The New Car Rules--Not Good News

[sparks]

So that would mean if you got your Temporal up north ... you would have to import your car at the border because Temps are only for tourists. Hmmmm ....

[ritchie]

I know this was in a thread some time ago BUT.

Spencer....how much to nationalize our car at your office. We would definitely use you as we have in the past years for all other legal services.

2002 Chevy Impala brought into Mexico 2010. We will be on our third FM3 renewal next month.

We would surely like to stay in Mexico.... but will go back to the US if this keeps getting harder and harder.

[giltner68]

Interesting isn't it, MX makes it harder for legals to stay while the US makes it easier for the illegals to stay?

[Sailor]

This is the first year in seven years I hear folks saying......"enuff". They are considering leaving for a lot of reasons. This car mess will likely be the straw for some.

Absolutely!! We have had enough after 6 wonderful years here. We listed our house 3 weeks ago and sold it in two weeks. We are out of here at the end of March. Our real estate agent said they have never had so many listings coming in to sell houses.

[More Liana]

I know this was in a thread some time ago BUT.

Spencer....how much to nationalize our car at your office. We would definitely use you as we have in the past years for all other legal services.

2002 Chevy Impala brought into Mexico 2010. We will be on our third FM3 renewal next month.

We would surely like to stay in Mexico.... but will go back to the US if this keeps getting harder and harder.

Spencer has repeatedly posted that his office is no longer doing nationalizations.

[chapalafan]

Thank you Spencer for keeping us informed of the facts. Unfortunately, there are some who keep asking the same question in hopes of getting the answer that makes them happy. Then, the misinformed report things as fact. This is what leads to more unnecessary panic.

Patience is a virtue that unfortunately some do not possess.

Thanks for all of the hard work you do to help us all.

[CWB]

Patience may be a virtue but it's hard when you feel you whole life is about to change as some will forced to move to another country.

In the meantime, no one from a position of high authority in the government is able to give any definitive answer to the many questions we have. I'm not talking local INM offices but someone at the top.

It's hard to be patient when your whole life is in limbo and you're living in fear of what they'll do next.

In the meantime we are looking at countries south of here that are more expat friendly than Mexico has become.

No matter where you go there is good an bad and those countries, in some cases, these countries offer far more benefits than Mexico does and are expat friendly.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Yesterday we went to see our lawyer in Ajijic since our old FM'3 expire in two months. She told us that we need to show 36,000mx per month per person for one year for permanent status or have over 1 million pesos each in investments for the year. She told us that the information given out at the meeting was wrong and showed us the INM written/stamped rules. We also would have to nationalize our vehicle - according to the law it has to be at least 6 years old, fortunately ours is 6 years old - the cost is approximately 28,000mx - this includes the person going to the border and Tonala.

She said that there are many here who are unable to show the income/investments necessary - some who are only living on 600USD per month.

We have no other alternative but to go permanent status and to nationalize our car. We are fortunate to have the means to do this, but many do not, and that is a shame.

Since living here we have rescued a fair amount of dogs that we love and would never leave or abandon, so at this time we cannot go back NOB, but as soon as we can we will be leaving.

[gringal]

I heard a joke once about aliens checking in on planet Earth and concluding that the dominant life form was the automobile. This thread makes me wonder.

How hard is it, really, to take that car back NOB, sell it, and buy a Mexican car, either new or used? Not as expensive in the long run as to leave all the good things you have here in Lakeside, pay the freight to take your stuff NOB and discover that the house you can afford there (in a livable climate where you won't have to watch out for alligators) is going to cost you way more than the house you owned or rented here? Have a nice meal out NOB and gasp at the tab.

In other words, maybe some perspective on the car issue is in order. We sold our vehicle for $3,000 US three years ago June, bought a nice new compact car which, including all the extra fees, cost $18,000. The $15K difference was nothing compared to leaving the country and everything mentioned above. Several of the trips most people take to visit NOB relatives about covers that expense.

The only people I feel sorry for are the ones already here who haven't had their visas long enough to avoid the financial wall, or those who were counting on moving to Mexico and now won't be able to qualify. However, many countries including Canada have much more onerous financial requirements than Mexico.

Sure, you can find someplace else to move, but who says the same problems won't pop up there in the future? Things change.

[jrm30655]

Yesterday we went to see our lawyer in Ajijic since our old FM'3 expire in two months. She told us that we need to show 36,000mx per month per person for one year for permanent status or have over 1 million pesos each in investments for the year. She told us that the information given out at the meeting was wrong and showed us the INM written/stamped rules. We also would have to nationalize our vehicle - according to the law it has to be at least 6 years old, fortunately ours is 6 years old - the cost is approximately 28,000mx - this includes the person going to the border and Tonala.

She said that there are many here who are unable to show the income/investments necessary - some who are only living on 600USD per month.

We have no other alternative but to go permanent status and to nationalize our car. We are fortunate to have the means to do this, but many do not, and that is a shame.

Since living here we have rescued a fair amount of dogs that we love and would never leave or abandon, so at this time we cannot go back NOB, but as soon as we can we will be leaving.

I have no idea who your lawyer is but I'd find another one.

1. If you have an FM3 with less than 4 years, you can go temporal with no financials.

2. If you have 4 or 5 years on an FM3, you can go permanent, no financials.

3. The financial assets are part of the points program which hasn't been written yet.

These facts are all well established.....

As far as cars, that hasn't been written yet so no one knows what it will turn out to be.

[jrm30655]

I heard a joke once about aliens checking in on planet Earth and concluding that the dominant life form was the automobile. This thread makes me wonder.

How hard is it, really, to take that car back NOB, sell it, and buy a Mexican car, either new or used? Not as expensive in the long run as to leave all the good things you have here in Lakeside, pay the freight to take your stuff NOB and discover that the house you can afford there (in a livable climate where you won't have to watch out for alligators) is going to cost you way more than the house you owned or rented here? Have a nice meal out NOB and gasp at the tab.

In other words, maybe some perspective on the car issue is in order. We sold our vehicle for $3,000 US three years ago June, bought a nice new compact car which, including all the extra fees, cost $18,000. The $15K difference was nothing compared to leaving the country and everything mentioned above. Several of the trips most people take to visit NOB relatives about covers that expense.

The only people I feel sorry for are the ones already here who haven't had their visas long enough to avoid the financial wall, or those who were counting on moving to Mexico and now won't be able to qualify. However, many countries including Canada have much more onerous financial requirements than Mexico.

Sure, you can find someplace else to move, but who says the same problems won't pop up there in the future? Things change.

I looked at the numbers.

If I took my Jeep to the border and sold it, I would get a wholesale price. If I came back and bought the same thing here, I would pay a retail price. That difference alone is more than the cost to nationalize.

Plus, if the car is nationalized, I can sell it here and get more than in the states.

I'm not happy about having to cough up $2000 or so to nationalize my car but it is cheaper than anything else that I see.

[Travis]

In other words, maybe some perspective on the car issue is in order.

No kidding. Other than that, your post is far too reasonable gringal. It leaves no opportunity for people to panic and get shrill.

[CWB]

<quote>How hard is it, really, to take that car back NOB, sell it, and buy a Mexican car, either new or used?</quote>

If you are from Canada it's very difficult and very costly.

As for shipping stuff north...compared to moving to another country.... Cost prohibitive. I own only a car and computers. No home and no possession of value. I'd sell everything except one laptop. I'd drive or fly to a new country and easily start over.

I'm tired of all the upset these laws have brought and don't feel very welcomed here. In fact I feel like they are trying to get rid of us. For years many of us lived here in relative peace, spent our money here, put money in banks here.

As soon as the dollar strengthens a bit more my money will go north and I will most likely go south. It's more cost effective and besides I have no desire to ever live north of here again.

To change the immigration rules by law and not have the necessary information readily available as to how that will affect people is really bad.

[Wheels]

I heard that Mago is charging 9.500 pesos to 10,000 pesos for someone to go residente permanente and if you do it yourself it is 4,815 pesos I think that is a little steep

[Chuckles]

After reading all these comments, I guess my property in Panama will increase in value...! I gave up on Chapala 18 months or so ago when the violence got so close...after giving up on Mazatlan, Colima, and Patzcuaro...Bought in Panama, have a nice Pensionado visa with lots of bennies, and I guess after seeing how the US and Arizona treats the Mexican people, whether they are US citizens or not, I really can not blame Mexico for making a little more "professional" for expats (illegals?!) to reside there.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I have no idea who your lawyer is but I'd find another one.

1. If you have an FM3 with less than 4 years, you can go temporal with no financials.

2. If you have 4 or 5 years on an FM3, you can go permanent, no financials.

3. The financial assets are part of the points program which hasn't been written yet.

These facts are all well established.....

As far as cars, that hasn't been written yet so no one knows what it will turn out to be.

First, we do not want to go temporal. Second, I believe my lawyer and her husband (lawyer) know what is required, they certainly do plenty of them. We questioned at first, then were told that the information stated at the INM meeting was incorrect, and was shown several of the current INM/stamped required documents stating what I posted for income and investments.

As far as our car is concerned, she said we could take the chance and not do it. We decided to go ahead and do it. It will probably help with the cops stopping us and wanting mordida all the time for nothing.

[Intercasa]

9,500 to 10,000 is a bit much, we charge $6,600 lowest and up to a bit under $9,000 if you require 12 months officially translated bank statements and to be chauffeured to Guadalajara. There are 2 trips to Guadalajara, perhaps 3 and we can make all but one without you then there is checking back and waiting in line alot which can be a pain in Chapala and is a larger hassle having to do so in Guadalajara.

[satnrose]

After reading all these comments, I guess my property in Panama will increase in value...! I gave up on Chapala 18 months or so ago when the violence got so close...after giving up on Mazatlan, Colima, and Patzcuaro...Bought in Panama, have a nice Pensionado visa with lots of bennies, and I guess after seeing how the US and Arizona treats the Mexican people, whether they are US citizens or not, I really can not blame Mexico for making a little more "professional" for expats (illegals?!) to reside there.

I was at a birthday party in a bar popular with Mexicans and a few foreigners. An inebriated Mexican said something that created a roar of laughter. I asked for a translation and was told "you don't want to know.". Go ahead ....

Mexican joke, "I wish the US would hurry and build that wall and keep the gringos out!". I held up my coke...."salud"

[gringal]

No kidding. Other than that, your post is far too reasonable gringal. It leaves no opportunity for people to panic and get shrill.

ROFLMAO. But Travis, people LIKE to panic and get shrill. Livens up their lives.

[lakeside7]

I was told by an attorney that cars 1985 and older are classified as "antique" and can be Mexican plated free..any clarification on this?

[lcscats]

Person buys slightly used pickup truck in some western U.S state. They drive it to Washington State and the State won't register it as all cars (????) must be Califonia emission standards not 49 state standards. Luckily the dealer took it back. I believe the longest you can keep a foreign plated car in the US is one year. Not sure whether this is state law or federal but the point is we have rules regarding cars and registering them like Mexico has. Time will tell what the rules are down here but I just gave up and bought a mexican vehicle.

[valbogyo]

Yesterday we went to see our lawyer in Ajijic since our old FM'3 expire in two months. She told us that we need to show 36,000mx per month per person for one year for permanent status or have over 1 million pesos each in investments for the year. She told us that the information given out at the meeting was wrong and showed us the INM written/stamped rules. We also would have to nationalize our vehicle - according to the law it has to be at least 6 years old, fortunately ours is 6 years old - the cost is approximately 28,000mx - this includes the person going to the border and Tonala.

She said that there are many here who are unable to show the income/investments necessary - some who are only living on 600USD per month.

We have no other alternative but to go permanent status and to nationalize our car. We are fortunate to have the means to do this, but many do not, and that is a shame.

Since living here we have rescued a fair amount of dogs that we love and would never leave or abandon, so at this time we cannot go back NOB, but as soon as we can we will be leaving.

I attended a seminar, with an IMN official, about 6 weeks ago where a question was asked about couples both having to meet financial requirements. It was said that only one needs to do that and the other could obtain residency as a family member. Not sure if anyone has tried that approach, or if that has to be done from out of the country

It must be so much easier for expats that live near one of the borders as they could just keep leaving and entering renewing their tourist visas

[El Cartero]

Taking this to mean "gringo go home" questions why some came here in the first place. I believe if you are residing here on a permanent basis you should drive a Mexican plated car - just like in any other country. I also believe part time residents should not be able to enjoy the benefits of IMSS. To me people who came here to live cheap and not be part of the country and culture should not be encouraged to stay! Just my opinion.

[Mainecoons]

No kidding. Other than that, your post is far too reasonable gringal. It leaves no opportunity for people to panic and get shrill.

You know, these are the kinds of posts that get threads locked. Not everyone faces the same situations that you two seem so smug about.

It's nice that Gringal was able to get rid of an older car that probably had years of use left in it and lay out another $15K for a new one. Some folks here are not so fortunate.

I was in my financial person's office this morning and I asked her what the reaction to all this is among her many U.S. and Canadian customers is shaping up as. She said a lot of them are pissed and looking seriously at leaving. Now you can scoff at that sentiment all you want but it is certainly beginning to look like our community is dwindling even before all these disincentives were piled on and this is not good for our future, particularly those like us and you, Gringal, who have bought homes here

How would you feel about losing 25 percent or more on what you have spent on your home? Because sure as heck the Mexicans aren't going to pay these prices for property. The slowdown in "new blood" has already resulted in a market flooded with property. It is in our direct interests for people from NOB to keep coming here unless you're also happy to lose many thousands of dollars on your home purchase, if you can sell it at all. I expect that point of view would have a very limited following around town.

There's someone else to be considered here and that are the many, many fine Mexican people who ease our golden years by helping us keep our homes clean and maintained, and all the other things they do at reasonable cost for us. When there was all these concerns about crime and people leaving over it, both our maid and gardeners really wanted to join in the public meetings because they told us quite frankly that the Mexican employers would pay them poorly and treat them badly. If these government bumblers succeed in driving the expats away and discouraging newcomers, these great Mexican folks will be hurt badly.

There's a lot at stake here and scoffing and smugness is pretty insensitive and short sighted IMO.

We'll trade cars too. We're going to lose thousands on a perfectly good car and have to lay out at least as much as Gringal spent because of this. But I sure have a lot of sympathy for those for whom this is really going to hurt and I am really surprised that a country that claims its policy is to encourage retirees seems to be doing so much at the moment to upset them and drive them out.

Just to reiterate what JRM is saying, though, all the reports and the stuff I posted shows clearly, if you have EITHER an FM2 or an FM3, the way to avoid financials is simply to either complete the Temporada period, applying for your renewal WITHIN 30 days of expiration, or if you have the 4 years combined FM2/3, apply for Permanente, AGAIN within the 30 day period before expiration of the current visa.

If you decide to apply before the 30 day period, or to go Permanente early, you will have to provide the financials.

Although that is NOT the topic of this thread, it is good to all be on the same page at least as it applies to this area of the new laws. Surprisingly, my financial gal did not fully understand this.

What was said in Vallarta two days ago was pretty clear. Is it the final policy? Who the hell knows but that in itself is damaging to the expat community. As several above have noted, there are other places nearby that seem to be a great deal more expat friendly these days.

[bwhite1948]

I don't see the aduana's ruling (if indeed it's final) that upsetting; it's pretty close to the rule that was in place for Immigrado, which was a permanent visa status.

However, the confusion that resulted from these changes isn't rightfully blamed to a bunch of nervous expats. The confusion should have been avoided by INM, Aduana, etc. They certainly took their time rolling out these new policies and had plenty of time to get their ducks in a row. But they didn't. They let false information flow from both their local INM offices and INM centro, in Mexico City.

The way they handled these changes is regrettable as it will give some potential expats pause to reconsider Mexico as their final destination...