privado Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 Mainecoons, on 29 Apr 2013 - 10:11, said: Then maybe they better get serious about looking at all the INM/Aduana chaos they've dumped on the expat community since the first of the year because, right now, it sure looks like they don't care about it much. Just sayin. . . Yep, they shot themselves in the foot one more time and if they keep it up, there will be mass unemploymet, all contractors will go back to being gardeners (and for whom?) and fishermen. Then families will have to move out of rented houses to tarpaper shacks. Read Rony's Post- The Government is not thinking about expats that live in Chapala-they are acting and responding to many other more important issues going on in this country-The army wasn't sent there to protect you, they're trying to contain cartel activity from spreading closer to GDL. Tourist dollars to beach areas bring in huge of amounts of money, one of the largest sources of income for Mexico- 5-8,000 expats in Chapala are miniscule-by comparison- Don't believe you were thinking about the village people when you decided to sell and leave - the 32,000 mxn you spend will be replaced by the new wave of 40 -50 yr old Tapitios, who are taking their parents place and building new homes all along the Lakefront-or inheriting old family homes- I can count at least 12 families i know personally who have 5-6 in their immediate family and large extended families with another 15-20 members who visit of and on monthly- Tapitios all employ married couples or guards who live in their Lakeside homes year around- not a once a week maid or gardener- and They have more disposable income than 5 expats couples combined and they spend it on restaurants,boats, gas for cars, boats, jet skies, food, parties,home maintenance and shopping in the villages. As has happened in the states during the recession- village workers will evolve and change and maybe some of the young will get an education and leave for jobs in El Salto or the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joco Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 chrisb, expats put 100 fold into the ecomony than they take out. few ever use their IMSS, they pay in for an emergency. often will do thefollowup care w/a private dr. so there is much cash going into imss. as for the public hospital i know only one person who used it, same w/imss on a regular basis. the drain on the system is the ovious. but guess what, state police/army have little to do you & me. they have bigger fish to fry. ajijicis4me: "developing" means not developed YET. Just using some simple numbers, someone wrote that there are 5,000 foreigners lakeside. I think it is closer to 6,000 full time residents but let's use 5,000. Say that each only receives or spends $1000 USD (or equivalent ) a month and of course all of that would be spent each month. That is $5,000,000 USD a month or $60,000,000 a year. That's a lot of money in a small area and the big box stores couldn't survive lakeside without the foreign population. I'm sure foreigner accounts in the banks and investment houses have more in accounts than the minimum we spend here in a month. We are at the beginning of the retiring Baby Boomers and I don't know why Mexico would want to lose the money the retirees can spend in Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajijicis4me Posted April 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Read Rony's Post- The Government is not thinking about expats that live in Chapala-they are acting and responding to many other more important issues going on in this country-The army wasn't sent there to protect you, they're trying to contain cartel activity from spreading closer to GDL. Tourist dollars to beach areas bring in huge of amounts of money, one of the largest sources of income for Mexico- 5-8,000 expats in Chapala are miniscule-by comparison- Don't believe you were thinking about the village people when you decided to sell and leave - the 32,000 mxn you spend will be replaced by the new wave of 40 -50 yr old Tapitios, who are taking their parents place and building new homes all along the Lakefront-or inheriting old family homes- I can count at least 12 families i know personally who have 5-6 in their immediate family and large extended families with another 15-20 members who visit of and on monthly- Tapitios all employ married couples or guards who live in their Lakeside homes year around- not a once a week maid or gardener- and They have more disposable income than 5 expats couples combined and they spend it on restaurants,boats, gas for cars, boats, jet skies, food, parties,home maintenance and shopping in the villages. As has happened in the states during the recession- village workers will evolve and change and maybe some of the young will get an education and leave for jobs in El Salto or the city. And they pay their maids and gardeners and contractors half of what foreigners pay, that's why Mexicans won't work for them. How many times have you heard that Gringos spoil the Mexican help??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valbogyo Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Read Rony's Post- The Government is not thinking about expats that live in Chapala-they are acting and responding to many other more important issues going on in this country-The army wasn't sent there to protect you, they're trying to contain cartel activity from spreading closer to GDL. Tourist dollars to beach areas bring in huge of amounts of money, one of the largest sources of income for Mexico- 5-8,000 expats in Chapala are miniscule-by comparison- Don't believe you were thinking about the village people when you decided to sell and leave - the 32,000 mxn you spend will be replaced by the new wave of 40 -50 yr old Tapitios, who are taking their parents place and building new homes all along the Lakefront-or inheriting old family homes- I can count at least 12 families i know personally who have 5-6 in their immediate family and large extended families with another 15-20 members who visit of and on monthly- Tapitios all employ married couples or guards who live in their Lakeside homes year around- not a once a week maid or gardener- and They have more disposable income than 5 expats couples combined and they spend it on restaurants,boats, gas for cars, boats, jet skies, food, parties,home maintenance and shopping in the villages. As has happened in the states during the recession- village workers will evolve and change and maybe some of the young will get an education and leave for jobs in El Salto or the city. I have observed a lot of very well off Mexicans eating in the same places I eat, shopping in the same stores and sipping expensive coffee at Black coffee. There is a lot of money in Mexico and I agree that a lot of the expat homes will end up belonging to this group of Mexicans. I just don't understand why you assume that the people who posted "they are here to protect us", meant "us" as being the expat population. When I read it I thought they meant us, residents of the area. I hope that the Army being here will keep things peaceful during the anniversary week of last May. The victims families would be further tramatized with anything less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rony Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Just using some simple numbers, someone wrote that there are 5,000 foreigners lakeside. I think it is closer to 6,000 full time residents but let's use 5,000. Say that each only receives or spends $1000 USD (or equivalent ) a month and of course all of that would be spent each month. That is $5,000,000 USD a month or $60,000,000 a year. That's a lot of money in a small area and the big box stores couldn't survive lakeside without the foreign population. I'm sure foreigner accounts in the banks and investment houses have more in accounts than the minimum we spend here in a month. We are at the beginning of the retiring Baby Boomers and I don't know why Mexico would want to lose the money the retirees can spend in Mexico. Mexico already lost it, just by their new immigration law,..... unless all baby boomers have high retirement income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennie Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 ajijicis4me: i meant the police/army has little to do WITH you & me. (typo error). i also said: the "drain on the system is the ovious"- i decided not to qualify that comment. rony knows what that means, the top bananas. most retirees have no conception they are in another country. well, costco is here......they think its an extension of NEW mexico. next: people like to feel important, to BE somebody (heellllooo facebook! same thing). this need is so insatiable that the reaction is like the "pablos dog"- bell rings, wallet opens. bell rings wallet opens, repeat. (3 decades of tradition). when a delegate says "we want to hear your voice"...that means bingo, "we want you to pay for street repairs". or they concoct a story about state police needing $$$$. (right..... they just "showed up, no food or water"). again the wallets open. why not milk the cow? (i certainly would in their position). & why buy the cow when the milk is FREE? i do agree that these little towns did need income from the expats. maybe maincoones is right, maybe they figure the bucks are bigger w/the newer crowd? the politicans on the bottom will have to just accept the fact their party may be over. the new guard is not paying for repairs or police tips. most of all, they dont need the same validation. the game will be over, this will be like a normal part of mexico. i really dont think the army is here to protect anyone, but rony says it better than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHBOY Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 I frankly get a little tired of being told constantly how stupid I am. Because I choose not to get extremely excited because the military is posted between Ajijic and SJC, because I didn't already nationalize my car, because I don't necessarily follow everyone's advice about security, I'm stupid. We have all chosen to live here and take the good with the bad. I adore it here. I choose not to own a house, partially because I'm tired of being a homeowner, and partially because I like the freedom of not being tied down. I like to read the web board but am starting to doubt my sanity in that regard. Maybe I really AM stupid. Add another Huzzah for this post. If I was to listen to allof, and believe all of, what is siad here, I'd question my sanity also. But maybe head in the sand is the way to happiness. I've needed to make lots of changes, I've faced my share of obstacles here, but there is nothing, including this army thing that has me questioning my intelligence of being here as a long term renter with a Jalisco plated car. They say that the only really sane people are in the institutions for the insane, maybe they are right. BTW - if you've ever lived in the Middle East or in Israel as I have, the presence of soldiers and police is considered normal, and no big deal. Hey folks, we've all chosen this place and if it is not for you, no one is forced to stay. Will the population of expats receded? Possibly. It will be like the waters of the lake: it will go down and then go up again in a cycle, but I cannot see the presence of an expat community here suddenly and totally disappearing, not when this is such a great place.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rony Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Some people will hate me for this, but you can only just start to understand what is going on by REALLY studying Spanish, learning to speak it fluently and then use that tool to dig into the culture, the social media and mingle with educated Mexicans. There is a lot that I do not know, but I am working very hard at it because as the cliche goes, knowledge definetely is power and I do not want to live in a country, where I do not understand at least 90 % of the language and culture (so I really know what is going on around me and can try to fit the Mexican glasses to just begin to understand things) . As an example, like being able to read and completely understand the article that More Liana just posted here (it matters in this discussion)..... thanks M L. Therefore, I am still studying myself..... it is an ongoing and fun task and..... ever so interesting !! Sorry, but the Guadalajara Reporter does not provide you with in depth info. And maybe, you do not want to know and that really is ok,..... it removes some stress but you can not have it both ways,..... with limited info, expressing opinions and expecting other people to just swallow that. Better to just focus on fair weather items and skip this thread. If you can not stand the heat..... That way, everybody will be happy. It is a constant struggle between your need to know on the one hand and your capability or willingness to deal with it. I read daily that non Mexican journalists have not got a clue themselves (comparing them to decent Mexican journalists and what I learn from them). I also want to add again, that unfortunately because of the lack of freedom of speech in Mexico (imposed by different groups), a lot of things can not be talked about in the open..... sad but very thrue. We want to live here, so I guess that this is one of the things that we have to accept. And it certainly is not my intention (in my previous post) to hurt some people's feelings but some things just need to be said. Yesterday, I started to read the first posts of this thread and managed to refrain myself, but today I got weak and more expressif, I guess. Rony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernguy Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 The bottom line is the military, state and federal police are here as well as in many other areas of Mexico, which is for the general wellbeing of the country. After all, how many local north american expats have actually been kidnapped and killed etc. Really people who wants to actually kidnap a liabilty who may need medical care...Give it a rest! Enjoy the country and the culture, if you cant do that there are many other places that you may want to consider. The lake Chapala area has always done well, going from a small fishing village to a now what I consider a larger bedroom community of Guadalajara, as far as business goes, talking to many businesses it seems a majority are now starting to reap the benefits of the tapatio community, it makes sense, more disposable income. I personally can only see lakeside growing and becoming for example a modern day Cuernavaca witha much better climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Some people will hate me for this, but you can only just start to understand what is going on by REALLY studying Spanish, learning to speak it fluently and then use that tool to dig into the culture, the social media and mingle with educated Mexicans. There is a lot that I do not know, but I am working very hard at it because as the cliche goes, knowledge definetely is power and I do not want to live in a country, where I do not understand at least 90 % of the language and culture (so I really know what is going on around me and can try to fit the Mexican glasses to just begin to understand things) . As an example, like being able to read and completely understand the article that More Liana just posted here (it matters in this discussion)..... thanks M L. I agree. Nonetheless, I don't think you're going to convince anybody to make a serious effort to learn Spanish, no matter how true that is. (I read the article.) I think the vast majority of foreigners in this area simply want their retirement years to be easy and comfortable. Learning a language isn't easy. It's a lot of work. And even just beginning to understand what's going on in this country is the opposite of comfortable. Of course, none of that will prevent people from having opinions about things. So there you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennie Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 rony, i do not speak spanish, yet we are on the "same" page. why? as you know i didnt fall of a turnip truck. learning a new language is a special skill, something i could not even do for highschool. needed a special home tutor to pass the test. went to europe the following year, could not even put together a sentence. there are some older folks who can & want to learn a language. they have that skill built in, it is stimulating for them. you are forgetting most people come here are much older than you. & you already speak 2 languages fluently. how many mexican old grandmas (who arrived in the US @ age 68) can speak fluent english, or read complicated articals? the younger ones learn fast, even before starting school. english was my fathers second language, but he learned as a child, thats easy. w/the internet there is much to read & listen too. i can switch from saudi arabian TV talk shows (subtitles) to reading a newspaper from india. (in english). how do i know about mexico? just by living here, having mexican friends for years, again living here, visiting for family for many years before. when my mother said, "if the police come, dont open the door. if they ask to use the phone, say sorry its broken" "if we get robbed, dont let them in" i GOT it. & my mother didnt have a great intellect. if she GOT some stuff, anyone can. you cannot tell 70 yr olds to learn spanish. yes, they should retire peacefully, maybe not wave so much to the soldiers. sorry, but i disagree on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valbogyo Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 At a meeting recently the chief of police reported that crime in the last month is way down. Nothing but petty crimes occurring. This coincides with the arrival of the state police. They are ranging all around the whole north shore. Assuredly the army is operating the same way and can only benefit us all. Maybe by this time next year we will have gotten some kind of crime free award? It's nice to dream. ChrisB, you are a positive person that wants to be hopeful that things can improve and actually puts in the time and effort to try and improve life in the community. I met with someone today that works so hard on helping the victims of crime. Last Saturday I went to SJC, on a tour, and I was able to see the great effort being made to engage all the kids in sports and activities to keep them busy and give them something to look forward to. Its good to have a dream to work towards. There are many people in both the Mexican and ExPat community that know exactly what is going on but choose to be hopeful and work with the resources they have available to them to improve things. It is not in their nature to sit still when they see work to be done and though they know what is going on around them, it does not stop them from trying. They choose hope and take action. I do not understand some of the peoples comments on this thread. What can be acomplished by telling everyone it is hopeless? What is the objective of responding to any positive comment with a lecture on why the person is wrong? Why must someone be ignorant if they choose to make a positive observation? Honestly, I prefer to align myself with people who are meeting with local civic leaders to develop programs to help the community, raise money for therapy for the victims of crime and work together to share information and become more informed on what is happening around us. Okay, my Rant is over. I also spoke with some Mexican long time residents today. They do not think the soldiers are saints and they are not hanging out with them, but they are glad they are here at the moment. For what ever it is they know, they would rather have the soldiers here than not... at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennie Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 valgal, if anyone has given to the mexican community it is RONY. (it is possible to contribute, & still have a grip on reality). it is not what he does that impresses me, its is "how" he does it. few people could continue that job service w/out drama, collections, parties. rony is a no nonsence person, hes been around the block a few times. he does his service work quietly, w/out an agenda. he has the wisdom to know what he can do, & what he cannot change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valbogyo Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 valgal, if anyone has given to the mexican community it is RONY. (it is possible to contribute, & still have a grip on reality). it is not what he does that impresses me, its is "how" he does it. few people could continue that job service w/out drama, collections, parties. rony is a no nonsence person, hes been around the block a few times. he does his service work quietly, w/out an agenda. he has the wisdom to know what he can do, & what he cannot change. And your point is? No one said Rony is not contributing to the community. He certainly shows great passion for helping people in a real practical way. He is someone who actually does something. I raised a question about the purpose of the negative reaction to positive observations and comments. It is not constructive and it is disrespectful. I know people who have recently left this board because they are frustrated that they can not say anything positive about the community without being told they are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennie Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 my point was that rony knows the reality. the good, the bad, the ugly, the wonderful. he expresses all of it on the forum. i do not think he is a negative person. i am sure you are doing good work as well. i cannot judge you, as i dont have the information. ronys knowlege is way above most members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rony Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 and .... ChrisB seems like a positive person who means well. Congratulations for that. But there is more to it.....people also deserve to know the other view and it will be up to them to decide. Valgal, simply dividing up this world in positivos and negativos is just not the right way. Being more critical does not automatically mean.... sitting in a corner, silking, waiting for the end of the world to come. Quite the opposite..... and this is my number one principle, that I want to underline : if, step by step, we want to make this world a better place, we need to first see, learn and accept the facts. Only then you will have good, strong building ground for a fair and hopeful future. Without the French revolution, we might have had a different world. And being a European, I just have to be a little negative (if you want to call it like that) once in a while,.... it is in our genes . Furthermore, I am raised in a school system, with very strong emphasis on critical thinking. If another person sees something else, which he/she regards as facts,..... so be it. Is that not what a forum is all about. There are a lot of strong, almost overemotional reactions against the so called negative (I call it, realistic) view, and I understand why. And believe me or not..... many times, I read things, shake my head, feel kind of sad, but do not respond (it is hard though). Buenas noches (and..... by the way,..... not that I am interested, but are there actually women soldiers outthere ? ), time to look for rainbirds... Ronaldo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valbogyo Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 my point was that rony knows the reality. the good, the bad, the ugly, the wonderful. he expresses all of it on the forum. i do not think he is a negative person. i am sure you are doing good work as well. i cannot judge you, as i dont have the information. ronys knowlege is way above most members. Well, its great that you have eachothers backs. You are both quick to defend eachother. It would be great if you could treat others with that kind of respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rony Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Well, its great that you have eachothers backs. You are both quick to defend eachother. It would be great if you could treat others with that kind of respect. Is having a different opinion the same as treating someone without respect ??? Please, you might want to reread my posts. Let us not go to a lower or personal level here. It has been an interesting discussion so far, not a war. Taking it there, is usually what ends the thread. And Bennie and I have disagreed several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hud Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 I frankly get a little tired of being told constantly how stupid I am. Because I choose not to get extremely excited because the military is posted between Ajijic and SJC, because I didn't already nationalize my car, because I don't necessarily follow everyone's advice about security, I'm stupid. We have all chosen to live here and take the good with the bad. I adore it here. I choose not to own a house, partially because I'm tired of being a homeowner, and partially because I like the freedom of not being tied down. I like to read the web board but am starting to doubt my sanity in that regard. Maybe I really AM stupid. and, Travis said: "I think the vast majority of foreigners in this area simply want their retirement years to be easy and comfortable. Learning a language isn't easy. It's a lot of work. And even just beginning to understand what's going on in this country is the opposite of comfortable." satnrose, These are my favorites. Copy, paste, and put on my refrig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajijicis4me Posted April 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Mexico already lost it, just by their new immigration law,..... unless all baby boomers have high retirement income. And it's their own stupid fault for shooting themselves in the foot. They never learn and they will regret it. Even the smarter bi-lingual Mexicans don't understand what they were thinking of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennie Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 rony, you cant expect most americans (expats etc) to understand the mexican system. they dont understand their OWN system. (cannot speak for candians, assume it is similar). the US govt is as shady corrupt, as the mexican. both govts can walk together off into the sunset. in spite of the US circus pony act, many americans always will believe what they are told too. (even when massive coverups are ovious, & insulting to intelligence). so why not believe what mexican delegates say? or the new president says, or what caulderon said? same thing, right? you can take a person out of their country, but the mindset remains. the mexicans on the other hand are always looking @ the angles, the double talk, they are more of a speculative people. from the educated to the illiterate, they have the critical thinking abilities that the average americana does not. btw, i am impressed w/many of the comments on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Monitor This dog and pony show is way off topic . Isn't it time to end it? BTW monitor will I ever outlive the shame of my two warning points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajijic Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Agree totally. It could have been shut down after first page or two of posts. After two Americans being killed, numerous kidnappings, narco shootout and the murder of 16 more, residents were demanding action. Finally, some results and yet many not happy. Lakeside has two main roads in and out. A checkpoint around Chapala Haciendas and the current one so many are questioning I would consider positives considering these and other events. These checkpoints have to be a deterrent and no different than the one on Hwy 2 between Barra de Navidad and Manzanillo and again on HWY 2 near Troncones as one drives to Zihuatanejo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hud Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 BTW monitor will I ever outlive the shame of my two warning points? I don't follow this post for this topic? Why do so many keep bringing up NOB comparisons, when Mexico and the "Mexican way" are so different? There are no valid comparisons. To say things are better, worse, etc. serves no purpose, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moderator-2 Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Yes, I think we've covered the topic here. Chris, warning points are not fatal unless ingested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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