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Protecting Yourself From Propane Pirates that Plunder Lakeside.


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I stole the topic title from an article in the Guadalajara Reporter from some years ago (sorry).

We have had gas overcharging problems for some time, just didn't know it until recently when hubby pulled out our last 2+ years of receipts and our recent issues detailed in other post about the scams going on with the gas trucks (note plural) here.

I have had one truck come out with one name on it, one week later, another truck with the same guy but a different name on the truck. I have had a truck come out with one name and been given a receipt from another company. Musical chairs style. When I asked about the differences, I was told "All the same company."

Here are some things I think will help you not get ripped off when you get L.P..

For not that much $$, you can have your tank moved from the roof to the ground. Don't worry about the run of copper pipe, it can go a very long way without any problems. This way you can read the gauge yourself. IMO, you will be repaid your outlay in half-dozen fills. Also, again, IMO, you don't need a "contractor," any good plumber can/will do it for probably half of the contractor price. If you need, I'll give you a referral in PM.

You now need to understand how to know how much gas you are getting. Do the following.

Read your gauge carefully right before the gas is put in. Don't tell the delivery person to fill the tank but say a specific number of liters (trust me on this one).

The last time we did this, we had 50 liters put in and the gauge went up 20 points. When you know your before and after tank reading and the number of liters put in, you can see/figure how many liters it takes to bump the gauge up one point. If there is a difference of more than a point or two at the most, make the delivery person bring it up at no cost.

We're not done yet.

It is absolutely critical that you or someone else watch the flow-meter on the truck while the gas is being delivered. The flow meter is very difficult to screw with unless you have an advanced degree from M.I.T.. The driver of one truck told me that the flow meter automatically returns to "0000000" within a few seconds of when the flow stops. Maybe, maybe not, because when we watched the meter on one of our deliveries, the driver made a point to show us how much the flow meter showed, and this took about 10-seconds after the flow stopped. Always watch the flow meter.

Never, never, never accept anything other than a printed receipt that shows the amount delivered AND a time stamp; this way you know it is our delivery. Don't accept "The time stamp is not set right" excuse. Not everyone keeps their receipt and you could be getting a receipt from someone else that shows more gas than you got. Same thing with handwritten receipts - - don't accept. Ask your driver if the printer for the receipts is working before you agree to take gas. If you are told it isn't but he can write you one = == no way! "Come back when it's working."

We had one driver say his flow meter was broken but the printer worked and it was the same thing. I don't know about that, but I do know you have no realistic way to know how much you get without matching a flow meter reading with the printer. Also, the printer is in the cab of the truck, and how many of us will ask to climb into the truck to see the receipt being printed is the one we get?

And if you think we're only talking a few pesos here, think again. You could actually be paying double (I've seen that happen with our neighbor).

Don't worry about the driver feeling he is being insulted by you wanting to check things out. Your driver may be 110% honest (that's 100% plus 10% tax, like NOB) but he knows, just like taxi drivers, others may not have been honest with you and will understand that.

Also understand that not all companies charge the same price per liter for gas. Check around and ask the price before taking the gas (if it matters to you)

Winding down here.

The people I feel really bad for are the older people here who are living alone or the couple that are physically restricted, or who just really are not as sharp as they were maybe 50-years ago; there are a few of those in my area.

Finally, I want to thank hubby for his input for this novella. This is the guy that scampers up the ladder to check our roof tank; he also kills scorpions and other crawly things for me.

Thanks,

Sally

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I always move the gas tank to the ground so I can read it - it's not expensive of a big deal. And you should be keeping your tank free of rust by keeping it painted with rust inhibiting paint periodically Do it when it's almost empty and not too heavy when full of propane - and dangerous as well. I so what. the poster says above and know how many liters the gauge will go up to. I've talked to people who were charged for more litres than their tank even holds.

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Since this has been a point of discussion many times now and it seems to have become a common problem (some people might not even have noticed), I would like to take it a step further as to the reason for this overcharging...

Is this problem really occurring more often than in the past ?

If the answer is no, end of discussion. I personally think that it is.

If the answer is yes..... than, I have more questions :

- have people (the gas delivery guys) become more dishonest now than in the past ??

OR.... are these same gas people being put under pressure (in gathering more money) by other "interest groups" (for you, to fill in) ??

Most of us know what is really going on (I hope).

And it is important to find out why this is happening because finding the cause, just might help bring a solution (or at least, makes us better understand).

Have a great Sunday,

Rony

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This is what I was thinking, you must be the only young person here, most of the population here is old enough to let things just happen.

The people I feel really bad for are the older people here who are living alone or the couple that are physically restricted, or who just really are not as sharp as they were maybe 50-years ago; there are a few of those in my area.

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Since this has been a point of discussion many times now and it seems to have become a common problem (some people might not even have noticed), I would like to take it a step further as to the reason for this overcharging...

Is this problem really occurring more often than in the past ?

If the answer is no, end of discussion. I personally think that it is.

If the answer is yes..... than, I have more questions :

- have people (the gas delivery guys) become more dishonest now than in the past ??

OR.... are these same gas people being put under pressure (in gathering more money) by other "interest groups" (for you, to fill in) ??

Most of us know what is really going on (I hope).

And it is important to find out why this is happening because finding the cause, just might help bring a solution (or at least, makes us better understand).

Have a great Sunday,

Rony

I would suggest the application of a variation of Occams Razor holding that the simplest explanation is the one most likely to be true.

I would apply greed as the simplest explanation.

Or use Robin Hood: "Take from the rich and give to the poor." Overall, there may be thinking that "Gringos are rich (and I am poor), so I take from them.

Gringos can afford it and I need it.

Do I know the above to be fact? Not at all, just variations on Occam's Razor.

Thanks.

Sally

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There is more dishonesty by the lp gas drivers as there is now a competition that did not exist in the past. Zeta was the one and only. Now there are several companies plying the streets looking for your business. I would suspect they are given quotas for the amount of money they must turn in. The guys from Zeta who now work for other companies and were given a higher salary to move know the routes and the customers and have good reputations. This is a great value to the competing companies.

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And you may be right too.

If you think that, despite of many more posts about this and the contents of the title (by the OP), that this is just a few guys making an exta buck,... up to you.

I just do not see how having more competition would bring more dishonesty, expecting quite the opposite (I always thought that a company in a monopoly position gives lousy service). More competition would lower the price, no.. ?

One has to see this "gas situation" as part of an overall context, the harsh reality in Mexico. Who do you believe is really in charge in Mexico ?? And that is the key question that I want to underline.

And Mexican friends deal with the same situation. This is not another anti gringo thing.

There is another rule in Mexico (and in many other countries).... take from the poor and give to the rich. The Mexican Robin Hoods are on a long vacation.

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Have you guys heard of Enron, The Hunts from Texes who tried to corner

the silver market in the 80's or so , or Bernie Madoff in the 2010s or Wall

St . in 2008 which almost brought down the whole world economy, you people

have got to stop thinking that graft and corruption start and end in Mexico.You

people wrote the book on crime and corruption, stop blaming everyone else.

You are not as lily-white as you think. You dodge paying tax coming across

the border, you sign your car from Dakota, you guys pay mordida even when

you know youv'e done nothing wrong, here's a tip don't pay. take your fine

and pay it, then we won't all be forced to pay mordida, stand up for principals

and be proud, if you believe in that famous word Freedom show it .stop blaming

Mexico for taking 25pesos here and there.Hope this makes all you AMERICANS

THINK, before you blame the whole world for your own woes, every country has it's

warts and all you are not any different.

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Have you guys heard of Enron, The Hunts from Texes who tried to corner

the silver market in the 80's or so , or Bernie Madoff in the 2010s or Wall

St . in 2008 which almost brought down the whole world economy, you people

have got to stop thinking that graft and corruption start and end in Mexico.You

people wrote the book on crime and corruption, stop blaming everyone else.

You are not as lily-white as you think. You dodge paying tax coming across

the border, you sign your car from Dakota, you guys pay mordida even when

you know youv'e done nothing wrong, here's a tip don't pay. take your fine

and pay it, then we won't all be forced to pay mordida, stand up for principals

and be proud, if you believe in that famous word Freedom show it .stop blaming

Mexico for taking 25pesos here and there.Hope this makes all you AMERICANS

THINK, before you blame the whole world for your own woes, every country has it's

warts and all you are not any different.

There is a quote: "(“If you were in Rome, live in the Roman way; if you are elsewhere, live as they do there”

We (Visitors, Gringos, whatever you want to call non-Mexicans), are guests in this country. We should not just obey the laws, both codified and cultural, and if there are conflicts, in reality, the cultural will prevail.

If I was in Japan and entering the house of a Japanese family, it would be an insult not to take off my shoes. That is part of the Japanese culture. It won't stand for me to say, "But we don't walk barefooted in someone's house where I come from."

The clear response should be: "If you're not comfortable with abiding by the customs in my country and my house, then you should go to where you feel comfortable."

The mantra for Expats should be: "Leave your NOB customs and values NOB; don't try to change the customs and values of your hosts."

Of course, this is way off-topic so I won't continue.

Thanks

Sally

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Instead of moving the tank you can have a reader ( i do not know what this is called) put in your tank which you can read from your home. I had this put in for peanuts so I can read the % of gas left in the tank before and after a fill.

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Instead of moving the tank you can have a reader ( i do not know what this is called) put in your tank which you can read from your home. I had this put in for peanuts so I can read the % of gas left in the tank before and after a fill.

Excellent idea, thks.
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Instead of moving the tank you can have a reader ( i do not know what this is called) put in your tank which you can read from your home. I had this put in for peanuts so I can read the % of gas left in the tank before and after a fill.

Sue I tried this with one unit and it never worked right. Where did you get yours and what was it?

Thanks.

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for over a decade, we have used Zeta GasLiquado and have an account number with them. We always get the printed receipt and have never been cheated. Service is usually within a couple of hours and with a smile. Our tank is on the roof and we can walk up to check the percentage remaining. The tanks is always filled to 80-85%.

We have no experience with other companies, so cannot comment, other than to note that most of the complaints come from newbies, who may not have much Spanish. Chatting with the drivers helps to develop a pleasant relationship.

By the way, Zeta has a premium program. Our fancy new toaster came from Zeta; gratis. If you use them, stop in to see how many points you have accumulated over the years.

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for over a decade, we have used Zeta GasLiquado and have an account number with them. We always get the printed receipt and have never been cheated. Service is usually within a couple of hours and with a smile. Our tank is on the roof and we can walk up to check the percentage remaining. The tanks is always filled to 80-85%.

We have no experience with other companies, so cannot comment, other than to note that most of the complaints come from newbies, who may not have much Spanish. Chatting with the drivers helps to develop a pleasant relationship.

By the way, Zeta has a premium program. Our fancy new toaster came from Zeta; gratis. If you use them, stop in to see how many points you have accumulated over the years.

Hey, this is great information! I have only had good experience with Zeta and these were the guys that found my propane leak when no one else did.... and fixed it. (Don't ask me what and how.... I don't remember, but I stopped smelling propane and it seems to last forever now) Thanks for the news of the Zeta premium program. I will check into that. Perhaps that is what we need to focus on: recommendations on the fellows who are constantly honest and responsive.

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Thanks RV, we have been using Zeta Gas for over 8 1/2 years now, never knew about the premium program.

They have always greeted us with a smile. They always give us a receipt, our tank is like yours 80-85% filled.

In return, I give both the driver and his helper a propina.

Fox

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I've used Zeta gas most of the time since 1997, and always have had good service.

One time when I saw another truck from a different company on the street I stopped them and asked them if they could fill my tank. To make a long story short I needed about 75% of the size of the tank.

The trouble was that when they handed me the bill, the amount was for 25% more than the total capacity of the tank were it to have been empty which it was not. This was probably in about 2006 and witnessed by my architect and a contractor.

To make a long story short I was writing for the Guadalajara Reporter in those days (Tech Talk) and I had a great topic for a story and the gas company was shamed into coming back and giving me free gas for more than they had shorted me in a tank next door.

You folks have made some great points above. I believe most drivers are honest. But you have got to watch out because there are that few who love to take advantage of that person who doesn't check.

Again I have always had good luck with Zeta Gas

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I've used Zeta for several years without any problems except they often don't come when I call them. I've switched to Milenium and so far (twice) they have been better. They come within a few hours of me calling them. Usually one of us watches the guy filling the tank and the other watches the guy on the truck. I always know within a few liters how much I need. So far that part has always been fine.

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Please keep it simple and avoid making the drivers think that you do not trust them.

Read your meter and know what % you have in the tank. Compute approximately what you will need to get to 80 or 85%.

Only use a truck that you have called; never one that rings your bell or claims to have been sent by someone else.

Have an account with your supplier; we suggest Zeta. They usually come on schecule. Tips are not expected, but are accepted.

Relax and enjoy the process. If you keep changing suppliers, you will never develop a rapport and may be targeted by some as an easy mark. Politeness is paramount in Mexico. Remember that, please. If you act mal educado, you will reap vengaza.

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