New Immigration Laws

[chapalafan]

The laws, policies, and regulations will be interpreted by Mexican officials in the way they see fit for their government. It does not really matter what foreigners think is best or fair, we just need to understand and accept things as they are. The law was not made to punish us or to get rid of us. It is a very comprehensive law which includes more than what is impacting expats at Lakeside. The law might affect some of us in a way we do not like, but that is true of most any law. So, we either find a way to live under the new law or search for other options. But, whining and speculating about unknown variables is a waste of time.

[solajijic]

It doesn't work to look at the small snapshot of the northshore area. There are so many hidden ramifications in the new administrative rules.

Housing at $195K is one option allowed instead of meeting the income requirement. Look at that for a minute. When we arrived here 8 years ago it was the common practice to seriously undervalue housing when it exchanged hands. So you buy a house in 2004 for $250K and the realtors agreed to fudge the numbers for tax purposes. So now you go to get the visa thinking you will use your house value in lieu of monthly income. However to do that you have to tell them that you paid over $195K for the house and show them your settlement papers. Then they will ask why its valued on the books at $125K. What then? Do they accept your offer to pay back tax payments at the real value and assess penalties.

I can think of several other ways the rules will upset some lives here. Its going to be a bumpy ride. We renew in late December.

[rinel]

Will all those that agree that the "sky is falling," please bring any large planks of wood to the lakeside area to be used in building an ARK! We must all be ready to flee back to the USA where you can live in semi poverty on your inadequate social security payments. Mexico, some of you think, only wants the wealthy.....

Actually....most countries would prefer givers rather than takers. Mexico does not need new residents that pay $300.00 into IMSS and take out 10 times as much.

This country is blessed with low taxes and yet many of you are asking for better streets, more honest fawning underpaid police, cheaper electricity, more english speaking locals, restaurants that will serve huge portions below cost, servers who will smile when you don't tip, more residents who think you are cute when you mock the local people and government and lets not forget how you howl over how unsafe it is here....when you could be so much safer in Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles etc and and with no need to show a decent living.

I sure hope CNN with it's eleven viewers will send reporters here to report on this disaster of a country...Mexico isn't even willing to go into debt to let you live here....Oh the humanity...surely GOD will punish this country for not being more welcoming to more visitors.

Fred

You forgot to add (my personal favorite); “Mexico is a war zone”.

Hopefully all of this works itself out in the end and those wanting to live here can continue to do so. Maybe all the negative speculation will make those that disproportionately complain about life in sunny Mexico think twice in the future because they won’t know what they had until they lose it.

G

[Griffin]

It doesn't work to look at the small snapshot of the northshore area. There are so many hidden ramifications in the new administrative rules.

Housing at $195K is one option allowed instead of meeting the income requirement. Look at that for a minute. When we arrived here 8 years ago it was the common practice to seriously undervalue housing when it exchanged hands. So you buy a house in 2004 for $250K and the realtors agreed to fudge the numbers for tax purposes. So now you go to get the visa thinking you will use your house value in lieu of monthly income. However to do that you have to tell them that you paid over $195K for the house and show them your settlement papers. Then they will ask why its valued on the books at $125K. What then? Do they accept your offer to pay back tax payments at the real value and assess penalties.

I can think of several other ways the rules will upset some lives here. Its going to be a bumpy ride. We renew in late December.

That's a real problem for home owners. You have to have a Notario swear to the value of your home and many people lied about the value when paying taxes so when the Notario asks for the tax receipts, the house won't be the actual value of the house and it's too late to go back to what the real value is.

Lakeside property is higher than many other expat enclaves except maybe SMA and Mexico City. The people on Ejido land at the coast can't prove their homes are worth much of anything.

[CSOKI]

When you buy a house the notario looks at an Avalua- appraisal, and then he bases his calculations on that.

This Avalua does not have anything to do with the actual price paid. You have the option to increase this Avalua-,

appraised value, at the time you buy your house in order to save money on taxes when you sell your house.

Out of curiosity, have a look at your property tax receipt.There is an appraised value, Valor Fiscal, of the property to calculate

you property tax.This is not the same as the Avalua . On my house the Valor Fiscal is $2,705,300.00 pesos.

If indeed INM will use some kind of appraised value of a house, it might be this valor fiscal which is readily available.

I.e. your property tax receipt.

[Griffin]

When you buy a house the notario looks at an Avalua- appraisal, and then he bases his calculations on that.

This Avalua does not have anything to do with the actual price paid. You have the option to increase this Avalua-,

appraised value, at the time you buy your house in order to save money on taxes when you sell your house.

Out of curiosity, have a look at your property tax receipt.There is an appraised value, Valor Fiscal, of the property to calculate

you property tax.This is not the same as the Avalua . On my house the Valor Fiscal is $2,705,300.00 pesos.

If indeed INM will use some kind of appraised value of a house, it might be this valor fiscal which is readily available.

I.e. your property tax receipt.

Under the new rules, they only accept a Notario's sworn statement stating the value of the property. It isn't about selling or buying property. I can't swear how the Notario bases his opinion about the value but I bet it is based on supporting documents like the value claimed for taxes.

[Studio del Sol]

I think it is important for everyone to remember that these posts are about what YOU consider to be foreigners: US citizens, Canadians, and a smattering of others.

Mexico did not change its immigration laws with only YOU in mind. There are thousands of foreigners from all over the world who live here--most legally, and some without documents. Yes, the changes will impact you. But please, lumping all foreigners into your personal frame of reference is not only an error, it is also a form of northern North American entitle-itis. To paraphrase another poster: Mexico decides its own policies and laws. Non-Mexicans have to live with them. Many thousands of foreign nationals--foreigners from everywhere in the world--are being affected by the new regulations.

Entitle-itis? Most people I've listened to just want to be able to stay, pay the gardener and maid, contribute time and money to charities, hire plumbers, electricians and handymen to fix things, support the car washers in front of SuperLake and Walmart, and keep the local restaurants and Carlos Slim in business. Oh, and keep their car.

From what I've read, Lakeside has the or one of the most dense populations of "foreigners" in Mexico and most of them are from the US and Canada, though I have met a few cool Aussies. So who are these thousands from somewhere else? I'd like to see some figures. Or are you thinking the emigres from the south, those escaping unfriendly governments to exchange one poverty for another? I don't think the new law applies to them, does it? The few times I've been in the Guad and Chapala immigration offices, most everyone looked pretty white with gray or bottle enhanced hair.

[southernguy]

Here is a good article on Expat population in Mexico written Sept 2012

http://www.pvguide.org/blog/puerto-vallarta´s-expat-population-continues-to-grow/

[Griffin]

Here is a good article on Expat population in Mexico written Sept 2012

http://www.pvguide.o...tinues-to-grow/

Repost the link please. This one doesn't work.

[More Liana]

From what I've read, Lakeside has the or one of the most dense populations of "foreigners" in Mexico and most of them are from the US and Canada, though I have met a few cool Aussies. So who are these thousands from somewhere else? I'd like to see some figures. Or are you thinking the emigres from the south, those escaping unfriendly governments to exchange one poverty for another? I don't think the new law applies to them, does it? The few times I've been in the Guad and Chapala immigration offices, most everyone looked pretty white with gray or bottle enhanced hair.

Although the majority of foreign residents of Mexico comes from the United States and Canada, foreigners living and working in Mexico include thousands of people from Europe--both Eastern and Western--some from Asia, from Africa, and from Central and South America. This foreign population includes university professors, business men and women, and the entire gamut of people who are running their countries' embassies, consulates, and multinational companies located in Mexico. I don't include the Central Americans you mention who pass through Mexico on the way to the American dream.

Here's a document for you: http://www.inegi.org...n_mex.pdf The data you want are in the document. It was written in 2007 based on data from 2000, so the figures are undoubtedly somewhat out of date.

[giltner68]

That link doesn't work either.

[Mainecoons]

Some stuff got tacked onto the end of the link by accident.

This one works:

http://www.inegi.org...extraen_mex.pdf

Fascinating chart on page 9.

[More Liana]

Some stuff got tacked onto the end of the link by accident.

This one works:

http://www.inegi.org...extraen_mex.pdf

Fascinating chart on page 9.

Sorry for screwing up the link in my post. I fixed it. But I don't see a chart on page 9.

[Griffin]

This one is from the 2010 census, 961,121 foreigners in Mexico.

http://www.inegi.org...senotropais.pdf

and,

http://en.wikipedia....ation_to_Mexico

The largest number of Americans outside the United States live in Mexico. According to Mexico 2010 Census, there are 738,103 Americans living in the Mexican Republic. Mostly, people who come from the USA are students, retirees, religious workers (missionaries, pastors, etc.), Mexican-Americans, and spouses of Mexican citizens. A few are professors who come employed by Mexican companies to teach English, other English teachers, and corporate employees and executives.

These residents often don't stay the whole year, with many retirees living half of the year in the USA to keep their retiree benefits, while others, known as "snowbirds", spend only the winter months south of the border. The American community in Mexico is found throughout the country, but there are significant concentrations of U.S. citizens in all the north of Mexico, especially in Tijuana, Mexicali, Los Cabos, San Carlos, Mazatlán, Saltillo, Monterrey and Nuevo Laredo. Also in the central parts of the country such as San Miguel de Allende, Ajijic, Chapala, Mexico City and Cuernavaca, and along the Pacific coast, most especially in the greater Puerto Vallarta area. In the past few years, a growing American community has developed in Mérida, Yucatán.

[bmh]

Looking at the statistic on Immigration, it is obvious that the most peoplet affected are from the US and Canada . The second group will be the Spansih speaking foreigners but they are a small amount in comparaison to the numbers from the Eglish speaking group.

One good think about it it should clean up Chiapas of all the missionaries and human right groups activists and many many flakes...

[southernguy]

Repost the link please. This one doesn't work.

Lets see if this one works

http://tinyurl.com/ccbkqq2

[Griffin]

What we need is someone representing us who will know about all new laws and rules effecting expats who can lobby for us to keep our interests protected.

We could start a fund for Spencer and his federal lawyer buddies to keep an eye on changes and protest any changes that injure us.

If everyone contributed $50 pesos a year, assuming 10,000 foreigners nationwide contributed, that starts it with $50,000 pesos. We can always find more contributors or increase the amount.

That will help to prevent these heart attack moments and it would be well worth it to me. I don't want to go through this trauma ever again.

[Travis]

Quote of the year:

From what I've read, Lakeside has the or one of the most dense populations of "foreigners" in Mexico and most of them are from the US and Canada...

[econ man]

What we need is someone representing us who will know about all new laws and rules effecting expats who can lobby for us to keep our interests protected.

We could start a fund for Spencer and his federal lawyer buddies to keep an eye on changes and protest any changes that injure us.

If everyone contributed $50 pesos a year, assuming 10,000 foreigners nationwide contributed, that starts it with $50,000 pesos. We can always find more contributors or increase the amount.

That will help to prevent these heart attack moments and it would be well worth it to me. I don't want to go through this trauma ever again.

OK, as long as you're not in charge of the money. 50 x 10,000 = 500,000

[Griffin]

OK, as long as you're not in charge of the money. 50 x 10,000 = 500,000

Why would I be in charge of the money? The money is for Spencer to use for his own ability to influence or for him to pay other attorneys. Spencer would be in charge of the money and disburse it.

Yes, I did leave off a zero. My keyboard has gotten where too many keys stick.

[egcallis]

Has anyone heard anything about the new president ditching the new law because it discourages foreigners living here? I ask because I'm not sure we want to get a multi-year document only to have it voided next month when the new president takes office. On the other hand, we would like to save money by getting a multi-year document.

[Mainecoons]

Sorry for screwing up the link in my post. I fixed it. But I don't see a chart on page 9.

Well, the number 9 is on the lower right hand corner of the page. Maybe there is more than one page 9?

What I found interesting about the chart is that it shows there are more Russians here in Mexico than Canadians, if I read it correctly.

[Studio del Sol]

Thanks for the chart, etc. What I suspected. US and Canadian with some Russians (where are they BTW) are the majority of expats, some living permanently, some snowbirds (I'm one of those), and then the shiploads of US tourists. So I hope we don't hear more of this "entitlement" business. If push comes to shove, and it doesn't look good for some of us, we should make our voices heard, loud and clear. This is not politics for you nervous nellies, it's economics pure and simple. I kinda wonder how an exodus will affect Carlos Slim's profits. Maybe not too much. Probably the little guy who will get hurt the most.

I think it is off the map to think 100,000 foreigners would contribute pesos to a fund --for a what, lawsuit?-- unless it was very highly organized with goals and benefits well stated.

There are just too many free-loaders, sheep, and those who will work around the law no matter what. People like me can sell their casitas and leave. Tourists will keep coming regardless. The airlines and cruise ships will work it so they can.

Until we know what is really going to happen, if that is even possible in Mexico, I think we should cool our jets.

[RVGRINGO]

Even if the INM situation gets 'fixed' immediately, what has transpired since the signing of the law, and the long delayed development and implementation of still incomplete rules, will certainly slow down the flow of new retirees and even casual tourists. Trust has been lost and it is something that is difficult to regain.

[giltner68]

This last year when everyone was concerned about the increasing violence I told someone "that's why I don't own a house here, if things turn bad, I grab the cat and the computer and I'm in Laredo in 11 hours or less, leaving nothing of value behind" - with these new events unfolding, I see no reason to alter my escape hatch. Now, if I could get a Permanent status I'd do it, but the escape hatch remains in place in any event. Fortunately my five years on FM3 doesn't end until next September and we can only hope things will be more defined by then - or not, this is Mexico.