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C-21 Immigration Seminar. An interesting point came from it.


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I think there is a lot of agreement that although the new law has many improvements for expats, the income limits are too high and hence are not only counter to the INM law but also, more importantly, counter to Mexico's long standing policy to attract retirees with stable outside incomes as an economic benefit.

We who are here might be given waivers but our communities will probably decline and die out as new retirees go to competing places such as Costa Rica, Guatemala, Belize, Ecuador, Panama and Spain, to name a few.

The question is, how can we as expats respectfully suggest to the right people that this needs further attention? We don't have a lot of say here but that doesn't mean we can't say something appropriately and non-politically.

So some specific ideas as to how to do this would be very appropriate to this discussion IMO. For certain, any representations we might make to public officials should be made from the point of view of reminding them of the long standing national policy and showing them how these income limits are contrary to that policy.

That's my $0.02. :)

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"I strongly disagree with your idea that people who protest unfairness are children. Was Martin Luther King, Jr. a child because he protested unfairness? Adults stand up and let the government know what they think is unfair. That is not being childish and why you feel such a need to belittle people who think something is unfair is unfathomable. Being an adult is not taking a big kick to the behind and not complaining. Turning against your own people and telling them, "tough luck," is something else."

You missed the point, Griffin. You are equating the protest of citizens against their OWN government's actions with NON CITIZENS protesting ANOTHER government's actions. There are diplomatic ways of REQUESTING changes when you are not in the position of DEMANDING them.

About that "contract" assumption: Your visa was a temporary contract, with a beginning and ending date, like a lease to rent and occupy someone Else's property. Each renewal is a new contract. Nobody promised that the terms would always be the same. The landlord (in this case, the Mexican government)can raise the rent or even terminate your tenancy when the lease expires. If you have made improvements and invested money in the property and have your rent increased anyway, your cries of "unfair" won't change things.

In pointing these things out, I am not in any way "turning against my own people". My people are not an homogenous group who all think the same way. Some expats have a sense of entitlement that causes them to think Mexico should change and be just like the U.S., and that spending money here makes them special. Some understand the rewards and risks of moving to a foreign country and accept them. I am one of the latter.

If you become a citizen, then you become a person with the right to protest and try to change things with your vote. I'm assuming you are not a citizen.

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I think the new law states that an immigrant can apply for residency IF they can support themselves comfortably by proof of steady funds available to them, which is logically in the range of 10 or even possibly 5 times the average income per capita that Mexico has now, if it changes so does the financial limits change.

The new rules far exceed that amount of provable income or invested future income required to support an immigrant comfortably IMO. It is not really fair to me when the law should be considered first before the rules are written. Alan

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I think the new law states that an immigrant can apply for residency IF they can support themselves comfortably by proof of steady funds available to them, which is logically in the range of 10 or even possibly as high as 20 times the average income per capita that Mexico has now, if it changes so does the financial limits change.

The new rules far exceed that amount of provable income or invested future income required to support an immigrant comfortably IMO. It is not really fair to me when the law should be considered first before the rules are written. Alan

You have a good point, but if you want to see some really tough rules, check out the requirements to emigrate to Canada (and a number of other countries). I was amazed, appalled....and quickly abandoned the idea. I was thinking the "Sunshine Coast". Not likely.

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Guess I'm a bit puzzled, why does it take 10 times, or as the new rules state, 13X as much for a gringo to live as a MXN? We're all the same species, even the same ethnicity and yet we require 10X as much? Now, I have been fortunate and have that much to spend and so I do, but if push come to shove, there would be no $100 worth of cookies for neighbors etc. at Christmas etc and I could do just fine. Maybe I'm missing something?

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Look at the increase in food stamps in the US or the unemployment rates in the EU. A worldwide recession/depression is underway.

The rising price of oil and rising labor costs in China and the far east are putting MX back in the game.

And do you think that with the overpowerful unions here that the labour costs will remain at the same level ? Think more long term.

And..... as you said, possible recessions NOB..... well, that will have a negative effect on Mexico also.

Again, figures are what they are, just figures.

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We are Canadians who come to Mexico for 50 years for the sole reason . Weather in the winter. So the new rules do not concern us.

I would like to point here that the "Money "is the ruler. The mexican constitution and laws are decent on the paper..... but they are ignored at all levels of this society. They are not enforced and they are very flexible. It always depends.......

For the past 50 years we have been coming, it was always that way and drugs always played its part quietly. You want to change that? Good luck and may the force be with you.

Beautiful day today.

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Guess I'm a bit puzzled, why does it take 10 times, or as the new rules state, 13X as much for a gringo to live as a MXN? We're all the same species, even the same ethnicity and yet we require 10X as much? Now, I have been fortunate and have that much to spend and so I do, but if push come to shove, there would be no $100 worth of cookies for neighbors etc. at Christmas etc and I could do just fine. Maybe I'm missing something?

Well if you read carefully the per capita income I was saying, which could be hard to calculate, as younger families might have 5 people living on one wage.

A retired person is one person in the rules even though a spouse can tramite later after the first spouse has a RP or RT visa with no furture financials required, a good thing IMO if they want. So if the statistics were calculated to say $4400.00 pesos per month, divided by 5 people, that equals $880.00 pesos per person times 10 eguals $8800.00 pesos divided by $12.00 pesos eguals about $773.00 US per month. A fair request, only in my opinion. Alan

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I don't understand the panic over the financials. If you are here, you are covered. If you are coming here, all you need is 6 months of financials that show about $2500 a month coming into an account.

Without going into detail, almost anyone can manage this pretty easily. If they can't figure it out, they probably aren't smart enough to get to MX anyway.

As far as housing etc, if they have the funds to buy here, they meet the requirement easily.

I don't see any big changes because of all this other than the fact that it will make it easier for younger people to come here and work. MX needs better educated people to come here and set up businesses and put people to work and this will help that cause.

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Someone said at breakfast this morning that the immigration people would be at LCS on Friday to answer questions. I don't know the time.

It would be a good time to get answers stright from the people in charge.

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