paperwork to work thru the system.

When we started this, the broker told us that normally, he did 1 or 2 a month, now he was flooded and so was customs. He thought that it would take 4-6 weeks for everything to clear.

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Wow what a giant step forward on all this.

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The inspection I am speaking about is for the retorno seguro, not for getting Jalisco plates, these are 2 separate items. Changing plates will still involve getting in line early and being there for hours in a land far, far away.

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For the Retorno Seguro document.... how much time will be needed to obtain one now. We will be taking our Canadian plated vehicle out of the country around June 7th or 8th. Is one week enough time, prior, to apply? I will be using chapalalegal.

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We prefer a 2 to 3 days lead time to make sure all works well and we have time to present documents and they can inspect the vehicle.

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They need to inspect my car that they claim is illegal now because I needed to get a permaneta visa so I can take it to the boarder and maybe they will pass something for a 90 days to remove this illegal item from Mex. by the time they get around to doing that I will be illegal again because I have had my permanenta for about 2 months now . This thing gets more comical by the day

What a frecken joke!

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On top of everything this INM mess is creating, now we find out that Jalisco will not accept copies of a current FM3 so one can renew a driver's license, they want to see the original, which, of course, our INM friends took months ago for getting the Permanente. So no DL either.

I agree, this is a complete screw up on the part of INM and Aduana and people are leaving because of it. So Spencer, you can add this one on top of all the other stuff you are talking with them about.

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Certified copies are accepted, spend the 50 pesos or else wait.

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Spencer, I have been lurking on this site for months looking for a solution to the vehicle problem. I beg you to bring up the hardship this fiasco is causing on expats who are elderly and cannot drive their vehicle out of Mexico. I have a J vehicle that cannot be imported and am physically unable to make the trip to the Texas border. My vehicle is so old, it might not make the trip. Breaking down in an unsafe area of the country is not something I am willing to risk.

I cannot afford to buy another vehicle while my current car sits parked on my property. I have no choice but to continue driving illegally, which has greatly affected my peace of mind and my dream for a tranquil life in Mexico.

As a matter of fairness, I keep hoping Mexican officials will find a solution, such as taxing us each year to keep our TIP vehicles.

Please keep these situations in mind when speaking to officials about these problems. Thank you for your regular advise and comments.

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Agreed, spencer is invaluable with his free information to all

Regarding Japanese Cars- Expats are banging your heads against the wall of NAFTA-

You are asking the Impossible - don't think Aduana or any other agency of the government can opt to change this without a Federal Act of Congress

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Agreed, spencer is invaluable with his free information to all

Regarding Japanese Cars- Expats are banging your heads against the wall of NAFTA-

You are asking the Impossible - don't think Aduana or any other agency of the government can opt to change this without a Federal Act of Congress

It´s not a federal act of congress. It is the NAFTA Agreement and Mexico, Canada and the US would have vote to ratify the Agreement to change it. SAT ADUANA have no choice other than to abide by it.

"Used vehicles that can be imported into Mexico under NAFTA:

From Annex 300-A of the North American Free Trade Agreement:

"24. Mexico may adopt or maintain prohibitions or restrictions on imports of used vehicles from the territory of another Party, except as follows:

(a) beginning January 1, 2009, Mexico may not adopt or maintain a prohibition or restriction on imports from the territories of Canada or the United States of originating used vehicles that are at least 10 years old;

beginning January 1, 2011, Mexico may not adopt or maintain a prohibition or restriction on imports from the territories of Canada or the United States of originating used vehicles that are at least eight years old;

[c] beginning January 1, 2013, Mexico may not adopt or maintain a prohibition or restriction on imports from the territories of Canada or the United States of originating used vehicles that are at least six years old;

(d) beginning January 1, 2015, Mexico may not adopt or maintain a prohibition or restriction on imports from the territories of Canada or the United States of originating used vehicles that are at least four years old;

[e] beginning January 1, 2017, Mexico may not adopt or maintain a prohibition or restriction on imports from the territories of Canada or the United States of originating used vehicles that are at least two years old; and

(f) beginning January 1, 2019, Mexico may not adopt or maintain a prohibition or restriction on imports from the territories of Canada or the United States of originating used vehicles."

The Annex also includes some very technical aspects of the Agreement regarding New Vehicles as well as Used Vehicles."

Here is a link to the actual Annex 300-A

http://www.sice.oas.org/trade/nafta/anx300a1.asp"

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