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Betsy

Immigration Changes & procedures - updated November 18 2012

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Updated November 18, 2012

I found everything I need to know right here and I think most people will. Someone put an awful lot of effort into this , hopefully our local INM office will catch on soon. About the only thing still up in the air is the point system, which has not beeen published yet.

http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/answers-to-common-questions/new-rules-and-procedures-for-immigration-visiting-and-staying-in-mexico/

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It does not sound very good for for those on Social Security under $19,000 month with a house worth less than $195,000 US, unless you are a snowbird and stay no longer than 180 days. Even then, the car issue is not addressed as many of us have FM3s equiv and leave a car at our home here. I, for one, cannot drive back and forth every six months by myself, nor would I want to in the current criminal climate, and the car is almost 14 years old. The idea of breaking down, alone, on the cuota is not very appealing.

What I found interesting is this:

Overview: (Why a New; Law)

The main focus of the new 2011 Ley de Migracion was clearly directed towards improving protections and documenting protections and rules targeted to migrants from Belize, Guatamala, Honduras, etc as they traverse Mexico (on their way north?).

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I don't necessarily believe the new changes have anything to do with anything other than establishing Mexican Visa requirements on par with other countries. Recent travel to Africa required a 3 year visitor Visa in the neighborhood of $300 US and proof of medical coverage was required. Going to Bangladesh will cost us about $400 US each per visit and a stop over in Singapore even more. I think the visa to Indonesia was similarly priced years ago. When we looked into joining my husbands sister and BIL in Sydney for retirement for a couple years the financials were huge and that was with family owning business there and sponsor us as both are citizens of Australia. And I do believe Mexican lawmakers have decided they do not want SS recipients from the US to come as economic refugees. It makes perfect sense given the reduced circumstances from the recent and continuing economic difficulties in the US.

Distressed countries are modifying their requirements http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2235318/Spain-offers-residency-buying-home-worth-130-000-bid-save-housing-market.html

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Agree 100% with Solajijic. The changes are definitely about being on a par with the rest of the world's visa charges.

Same thing with gasoline--Pres. Calderón initiated the monthly price increases to bring Mexico's gasoline prices to par with other countries.

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I don't necessarily believe the new changes have anything to do with anything other than establishing Mexican Visa requirements on par with other countries. Recent travel to Africa required a 3 year visitor Visa in the neighborhood of $300 US and proof of medical coverage was required. Going to Bangladesh will cost us about $400 US each per visit and a stop over in Singapore even more. I think the visa to Indonesia was similarly priced years ago. When we looked into joining my husbands sister and BIL in Sydney for retirement for a couple years the financials were huge and that was with family owning business there and sponsor us as both are citizens of Australia. And I do believe Mexican lawmakers have decided they do not want SS recipients from the US to come as economic refugees. It makes perfect sense given the reduced circumstances from the recent and continuing economic difficulties in the US.

Distressed countries are modifying their requirements http://www.dailymail...ing-market.html

I agree. But no need to buy real estate in Spain if you qualify by income level (25,560 Euros).

www.maec.es/consulados/sanfrancisco

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.....Mexican lawmakers have decided they do not want SS recipients from the US to come as economic refugees. It makes perfect sense given the reduced circumstances from the recent and continuing economic difficulties in the US.

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Studio, here's a thought, why not hop a bus to the border every 6 months, I'm sure the money saved on NOT buying an FM3 will pay for a trip and life goes on, just a thought. Does anyone know the cost of a bus trip to the border? I know what it costs to drive my bus, but I'd hope it's cheaper by the dozen?

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" Overview: (Why a New; Law)

The main focus of the new 2011 Ley de Migracion was clearly directed towards improving protections and documenting protections and rules targeted to migrants from Belize, Guatamala, Honduras, etc as they traverse Mexico (on their way north?)."

There is a lot more to the new immigration laws than we have seen or will ever bother to look at. Most of the changes can be explained here. In English and very easy to read:

http://usmex.ucsd.edu/assets/028/12460.pdf

The changes that have the potential to adversely affect some of us can not be easily explained under the pretext of protecting immigrants.

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Which is why that argument is speculation without much substance. Whereas parity with other countries immigration rules makes more sense but is also speculation.

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Hardly speculative and unsubstantiated... the above link appears to have been published by the INM as an explanation for the "main focus" or the need to change immigration laws in order to protect immigrants from the south and repatriate the large influx of returning nationals. The "new law" probably consists of many hundreds of pages and only a small part of it has been discussed here .

Social security recipients from the U.S. are probably the least of INM's problems but it looks like they could become collateral damage from laws that were designed to protect a larger population.

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Studio, here's a thought, why not hop a bus to the border every 6 months, I'm sure the money saved on NOT buying an FM3 will pay for a trip and life goes on, just a thought. Does anyone know the cost of a bus trip to the border? I know what it costs to drive my bus, but I'd hope it's cheaper by the dozen?

I fly back and forth n/s every six months with a cat--easy to imagine the ways she would manage to get her tail in a knot over bus travel... It's the car I'm up in the air about. It stays here at my under $195 K little casa when I'm NOB for six months. I cannot see myself in a situation where I am forced to drive the car back and forth in order to keep it here. I know, it's a USA thing--I gotta have the car, and at 73, with a cranky spine and a gimp knee, and having been independent for over 40 years, I don't think that attitude is gonna change until either I'm unfit to drive or kick the bucket.

I really don't care about having anything more than a 180 day tourist whatever they will call it as long as the car can stay. I suspect I'm not the only one in this situation. We shall see what happens.

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I fly back and forth every six months with a cat. I can just see the cat getting her tail in a knot over bus travel... It's the car I'm up in the air about. It stays here at my under $195 K little casa when I'm NOB for six months. I cannot see myself in a situation where I am forced to drive the car back and forth in order to keep it here. I know, it's a USA thing--I gotta have the car, and at 73, with a cranky spine, and having been independent for over 40 years, I don't think that attitude is gonna change until I either I'm unfit to drive or kick the bucket.

Not to mention that cats and dogs are not allowed on buses. Tell her that her tail can keep flying!

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There is a lot more to the new immigration laws than we have seen or will ever bother to look at. Most of the changes can be explained here. In English and very easy to read:

http://usmex.ucsd.ed...s/028/12460.pdf

The changes that have the potential to adversely affect some of us can not be easily explained  under the pretext of protecting immigrants.

Oh, I believe that. This in particular excited me. You don't suppose there's anything to a little bit of getting even for the US deportations?

Return migration: 200‐300 thousand events

annually and around 500 thousand

repatriations and deportations by U.S.

authorities.

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" Overview: (Why a New; Law)

The main focus of the new 2011 Ley de Migracion was clearly directed towards improving protections and documenting protections and rules targeted to migrants from Belize, Guatamala, Honduras, etc as they traverse Mexico (on their way north?)."

There is a lot more to the new immigration laws than we have seen or will ever bother to look at. Most of the changes can be explained here. In English and very easy to read:

http://usmex.ucsd.ed...s/028/12460.pdf

The changes that have the potential to adversely affect some of us can not be easily explained under the pretext of protecting immigrants.

The new law is O.K. It states that foreigners need to prove a year's worth of income for food and housing. That isn't hard to do.

It's the administrative rules that are causing the problems. With the new administration coming in and new people placed in the agencies, maybe the financial rules will be rescinded and new rules written. These rules demand far more than what the laws states is required financially and violate the intent of the law.

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Studio, here's a thought, why not hop a bus to the border every 6 months, I'm sure the money saved on NOT buying an FM3 will pay for a trip and life goes on, just a thought. Does anyone know the cost of a bus trip to the border? I know what it costs to drive my bus, but I'd hope it's cheaper by the dozen?

A first class bus ticket, not including 24 hours of meals, is the same price as a Volaris flight from Guadalajara to Tijuana which takes 2 hours and 45 minutes and leaves and returns about 5 times a day.

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A first class bus ticket, not including 24 hours of meals, is the same price as a Volaris flight from Guadalajara to Tijuana which takes 2 hours and 45 minutes and leaves and returns about 5 times a day.
We just did this flight ($107 on special with Interjet, normally $159, great service, all seats business class extra roomy) for the first time to avoid the $380 one way ticket to Phoenix. Bus from the airport to the border is $11 p but we shared a van with four others for $20 p each and it was worth it as the trip was a lot longer than we'd anticipated. The wait at the border was about 2-2.5 hours in the unshaded midday sun. A guy approached us to "facilitate" our crossing for $20 US which was well worth it. You have to walk over the flyover bridge to go to Mexican INM, leave your drivers licenses at the entry booth, then get in one of the lines...instead the guy took us directly to an office where an official at a desk stamped the FMM slip for my FM3 (but I had to tell him which part to return to me) and my friend turned in his tourist FMM. Then back to the booth for the licenses, over the bridge and the guy took us right up to the official who was standing about 30 feet from the border stripe in the pavement. The "propina" for him was apparently included in the $20 US we'd just paid the guy 10 feet before this bottleneck. The official chatted briefly with the facilitator and then waved us past and into the line. I felt like others might protest, but no one did since the official was involved, I suppose. So now we were standing under the covered part of the line and within 10 minutes we were inside the air conditioned building on the other side.

This was in Oct. before the new forms were put into use when returning through the Guad airport. I handed my stub and FM3 to the official as usual but she gave me a fresh FMM form (in Spanish) to go and fill out after she tore the stub off, telling me that the previously stamped exit stub was not acceptable anymore and I could throw it away. From what I've read about what's transpired with folks using the new forms in Nov., you fill one out to leave, they then don't want the stub when you re-enter, so you fill out another new one now. I'm still keeping the stub until I'm in anyway.

I'm just posting this as one option to the long wait you would have to endure in the sun if considering this method for renewing an FMM every six months. Depending on health, frailty, stamina, etc., doing it without paying the "facilitator" might be too difficult for some.

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We just did this flight ($107 on special with Interjet, normally $159, great service, all seats business class extra roomy) for the first time to avoid the $380 one way ticket to Phoenix. Bus from the airport to the border is $11 p but we shared a van with four others for $20 p each and it was worth it as the trip was a lot longer than we'd anticipated. The wait at the border was about 2-2.5 hours in the unshaded midday sun. A guy approached us to "facilitate" our crossing for $20 US which was well worth it. You have to walk over the flyover bridge to go to Mexican INM, leave your drivers licenses at the entry booth, then get in one of the lines...instead the guy took us directly to an office where an official at a desk stamped the FMM slip for my FM3 (but I had to tell him which part to return to me) and my friend turned in his tourist FMM. Then back to the booth for the licenses, over the bridge and the guy took us right up to the official who was standing about 30 feet from the border stripe in the pavement. The "propina" for him was apparently included in the $20 US we'd just paid the guy 10 feet before this bottleneck. The official chatted briefly with the facilitator and then waved us past and into the line. I felt like others might protest, but no one did since the official was involved, I suppose. So now we were standing under the covered part of the line and within 10 minutes we were inside the air conditioned building on the other side.

This was in Oct. before the new forms were put into use when returning through the Guad airport. I handed my stub and FM3 to the official as usual but she gave me a fresh FMM form (in Spanish) to go and fill out after she tore the stub off, telling me that the previously stamped exit stub was not acceptable anymore and I could throw it away. From what I've read about what's transpired with folks using the new forms in Nov., you fill one out to leave, they then don't want the stub when you re-enter, so you fill out another new one now. I'm still keeping the stub until I'm in anyway.

I'm just posting this as one option to the long wait you would have to endure in the sun if considering this method for renewing an FMM every six months. Depending on health, frailty, stamina, etc., doing it without paying the "facilitator" might be too difficult for some.

Another thing to consider is that if they just have to renew a FMM they can turn the old one in at the Mexican Immigration office at the border, cross to the US if they want, then return and take a taxi back to the TJ airport, $150.00 pesos and 20 minutes away, and ask for another FMM there at the INM desk just inside the security check inside the departure salon. I have gotten FMMs there several times. They only want you to go back outside to the payment booth in the airport to get the form and reciept. When I go there the guy does not even ask to see my airline ticket, just fill out the form and pay and show your passport. I show my passport card so they do not stamp my passport. Then you can go to the front of the line at the departure salon, wave to the INM officer and he will wave you in again, very easy.

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Griffin, I'm confused I guess, you said "The new law is O.K. It states that foreigners need to prove a year's worth of income for food and housing. That isn't hard to do" Well, yes, but we need to it in the first and every month which means we're expected to bring in 12 times the average cost.

As far as "collateral damage" - possibly yes, but I'd bet per capita we bring in a whole lot more in revenues.

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Griffin, I'm confused I guess, you said "The new law is O.K. It states that foreigners need to prove a year's worth of income for food and housing. That isn't hard to do" Well, yes, but we need to it in the first and every month which means we're expected to bring in 12 times the average cost.

As far as "collateral damage" - possibly yes, but I'd bet per capita we bring in a whole lot more in revenues.

Maybe I don't understand what you ask asking.

Under the Immigration Act, foreigners are required to prove they have enough money to live in Mexico for one year. That is similar to the previous law.

The new Administrative Rules changed the law. The Rules are supposed to implement the law, how it is put into service, not change it. It doesn't cost what the new rules require to live in Mexico for a year and the new rules are not allowing a combination of assets like the law states. If someone has $20,000 in an account, he didn't need to show any income under the old rules, or if he only receives $800 a month SS, he could show that income and the account and the two proved more money than needed.

The new rules do not allow a combination of property, accounts and income. There is no way it is necessary for someone to own a $195,000 house or have $95,000 in investments or in an account to live in Mexico for a year.

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As far as "collateral damage" - possibly yes, but I'd bet per capita we bring in a whole lot more in revenues.

It doesn't take many senior expats on IMSS, Seguro Popular, or DIF to run up enormous costs that far offset our spending. I think it is an abuse for non-working expats to use any of those three social programs. If we can't pay our own insurance and/or bills we need to stay in our home country. I expect to lose some good friends who will have to go home due to the new requirements, and I will be sorry to lose them, but I think that Mexico should not be a dumping ground for poor Americans.

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It doesn't take many senior expats on IMSS, Seguro Popular, or DIF to run up enormous costs that far offset our spending. I think it is an abuse for non-working expats to use any of those three social programs. If we can't pay our own insurance and/or bills we need to stay in our home country. I expect to lose some good friends who will have to go home due to the new requirements, and I will be sorry to lose them, but I think that Mexico should not be a dumping ground for poor Americans.

Compared to most Mexicans, even "poor" US Americans under the old financial requirements are wealthy, so I don't see how your comment makes much sense. Also, the US for decades has been a "dumping ground" for Mexicans who could not afford insurance or whatever else they needed. That's why they came. With US imigration tightening, this is being curtailed with deportations and you can bet your li'l brown booties the MX gobmint does not take it kindly.

Of course there are abusers of the systems on both sides of the border. That's just a way of life for some. For others it may be a necessity.

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It is interesting getting feed back and valuable information from many other parts of Mexico..and here I thought we are "unique" at Lakeside.. no just another pebble in the pond.

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The latest information I've received indicates that we'll be caught in a Catch-22, which will force us to sell after the mandatory change from 'inmigrante' to 'temporal', then waiting another 4 years to become 'Permanente'. That's not what INM told us, when they suggested we change to 'inmigrante' almost two years ago. We'll probably take a loss in selling and be lucky to afford a dump or worse NOB. If this is the case, we're really screwed, when we figured we had the rest of our lives securely arranged here in Chapala.

If you are thinking of moving to Mexico now, don't, unless you are rich. Anybody need a nice home?

Boy, do I hope the information I received, from another part of Mexico, is completely wrong.

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Guest bigd

It doesn't take many senior expats on IMSS, Seguro Popular, or DIF to run up enormous costs that far offset our spending. I think it is an abuse for non-working expats to use any of those three social programs. If we can't pay our own insurance and/or bills we need to stay in our home country. I expect to lose some good friends who will have to go home due to the new requirements, and I will be sorry to lose them, but I think that Mexico should not be a dumping ground for poor Americans.

I agree we all know that the USA is not a dumping ground for poor Mexicans either

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