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What's the difference between importing and nationalizing a NOB car?


J.Miller

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Is it just me or is anyone else Lakeside baffled by the ins and outs of legalizing a car here? I have asked this question before but still can't seem to get a concensus and the more I read about fake papers and stolen plates the more I am feeling stressed over a situation that I don't completely understand. .

My van is a 2009 which we bought in Canada two years ago with the intention of driving it into the dust. We do not have the budget to replace it with a Mexican car and will have to rely on buses and taxis if we cannot manage to get it legalized in Mexico. I am willing to take it to the border and jump through all of the appropriate hoops so that I can drive it here without worry but I have no clue regarding the process or even the import/nationalize eligibility of my car.

I am heading north of the boarder in about ten days and when I return a couple of months later, I would gladly go through the process of legalize the vehicle if only I knew how to do that. In past years I have spent hours and paid hundreds of dollars to the shysters who line the streets of Neuvo Laredo beating their chests and declaring their intent to "help their amigo" (me) and frankly, though I did feel ripped off I was only too happy to have someone walk us through the process of acquiring a temporary importation document. However, I am not willing to involve the guy on the street to help me legalize my car.

Since it is apparent, according to other current threads on this board, that I cannot simply trust a lawyer to act honestly on my behalf, who exactly do I trust at the border to help me arrange for the proper documentation?

If the powers that be would stop yanking our chains for just long enough to explain what they want and how to achieve it, I think that there are probably many law abiding folkes like myself who would be happy to oblige. Until recently I have loved living in Mexico but now it seems like one new anxiety ridden, chaotic, half baked rule change after the other. I am not ready to throw in the towel yet and I am generally pretty easy going and feel that in time things will work out but I have to admit that though my car is legal for the moment, I am dreading the drive north with my foreign plates.

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On Mexconnect you'll find a list of reputable Customs Brokers at the border. Choose one and contact them. However, I think your van is not old enough to nationalize. Perhaps you need to stay Residente Temporal for a few years.

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Just renew your Temporal as long as you can. In two years, the van might be importable. It is too new to import now. Unless you're a Mexican who knows who to pay off, that is. I see them hauling near new cars to the border every time I go north.

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As I said in another post...it seems like NOBODY KNOWS NUTHIN' about this US vs Mexican car plating thing. In a post a while back someone said they called Aduanas in Guadalajara and spoke to a supervisor...even giving her name and phone number...and she said that there were no such laws in effect now only being considered. Another recent poster said "Until the rules are published, no one knows". So why are we all running around like chickens with no heads? I have seen no one post any published new laws regarding this. There are a lot of people who are advising many different things, and maybe taking advantage of all the uncertainty, but is any of this real? Can any one state for certain that they know first hand (not from your gardeners wife's brother-in-law) that anyone has been arrested and their vehicle impounded for this "violation"?, I have also heard that since nothing is in stone yet, there still might be a chance that they are considering some "Grandfathering" for folks who were operating legally under the old laws. Let's calm down here and get all the facts before we make rash moves that cost a lot of money unnecessarily.

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Gringohombre,

The one problem we have is that here in MX, the guy standing in front of you IS the law and it's whatever he wants it to be at the time you're stopped, making for some sticky situations.

Logic (yes, I know?) dictates the new Permanente is the old FM2 and you couldn't drive a NOB plate, so that old law still applies. The two counter acting forces are some folks either not aware, or trying to stretch their old privileges hoping for a definitive law and the police community who are trigger happy by enforcing what they believe the law to be.

One thing is patently clear, the "Mexican banditos of old" are still with us, only now they have offices and wear suites.

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Not quite. Aduana is equating the new Permanente with the old Immigrado. You could drive a U.S. or Canadian plated car with the FM2 if you were not employed. The big difference here between Permanente and the old Immigrado was that the latter was not mandatory after a set period of time, it was voluntary. Hence, you could go on FM2/3 until you could deal with the car issue without incurring a lot of financial loss and having to do so under a duress of time.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain the legal basis for applying old regulations to new laws without specific legislative authority to do so. Seems to me that Aduana has done just that.

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As I said in another post...it seems like NOBODY KNOWS NUTHIN' about this US vs Mexican car plating thing. In a post a while back someone said they called Aduanas in Guadalajara and spoke to a supervisor...even giving her name and phone number...and she said that there were no such laws in effect now only being considered. Another recent poster said "Until the rules are published, no one knows". So why are we all running around like chickens with no heads? I have seen no one post any published new laws regarding this. There are a lot of people who are advising many different things, and maybe taking advantage of all the uncertainty, but is any of this real? Can any one state for certain that they know first hand (not from your gardeners wife's brother-in-law) that anyone has been arrested and their vehicle impounded for this "violation"?, I have also heard that since nothing is in stone yet, there still might be a chance that they are considering some "Grandfathering" for folks who were operating legally under the old laws. Let's calm down here and get all the facts before we make rash moves that cost a lot of money unnecessarily.

There are lots of knowledgeable people who read the ADUANA rules still in effect. It is just that some people do not want to find out [lazy] or worse do not want to believe them and make a trip to the border when getting Residente Permanente status and removing their ineligible vehicle or nationalize an allowed NAFTA built vehicle between 1984 and 2007 when getting a safe return, turning in their expired TIP and paying a reputable licensed broker to nationalize their vehicle confirmed multiple times at Nogales, Mexicali and Laredo, Laredo costing up to double because the reputable brokers charge a much higher fee to do the work, for whatever reason.

Then there are those that want to stay safe at home and believe in some scam that it can be done in Jalisco, Estado de Mexico or Mexico City and pay much more and find out they got scammed. Take your pick who to believe in. The SAT ADUANA website or some scammer who tells you what you want to hear. Simple.

It still might be able to be done at the Guadalajara airport but yet is unconfirmed for sure.

It has been done at the port of Progreso near Merida with allowable NAFTA built vehicles 8 and 9 years old and confirmed.

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Sorry, my confusion is apparent? However regarding wanting to "see" the new regs, good luck, I'll stick with my statement regarding the guy in front of you IS the law at that moment in time. It is a bit disconcerting to have to argue the law with a law officer and even in some cases educate them regarding their own laws, but then again this is Mexico.

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I believe that Spencer has recently posted that he received written notification from Aduana in Guadalajara for one of his clients that those with Permanente status may not drive a foreign plated car. As a result of this, Spencer has strongly recommended that those with Permanente status not drive foreign plated vehicles. If some of you, like "gringohombre" choose to ignore Spencer's advice that's all well and good but you have no business urging others to do so. Just my opinion.

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No one is "forced" to go Permanente, it's simply no longer possible to be purpetually "Temporal" without leaving the country after your 4 years are up. Immigration laws have changed. Aduana's have not. Inmigrado is the new "Residente Permante," and their meaning is the same. A permanent resident CANNOT have a foreign-plated car, PERIOD. Never could, still can't. No change.

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Not quite. Aduana is equating the new Permanente with the old Immigrado. You could drive a U.S. or Canadian plated car with the FM2 if you were not employed. The big difference here between Permanente and the old Immigrado was that the latter was not mandatory after a set period of time, it was voluntary. Hence, you could go on FM2/3 until you could deal with the car issue without incurring a lot of financial loss and having to do so under a duress of time.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain the legal basis for applying old regulations to new laws without specific legislative authority to do so. Seems to me that Aduana has done just that.

ADUANA has confirmed that a Residente Permanente visa has no classification Rentista and is treated the same as the old sematics term Inmigrado and did not allow TIPs for foreign plated vehicles then and now they must be removed from Mexico or if allowed must be nationalized at the border.

They do allow Residente Temporal visa holders TIPs, first timers and previous Rentista to renew their existing TIP even if it over the 15 day notification limit to ADUANA in writing when your previous visa, tied to that TIP has expired and sometimes over the 45 day limit with no fine, depending of where and when.

It is unconfirmed if after the 45 day limit you will receive your deposit back or not when turning it in at the border to nationalize or remove a vehicle.

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I believe that Spencer has recently posted that he received written notification from Aduana in Guadalajara for one of his clients that those with Permanente status may not drive a foreign plated car. As a result of this, Spencer has strongly recommended that those with Permanente status not drive foreign plated vehicles. If some of you, like "gringohombre" choose to ignore Spencer's advice that's all well and good but you have no business urging others to do so. Just my opinion.

That isn't correct.

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Spencer has also given a solution get a 5 day permit to drive the car back to the border if you have become Permanente and need to get the car out of the country. There always is the possibility to remove the car from Mexico and figure out the nex t stepwhile the car is safely out of here..

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See what I mean? I still say NOBODY KNOWS NUTHIN' and no, I an not advising anyone to do anything regarding this because i t know nuthin' either. We are all adults here. For example AlanMexical posts (partial) " make a trip to the border when getting Residente Permanente status and removing their ineligible vehicle or nationalize an allowed NAFTA built vehicle between 1984 and 2007 when getting a safe return". I happen to have a 1979 Ford F250 pickup (runs good) so I am not within those 1984 to 2007 boundaries. What does this mean for me? Very confusing.

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That isn't correct.

cedros. Why did you say that I wasn't correct when I posted this.

I believe that Spencer has recently posted that he received written notification from Aduana in Guadalajara for one of his clients that those with Permanente status may not drive a foreign plated car. As a result of this, Spencer has strongly recommended that those with Permanente status not drive foreign plated vehicles. If some of you, like "gringohombre" choose to ignore Spencer's advice that's all well and good but you have no business urging others to do so. Just my opinion.

If you are going to wrongly challange the accuracy of someone's statement, you should be less confrontational about how you do so.

See the post from Spencer below:

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:16 PM

Well the car issue has been a hot topic for many people. Just right now we received a response to the vehicle notifications we do for residente permanente where they rejected the persons right to keep their vehicle and said as it was equivalent to inmigrado before and it is for being permanently in Mexico and the vehicle importation is temporary that the person cannot have their vehicle here and must use the retorno seguro to remove it. I have scanned the relevant page we received today. I would advise all residente permanente people to immediately NOT drive their vehicles due to Aduanas oral policy now being in writing, even though it remains a gray area of law to prevent impounding of vehicles in the event of a traffic stop or accident where it may be a hassle to get the vehicle back.

http://www.chapalala... Permanente.pdf

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After another sleepless night, I am still as confused as when I posted this question; I still do not know the difference between importation and nationalization and for the life of me, I can't imagine how a law that isn't can be enforced, or what "authority" to contact regarding the matter.

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After another sleepless night, I am still as confused as when I posted this question; I still do not know the difference between importation and nationalization and for the life of me, I can't imagine how a law that isn't can be enforced, or what "authority" to contact regarding the matter.

IMPORTATION: Generally, we mean temporary importation (Importada Temporal) of a vehicle by a visitor or temporary resident in Mexico. A visiting tourist may do this, but may not leave Mexico without the vehicle. A temporary resident may come and go, with or without the vehicle, so long as his visa is current. In either case, a fee is paid upon entry of the vehicle, as well as a deposit of between $200 and $400 USD, depending upon the age of the vehicle. Thes vehicles remain registered in their home country.

NATIONALIZATION: This amounts to permanent importation of the vehicle into Mexico. It is not practical for individuals to do this, and it can be very expensive. Only NAFTA produced vehicles of a certain age are eligible.

If one is to live in Mexico, it is much less trouble to buy and maintain a vehicle in Mexico. It can be driven north with fewer complications as well.

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See what I mean? I still say NOBODY KNOWS NUTHIN' and no, I an not advising anyone to do anything regarding this because i t know nuthin' either. We are all adults here. For example AlanMexical posts (partial) " make a trip to the border when getting Residente Permanente status and removing their ineligible vehicle or nationalize an allowed NAFTA built vehicle between 1984 and 2007 when getting a safe return". I happen to have a 1979 Ford F250 pickup (runs good) so I am not within those 1984 to 2007 boundaries. What does this mean for me? Very confusing.

It means if your Ford pickup is not a dually truck you have to pay more to nationalize it at the border because it is under the classification of "classic vehicle" [under 1984 NAFTA built and eligible vehicles] and the duty will still be 10% , I think but didn´t asked when in the importer´s office in Jan.and again in Feb., but the value will be higher per the ADUANA current value chart. If it is a dually truck then it is ineligible [6 bolts per wheel]

Here is the ADUANA chart, not all eligible vehicle are listed and values in USD:

http://www.aduanas-mexico.com.mx/claa/ctar/leyes/mec_precios_estimados.html#ane2

You could get a quote from an importer if not a dually and it might not have much value, who knows? I can check the SAT ADUANA website and get back to you on the duty %.

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I am looking on the situation from outside. We come down only for winter months on visitors visa therefore not affected by any of this....but it seems to me that there are not any new rules..... like anywhere else in the world if you apply for permanent residency (anywhere) you cannot drive foreign plated plate .....so why people would think that they can do it in Mexico? What happened here is that people rushed into a" permanente" without thinking it through. In the past when people who applied for immigrado (old term) knew this.

So, stay temporal and that gives you plenty of time to deal with the situation. (That is what most of peoples status were before...FM2/3?) Maybe people thought that Aduana will give people long enough grace period to deal with the car situation ?. Other than that it is clear that....you go Permanente ...you cannot drive with NOB plates. That is not a new rule it was always there..It just have a slightly different name. Sadly, now the crooks (including police) will take an advantage of this "permanente" fiasco .There is so much dishonesty and scams which will affect the vulnerable ,uninformed and trusting

Sorry OP .

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See what I mean? I still say NOBODY KNOWS NUTHIN' and no, I an not advising anyone to do anything regarding this because i t know nuthin' either. We are all adults here. For example AlanMexical posts (partial) " make a trip to the border when getting Residente Permanente status and removing their ineligible vehicle or nationalize an allowed NAFTA built vehicle between 1984 and 2007 when getting a safe return". I happen to have a 1979 Ford F250 pickup (runs good) so I am not within those 1984 to 2007 boundaries. What does this mean for me? Very confusing.

Here is something to consider. http://www.importaciondeautos.com/#

This reputable broker in Nuevo Laredo has a source with an AMPARO to nationalize NAFTA built vehicles from 1950 to 2007. He has successfully nationalized several Expats cars in the ADUANA´s latest year time frame of vehicles allowed by all brokers on the border which is 1984 to 2007. He states the fee is $250.00 US up front no matter the year if allowed and charges $60.00 US for the ADUANA´s 15 day temporary transit permit.

Quote from his site: "¿Puedo sacar placas de un vehiculo amparado en cualquier estado de la Republica Mexicana?

No, los estados que no dan placas a los vehiculos amparados son el D.F., Estado de Mexico, Queretaro, Puebla, Morelos e Hidalgo. Lo que puede hacer es tramitar las placas en otro estado, informese antes de importar un vehiculo amparado."

Google translation: "Can I get plates for a vehicle covered [by this AMPARO] in any state of the Mexican Republic?

No, the states that do not give plates to the vehicles covered are Mexico City, State of Mexico, Queretaro, Puebla, Morelos and Hidalgo. What you can do is to arrange the plates in another state, be informed before importing a vehicle covered [by this AMPARO]."

¿Estan haciendo importaciones bajo Amparo?

Si, el tiempo aproximado del tramite es de 1-2 dias habiles.

"Are you guys doing imports under an Amparo?

Yes, if processed approximate time is 1-2 business days."

Evidently this AMPARO does not have the hefty duty that ADUANA levies on pre 1984 vehicles they classify as "classics".

"¿Qué es eso de importación bajo amparo?

Las importaciones bajo amparo se hacen através de una comercializadora que se fue a juicio de amparo para no pagar impuestos tan altos, esta importa los vehículos a su nombre y después le regresa el titulo al importador, el pedimento a nombre de la comercializadora y una factura comercial del vehiculo a nombre del importador."

"What's this AMPARO importation protection?

Imports under protection are achieved through a company who went to injunction [AMPARO] not to pay taxes [duty] so high, this transfers the vehicles to their name and then returns you the title through the importer, the motion on behalf of the company and a commercial vehicle invoice on behalf of the importer."

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Hi I am new to posting but have read chapala.com for years.

I am in Nuevo Larado right now to get my car nationalized. I have found some honest people to help me and the process will be done today with LEGAL papers.

I will post the hole process when I am done.

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Hi I am new to posting but have read chapala.com for years.

I am in Nuevo Larado right now to get my car nationalized. I have found some honest people to help me and the process will be done today with LEGAL papers.

I will post the hole process when I am done.

You are awesome, ChapalaCharlie. Can you tell us, do the honest people speak English?

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Hi I am new to posting but have read chapala.com for years.

I am in Nuevo Larado right now to get my car nationalized. I have found some honest people to help me and the process will be done today with LEGAL papers.

I will post the hole process when I am done.

I would be wise to carefully evaluable any additional information that this first time poster might provide. Please note Nuevo Laredo was spelled incorrectly and "hole" was used as opposed to "whole". I was tempted to delete this post but decided it would not be appropriate to do so.

ADDED BY COCINA MOD: The IP address from chapalacharlie shows that the post originated in Ottawa, British Columbia, making the entire post entirely suspect. My vote is to either delete it, but warn that readers should ignore it.

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