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renewl FM3 next month


Steve71

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Hi,

I am new to the forum and have a question about my upcomming FM3 (non imigrante/non lucrativo) renewl. This will be the first renewl after I got the FM last year.

I have already spoken with my lawyer and was told not to worry, but reading around on the Internet and about the new law I wanted an extra opinion. I have closed all bank accounts back home and have my account here in Mexico since mid December and I am due for my renewl mid April. Since I had the account here I made each month direct cash deposits of approx. 30000-50000 Pesos. Now my lawyer told me I might need 3 month statements which is fine, but reading around I saw 6 months required under the new law. If they ask me for 6 months I won't be able to show them since my account here is only 3.5 month old?

I wanted to ask here about an opinion, will this cause me a problem renewing my FM3 or you think it'll be fine? Have also heard some people don't even provide statements for the renewl?

Would be great if you could give me an opinion, I am kind of getting nervous.

Thanks so much

Steve71

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Who is your lawyer? I don't believe that you need financials for a routine renewal. I'm really not criticizing you but I don't understand why you, and others, select expediters or lawyers whose guidance you feel you must question and in many cases appear not to know what they are doing. Spencer (Intercasa) of Chapala Law consistently gives free and sound advice to people on this board that have made poor choices in selecting someone to help them with the visa process. I really think that if we feel we need assistance with the visa process or other legal matters that we should reward Spencer with our business. His fees are reasonable and he and Denise great to work with.

Steve, I am not intending to criticize you and it's good you had the sense to seek additional guidance. It's just that after seeing this happen so frequently I felt obligated to promote Spencer and hopefully help you and others out.

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You should be able to renew as a residente temporal without financials. Then, when you have completed 4 years in that status, you will move to residente permanente without financials, unless you choose to leave Mexico and re-apply as residente temporal at a consulate for another 4 years. That latter approach would require new financial qualifications.

Many local lawyers seem very confused. Nothing new there, but they will charge you anyway. Here, at Lakeside, I would recommend Spencer (Intercasa) above all others unless you choose to do the process yourself.

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Second that recommendation of Spencer. There is simply too much confusion around this right now to go it on your own unless you are really fluent and experienced with dealing with government here.

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Thanks a lot guys for your answers. I am in Cancun, so I can't use Spencers services. Anyway was at my lawyers again yesterday and he assured me it won't be a problem to renew with the documents I have, most likely they won't need any financial statements this time since I just renew my FM. It'll be fine he said.

Cheers

Steve71

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hola Steve71:

You should be able to renew your FM3 into the Visa Temporal,(the FM visas no longer exist) without financials. Make sure you take it for the number of additional years you need to eventually have the 4 years and are then eligible for permanente status.

I am currently preparing a report which will be submitted to the jefe of Immigracion in Guadalajara, and it is my hope I will be asked to take it to Mexico City with the person who asked me to help, with the good possibility it will be received by Presidente Nieto. His government inherited this mess when he took office in November, 2012.

I have received many emails from persons who are reporting they are in the process of leaving the country for good, because of the new laws. These emails are being used for this report and in mentioning this to you Steve, please if you know of persons who have been negatively impacted by this, who live in Cancun, have them write about their situation to me at bfoster100@hotmail.com

Due to Mexican Privacy Law I will not disclose personal information about the writer, as to do so is illegal without me first obtaining a legal consent form.

I hope you can support me by spreading the word in Cancun, and having people write to me, as what is happening here at Lake Chapala is in fact happening to many people throughout this country.

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Mexguy, I think one of the big things they could do immediately to help the situation is to address the car problem. Basically it is this:

Prior to the changes, you had the choice of FM3, FM2 or Immigrado. You had to meet certain requirements for Immigrado but you could renew as FM2 or FM3 indefinitely and under Article 106, as long as your renewals were kept current and not allowed to lapse, your original car permit was still good. The immigrado could not drive a U.S. plated car.

Now, however, there's a time limit on the new Temporal which replaced FM2/FM3. At the same time, it appears that Aduana have decided on their own to apply the immigrado standard to the new Permanente, although there is nothing in the immigration law that makes that connection. Now, in effect, the expat has no real choice as to whether to remain "temporary" and retain the right to drive their properly imported car so long as their visas are kept current. Now, they either have to go permanente after 4 years, including time already on their visa "clock" or leave the country and try to reestablish Temporal from outside.

It seems to me that the fair solution would be to either allow existing expats who are required to go Permanente to grandfather their existing car permits, with no right to bring in another car, or provide a reasonable means for them to import the car, again one time only, regardless of what the car is or where it came from. As a last resort, perhaps they could simply let us "kick the can down the road" and be able to apply for 4 more years of Temporal without having to leave the country.

As it stands now, Aduana seems to be imposing a past standard on a new law and causing a lot of problems in the expat community. Mexico's stated goal is to encourage expat retirees, I would think this heavy handed behavior by Aduana will do quite the opposite.

This is a separate issue from the very high income requirements. But it is a straw that is breaking the camel's backs for more than a few expats. Someone in authority needs to recognize that Mexico is in competition for the expat retiree "market" and this is not the way to go about it.

I'm emailing you this as well.

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No financials needed unless switching between types such as working to non working or student to non working or if renewing late or jumping ahead to permanente without having 4 years on old visas or doing so more than 30 days prior to renewal. I am hopeful that this month immigration offices all over will be on the same page.

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You have to be brain dead not to understand this: In no country, anywhere on planet earth or elsewhere (rumors of rules on Alpha Centauri), can you claim permanente or its equivalent and still own a foreign-plated vehicle.

You have to be brain dead to not understand that the only thing that is needed is a way of replacing your NOB plates (tags) with a set of Jalisco plates on a one time basis. I would prefer to pay the annual renewal fees to Jalisco if I had that option.

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You have to be brain dead not to understand this: In no country, anywhere on planet earth or elsewhere (rumors of rules on Alpha Centauri), can you claim permanente or its equivalent and still own a foreign-plated vehicle.

You have to be brain dead if you can't grasp the problem here which I believe that I stated quite clearly. In point of fact you could have your car here under the old rules indefinitely and so that is what people have adjusted to. What has apparently happened here is an abrupt change of policy with no warning and no slack given to the many thousands of people who are here under the old rules. What is being suggested is that a wise thing to do would be to provide said slack or some sort of transition to give people a chance to adjust.

Just getting up one morning, announcing the new rule, WITH NO APPARENT LEGISLATIVE BASIS FOR THE CHANGE IN ADUANA POLICY, going around harassing people and confiscating cars is not the way to handle this matter. That was the point I was making and I'll stick to it.

And BTW, some of the countries that Mexico competes with for the expat dollar allow the expat to import a car DUTY FREE and with a great deal less trouble than importation here.

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In point of fact you could have your car here under the old rules indefinitely and so that is what people have adjusted to.

Only if you had a temporary visa. If you moved to immigrants status you lost the right to own a foreign-plated vehicle here.

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Again, you continue to miss the point. Before, one could have a temporary visa indefinitely and keep the car. Now, unless you want to risk trying to renew temporary by leaving the country, you MUST go permanente after 4 years. And Aduana has chosen to equate the Permanente with the former Immigrado with no direct stipulation of equivalency in the new law.

That is what is different and that is why some form of transition is appropriate and needed. Just all the sudden running around and confiscating people's cars is a sure way to get more to leave.

Understand now?

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Again, you continue to miss the point. Before, one could have a temporary visa indefinitely and keep the car. Now, unless you want to risk trying to renew temporary by leaving the country, you MUST go permanente after 4 years. And Aduana has chosen to equate the Permanente with the former Immigrado with no direct stipulation of equivalency in the new law.

That is what is different and that is why some form of transition is appropriate and needed. Just all the sudden running around and confiscating people's cars is a sure way to get more to leave.

Understand now?

You are 100% correct that the new INM rules are lacking in any reasonableness. ADUANA so far hasn't written any rules about keeping a vehicle with a permanente. I read somewhere that it ADUANA might make it possible to keep a foreign plated vehicle with a permanente rentista, not working, like the old FM2. I think the rules will be tweaked some more this year and those of us who must go permanante might be able to keep our foreign plated vehicles if we are not working.

You are right that many countries competing for our residency and our dollars don't have all the hoops for us to jump through and I bet those countries will be getting the new retirees, the retirees who would have settled in Mexico if Mexico hadn't changed the rules so dramatically.

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Missing the Point is exactly the Point

We all know the Rule of Law in the US and Canada- regarding vehicle registration

Applying some Common Sense - What is a Temporary Resident ?

A person who lives or moves to a foreign country for 6 months to a year for vacation or job

you may keep your foreign plated car in the country with authorization during this time period

BUT

If You stay in the country here MORE THAN 1 YEAR - Year Around - you are no longer a Temporary Resident

If You Own a Home in this country -AND live here year around- You are no Longer a Temporary Resident

THEREFORE, your car is no longer a temporary resident and must be registered and licensed in the state where you reside.

Now that Mexico is applying the same logic as other countries we've lost any sense of perspective

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You are 100% correct that the new INM rules are lacking in any reasonableness. ADUANA so far hasn't written any rules about keeping a vehicle with a permanente. I read somewhere that it ADUANA might make it possible to keep a foreign plated vehicle with a permanente rentista, not working, like the old FM2. I think the rules will be tweaked some more this year and those of us who must go permanante might be able to keep our foreign plated vehicles if we are not working.

You are right that many countries competing for our residency and our dollars don't have all the hoops for us to jump through and I bet those countries will be getting the new retirees, the retirees who would have settled in Mexico if Mexico hadn't changed the rules so dramatically.

"ADUANA might make it possible to keep a foreign plated vehicle with a permanente rentista, not working, like the old FM2"

This is not a characteristic of the new catagories anymore. Only Residente Temporal - Rentista.

This is an Excel file from the SEGOB website that lists all new catagories and all are now one year except Residente Permanente and called Visitante so I am sure a TIP will be good for the rest, Visitante Residente Temporal visa holders.

http://webcache.goog...9&ct=clnk&gl=mx

Then click this link to show the statistics " Abra este contenido en una nueva ventana "

or click here to see the original download at SEGOB.gob.mx

http://www.inm.gob.m...aracion_V2.xlsx

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I think the only thing that lacks reasonableness is that there is no provision for a transition from the previous arrangement to the current one. There is no reason, despite the posting of people here who obviously aren't in this situation and don't understand it, why people would have expected this to change overnight.

And yet again, since some of you still can't seem to comprehend it, the CHANGE is that the option of people to remain Temporary and keep their car permits was ended in the new law without warning. It is not whether Immigrado = Permanente, that wasn't stipulated in the new law either.

It is becoming more and more apparent that Aduana has decided to interpret the law that Permanente = Immigrado and that is that. So we'll deal with it as best we can and it is likely that some will say enough is enough and leave. Some of you seem to anticipate that with some sort of perverse pleasure.

Also, I'm sure the Mexican folks who have depended on these people for employment wouldn't share the cavalier attitude that some have expressed here.

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It also seems that some folks naievely believe that we can simply trot on down to some Mexican version of the DMV and register our vehicles in Mexico. We cannot do that, especially if the vehicle happens to have been made in some country other than Mexico, USA or Canada (NAFTA). As such, that is pretty short notice to have to take a perfectly good vehicle out of Mexico, sell it at a loss at the nearest CarMax in Texas, take a bus or plane back and buy another vehicle in Mexico. For some, that alone is the straw that breaks the camel^s back.

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As such, that is pretty short notice to have to take a perfectly good vehicle out of Mexico, sell it at a loss at the nearest CarMax in Texas, take a bus or plane back and buy another vehicle in Mexico. For some, that alone is the straw that breaks the camel^s back.

Eleven months ago I bought (using S&S Auto) a brand new 2012 car in Guadalajara. Then I stowed it in my garage and drove my "perfectly good (ten-year-old) vehicle" from Ajijic to San Antonio, Texas. Carmax purchased my SUV for a fair price in 20 minutes. We took the proceeds from that transaction and spent it on 10 days vacation on the River Walk, then flew back to GDL. Let the whiners here do the same, or get out. Ex-pat "paradises" such as Panama and Ecuador are waiting to embrace them and their pensions.

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Eleven months ago I bought (using S&S Auto) a brand new 2012 car in Guadalajara. Then I stowed it in my garage and drove my "perfectly good (ten-year-old) vehicle" from Ajijic to San Antonio, Texas. Carmax purchased my SUV for a fair price in 20 minutes. We took the proceeds from that transaction and spent it on 10 days vacation on the River Walk, then flew back to GDL. Let the whiners here do the same, or get out. Ex-pat "paradises" such as Panama and Ecuador are waiting to embrace them and their pensions.

That is so harsh. I also bought a car in Mexico, but I don't feel smug about it. I just didn't want the cops harrassing me and I like the cars here that I can't get up North.

Now I am trying to help some elderly friends who are quite ill. They are absolutely stressed out because they can not believe how hard it is to nationalize their 2004 Nafta car. Yes..... this is a car that is totally approved for nationalization and they have to hire someone to get the car through the difficult and time consuming process. They would absolutely drive it out of the country and sell it, but they can't due to illness. They would still have to hire someone to help them and they speak the language of that country!

It would be nice if they issues a 90 day temporary permit or something like that to give people time to do this.

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CarMax pays WHOLESALE. Glad you were happy with that but don't think for a minute you didn't lose money on the deal.

Since you don't have a clue about the make and model of my SUV, or how much I sold it for, you don't know what you're talking about. The CarMax experience was perfect for us.

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