Mexico to change its name?

[Floradude]

Calderon sent a bill to Congress on to change the constitution to tweak his nation's official name from Estados Unidos Mexicanos, or United States of Mexico, to plain old Mexico.

MEXICO CITY - Mexican President Felipe Calderon has one non-urgent item pending on his agenda in the dying days of his presidency - he wants to change his country's name.

Calderon sent a bill to Congress on Thursday to change the constitution to tweak his nation's official name from Estados Unidos Mexicanos, or United States of Mexico, to plain old Mexico - as the country is already known the world over.

Mexico was given its name of Estados Unidos Mexicanos in the 19th century, when the country's post-revolutionary founders harked to the United States of America as an example of democracy and freedom to follow.

"The name of our country no longer needs to emulate that of other nations," Calderon said. "Forgive me for the expression, but Mexico's name is Mexico."

The country's name is derived from the nomadic Mexica tribe that in 1325 settled present-day Mexico City, which later grew into the imperial Aztec capital before succumbing to Spanish conquerors two centuries later.

Calderon staked his presidency on the much larger issue of fighting the country's drug cartels, and about 60,000 people have died in drug violence during his term. The bloodshed hurt his National Action Party's candidate in a presidential election in July.

He hands Mexico's reins to president-elect Enrique Pena Nieto of the Institutional Revolutionary Party on December 1.

[Mad_Max]

deleted

[Rony]

He already presented this plan, before he became president in 2003 (and other panistas tried in 2007 and 2010). There was not even a vote on this.

A desperate and ridiculous last action by a president on his way out who, after 6 years in office, can only put a shameful final report on the table.

As if Mexico does not have anything else to worry about.

Can you imagine.... reprinting all the money, all official documents,.... It would make a Mexican illegal in his own country if they would not change their voters' cards or birth certificates. What a waste of money.

Like the new immigration law, it just seems like another childish reaction directed against the US (its immigration policy and other,..).

It also makes it more complicated for Mexicans because when they use the name "Mexico", they mean Mexico DF.

Like all over the world, weak leaders resort to populistic measures, desperately trying to win the hearts of people, hitting their nationalistic nerf.

The best of luck to him, trying to convince the nation to have the congress and the senate vote (2/3 majority !) on this, change the constitution and then get the majority of all Mexican states behind this.

Not even worth a discussion.

Amen

Rony, from the "United States of Europe,.... (I wish)"

[bonbon]

Like the new immigration law, it just seems like another childish reaction directed against the US (its immigration policy and other,..).

I have to react to this one, Rony, regarding immigration. It's not against the US. Mexico was very relaxed with its policies allowing long-term visitors to have a pass for 5 years with numerous advantages to foreigners: car licensing from their country, IMSS, come and go as they please, exemption for capital gain, and more. Where else in a civilized country do you get that? Now, with this new law, Mexico is more in accordance with--not only USA--but Canada and Europe. A few years probation time (temporary residence) before accepting foreigners as permanent residents. Mexico has been preparing that change for a while. And I wouldn't be surprised if. one day, the temporary residence would be limited to one term (4 years)--no choice but to become permanent residence or leave after 4 years to return on a visitor's permit (max. 6 months) This could happen.

[Rony]

I have to react to this one, Rony, regarding immigration. It's not against the US. Mexico was very relaxed with its policies allowing long-term visitors to have a pass for 5 years with numerous advantages to foreigners: car licensing from their country, IMSS, come and go as they please, exemption for capital gain, and more. Where else in a civilized country do you get that? Now, with this new law, Mexico is more in accordance with--not only USA--but Canada and Europe. A few years probation time (temporary residence) before accepting foreigners as permanent residents. Mexico has been preparing that change for a while. And I wouldn't be surprised if one day, the temporary residence would be limited to one term--no choice but to become permanent residence or leave to return on a visitor's permit (max. 6 months) This could happen.

Yes, and you might be right too.

After all the years here, as a European, I can not help NOT noticing the almost love/hate relationship Mexico has with the US and maybe even an inferiority complex. A lot of Mexicans (and I am not saying all of them) will not always express their negative feelings directly towards the Americans but they sure do behind their back (talking to me, or otherwise)..... not, what most people like to hear but it is reality.

Now, putting all that in a context.... you can go to any part of the world and there often exists that same kind of tension between neighbouring countries, especially smaller ones towards bigger ones (Belgium towards the Netherlands, the Netherlands towards Germany, Cambodia towards Thailand,.....).

It is in this context and taking into account recent developments (proposal to change the name of the country, .... ) that I get this feeling but again,.... who knows ...

Quite possibly, they might be trying to catch up with the so called developed countries, but they should not forget that they are still far from being a country like Switserland (to name one). I think that it is wiser to compare them to Thailand and the Philipines, where, as an example, income requirements for potential immigrants are far from what Mexico throws in our faces right now.

It is called, learning how to walk before one can run. Mexico is not a developed country yet, but they want to act as if they are. I know that this will provoke hard reactions but is what I strongly believe. They are not fooling me.

In my book, a developed country has a decent school system, shows (more or less) the REAL unemployment figures (and not the ridiculous low figure of 5 % ( not counting anybody who works at least one hour a week), has not thousands of little children working out in the street, does not let its people go hungry while having enough money, is not run by unions that are totally corrupt and rotten and do not care about their worker and takes care of its handicapped and abused animals,.... etc .....

Instead, the people get fiestas, fiestas and fiestas ,... 19th century cardinals that scare them and soccer. Like saying, you all have a good time, while I empty your pockets and tell you what you want to believe, but just stay where you are, in the mud.

Now, with my youthful Alzheimer kicking in, I almost forgot what this thread was all about. Oh yes,.... Mexico to change its name. As I said,.... as if they do not have anything better to think about. Politicians,.... pff... bad everywhere, but worse here.... no goods for nothing

Let us all peacefully have a hot chocolate (with a little bit of rum maybe) and go to bed,.... if the rocket priest is so good to let us sleep. Hasta la vista, baby and buenas nights.

[bonbon]

One way for Mexico to get out of their poverty and become a developed country is to get their revenue (from somewhere) and increase taxes at all levels. How much do we pay for municipal taxes in our area? That is a real joke. How do you expect a country to progress, and a school system to improve with that kind of revenue? They have to start somewhere and sometime. Don't forget that it is a very short time since Mexico is democratic. You don't build a country to the caliber of Switzerland (to take your comparison) within 20 years. It's ridiculous to even mention Switzerland.

I don’t blame the Mexican government at all to hit on the foreigners, as you say, with a little increase of revenue requirements. How much do you think it would cost a foreigner to apply for permanent resident in Switzerland (if they still accept them), Canada and France for that matter? I don't know about Belgium. Many countries do not even accept people if they cannot pay for private health plan. Would it be fair to say that Mexico stands between the Philippines and Canada or the USA? Mexico is improving its immigration law, making it closer to their neighbors to the north. If Mexico does not want to be the brothel of North America, that's what they have to do. That new law will give them more control over criminals hiding in Mexico. Let's not forget this.

FM3 was a real nice gesture on their part that only deprived and poor country can live with nowadays . . . many central American countries, for example. Maybe Thailand or the Philippines would be right for you. And once you live there for a couple of years, you might consider Mexico a paradise.

It would probably suit many people with a low income if Mexico would stay economically like it was 20 years ago. But Mexico is progressing, slowly, but it is.

Come on, Rony, be realistic. You have to compare apples with apples.

[Rony]

oh la la... a lot to say about this, dear Seewee.

First of all, I really do not see how making it difficult for a huge amount of people to come and live in Mexico, would increase their revenues..... just taking into account the loss of employment.

Furthermore, bare in mind, that, due to the economical trouble upnorth, the number of " well off people" that could act as potential immigrants here, is getting smaller by the day.

Most of the damage of this ridiculous new immigration law is actually being done at this particular moment, when people from NOB are deciding to emigrate and retire in another country. A lot of them will think twice about this country, especially taking into account how they fooled a lot of us,.... for many years putting us on a path to immigrado (I have an FM2) and then all of a sudden changing the rules. It is not in the middle of playing cards that you change the rules. I... and many others, feel cheated.... but that is another matter (sorry for the likely spelling mistakes).

Their tax reform needs to come (and Mex leaders agree on this) from the creation of official jobs (instead of informal ones) + the development of a system where they actually pay the taxes (between 3 and 10 %, depending on the source, of the population pays income taxes). ..... And not just out of property taxes.

Do you actually believe that this new immigration law is keeping criminals (on the run) out of Mexico, as if they would be legal here, to begin with ???

The poverty level in Mexico has actually increased,.... so I really do not see how it has become that more developed. Even if you would believe their highly optimistic figures of average yearly economic growth (4 %), that is not nearly enough to create a decent middle class.

With regards to being a developed country, you and I will have to agree to disagree completely and I can only reiterate the points I mentioned before.

I would just talk to a few older Mexicans and ask them how much they think that their economic situation has improved. Do not forget, we are not living in the typical Mexican towns here.

Personally, talking to the people, I do not see ANY economical improvement since I arrived in Guadalajara in 1998..... average monthly salary between 5000 and 10000 pesos is still exactly the same,.... but everything got a lot more expensive.

My comparison with a country like Thailand is accurate, I think... I have lived there for 3 or 4 months and have been there many times. The average income (GDP) is about the same as Mexico´s,... it is a country struggling to become a democracy. Another point on which we differ.... I tend to agree with a European French journalist, who called (in Le Monde) Mexico the perfect dictatorship, but that is a very different discussion.

And with due respect, Seewee, but where you hit the ball completely wrong I think, is assuming that having

"lower income foreigners " living here legally and peacefully (like most of us right now) would turn Mexico into the brothel of North America ???

Strange reasoning to say the least and again, .... about all the above, .... listen to more critical Mexican journalists and talk to older Mexican people and you just mind change your mind about a few things. It would give me a better feeling to be more optimistic about Mexico also but I just can not shut my eyes to the reality. From the morning until the evening, I have my head into the Mexican media and I speak as often Spanish as I do English (I only speak my mother language Dutch to my dog and that is seldom policitally, unless I want to bribe her),... so, it would be hard for me not to see what is really going on. Really no point in being positive for the sake of being positive, without any critical assessment.

Rony

[RVGRINGO]

Rony;

Thanks for putting it so well. Some folks simply wear rose colored glasses, others have enough money not to care about much of anything, or anyone else. I suspect some of the latter may stay here; at least for a while, or until the tint in those glasses fades.

Even if we can figure out how to stay, we definitely have been 'cheated', as you say. In our case, our INM plans have been thwarted three times in a decade. Enough!

[DixieChick]

I've been reading about the new income requirements and the impact it will have on a lot of the Lakeside residents, but I haven't seen a lot of discussion about how this will hurt businesses in the area, some of which are already struggling. There are Americans living all over Mexico, so this doesn't just pertain to the Lakeside area. I'm not sure if the business owners are even aware of the new laws that have gone into effect.

I thought President Calderon's intentions were to make it easier for foreign residents in Mexico, but it seems to be just the opposite. I'm not sure if he set the income requirements or if that was the Mexican Congress, but I don't think this is the result that he intended.

I am NOB and now it's my understanding that you are only allowed 180 days as a visitor per year. So even if I was willing to fly back to the border and spend the money to get another tourist visa, that wouldn't be allowed until the next year. It doesn't matter that I would be putting money into the local economy by paying rent, eating out, going to language school, volunteering as an English instructor, etc. I can not see how this is a win win situation for Mexico.

I agree with Rony that if someone is on the run from the law, they're not going to come into the country legally. I can't believe the immigrants from Guatemala and Honduras are coming in legally either, so the law won't have any effect on them.

I'm sure President Nieto will have a lot of more important things to deal with when he comes into office, but I hope the complaints and concerns about these new laws will be brought to his attention. Does he have the power to override or amend what has been done under Pres. Calderon?

Also, I don't think it's just residents that are lakeside that are concerned. Even in SMA, there are Americans that won't meet the income requirements.

[bournemouth]

This thread seems to have wandered a long way from the original post which is about the possibility of Mexico changing its name.

Could we possibly get back on track?

[bonbon]

Rony;

Thanks for putting it so well. Some folks simply wear rose colored glasses, others have enough money not to care about much of anything, or anyone else. I suspect some of the latter may stay here; at least for a while, or until the tint in those glasses fades.

Even if we can figure out how to stay, we definitely have been 'cheated', as you say. In our case, our INM plans have been thwarted three times in a decade. Enough!

It’s the other way around. The folks with low financial means are the ones wearing rose colored glasses. And it’s good. It helps them to overlook the numerous problems the country they chose is having. Everything is rosy, and they enjoy or pretend to enjoy their new country until the tint of their glasses fades. Then they are the first ones to criticize the country that accepted them.

The folks with money chose to live here, not because they wear rose colored glasses, but because the positive is stronger than the negative for them. Those with money go where they want to go with a clear vision—no tint in those glasses. They don’t have to pretend to anything. When they are no more satisfied, they can go somewhere else.

And there are some folks who wear dark colored glasses and see the government as doing everything wrong, being unfair, being after them etc. You have not been thwarted. You have not been cheated. You see it that way and jumped to conclusion too fast because you don’t understand the process. No one wants you out, but the government doesn’t want new immigrants living on the line of poverty because the country tries to get out of it.

The decisions you have made in the past were only made by you, nobody else. I understand that it is frustration talking, not the real you. I only know you through this forum, but I can see that you are really a different person since this new law came out. I will make a bet that everything will turn out okay for you, and you will wear rose colored glasses again, soon. Of course you won’t accept anything I say, but it’s okay. One day, I hope to be able to tell you (for yourself): I told you so.

I just want to help, not attack anyone. We all have different views and that’s okay. That's what makes this forum interesting. Remember a while back when the other moderator used to control our impulses . . how boring that was!!

Que le vaya bien!!

[AlanMexicali]

Hello DixieChick:

"I am NOB and now it's my understanding that you are only allowed 180 days as a visitor per year. So even if I was willing to fly back to the border and spend the money to get another tourist visa, that wouldn't be allowed until the next year. "

This has been clarified on another forum by a question and answer meeting with all involved in immigration regulations and a PDF file of the many Q&As that was posted by an expat with INM officials in Mazatlan this week and you can stay on an FMM for 180 days and cross over the border for 1 day and return and get a new FMM for another 180 days. Alan

[DixieChick]

Thank you Alan,

I hadn't seen that yet. I will look for that forum.

Dixie Chick

[rufus]

As to changing the name of the country, it is nothing. How many times has it changed before? Before the revolution it was "La Repubica de Mexico." Afterwards it was "Los Estados Unidos de Mexico."

Everything changes, but everything stays the same. The oligarchy of landowners, business people, bankers etc was replaced by the oilgarchy of politicians, unions, caciques etc. Los ricos son los ricos, y los de abajo, ya estan de abajo.

Nothing is as dangerous to a society as unmet rising expectations. Luckily for Mexico, it has the US as a pressure escape valve.

Mexico could never be another Switzerland no more than a goat could be a sheep. It is not in the character of the people.