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viejomalogato

To speak English

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I think you misread the post. I believe the "there just aren't any excuses for not learning the basics" comment was directed toward those of us from NOB who make no attempt to learn Spanish.

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I think you misread the post. I believe the "there just aren't any excuses for not learning the basics" comment was directed toward those of us from NOB who make no attempt to learn Spanish.

I'll think about that, but after three readings, it still sounds to me like it was the other way around.

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a person in their late 70s should not have to learn a language. (its disrespectful the way some people treated this member, but these people disrespect themselves).

Who made up this stupid rule-If a person in their late 70's is going to live in a foreign country- they should not expect special treatment - learn the language of the country or Go Home!

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More Liana, it was obvious to me that RVGringo was criticizing people from NOB for not learning basic Spanish. And I agree with him completely.

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More Liana, it was obvious to me that RVGringo was criticizing people from NOB for not learning basic Spanish. And I agree with him completely.

Hmm, maybe I need to learn English.

OK, I give. Sorry, RVGringo, I was wrong.

I'm going to leave my post up, though, because I think it makes some important points about why Mexican Spanish-speakers might not learn English.

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Who made up this stupid rule-If a person in their late 70's is going to live in a foreign country- they should not expect special treatment - learn the language of the country or Go Home!

Sorry, cannot agree Privado (although I appreciate your point about not expecting special treatment). If we'd enforced that rule in the US we'd have sent a lot of first generation immigrants back to where they came from (and have become a less diverse and vibrant society in the process). Many immigrant communities - even now - have maintained a certain insularity (Chinatown, Little Tokyo. Germantown, etc), while their children or second generation became more rapidly assimilated and acted as a bridge to the wider society). My wife's mother (94) has been in the US for nearly 40 years, speaks only very basic English but functions quite nicely in her own language and culture as well as the language of the Nursing Home where she stays and which she learned growing up under colonial rule.

I'm not saying don't try or don't learn. That's an individual choice. I have lived in several countries for lengthy periods (nearly 20 years total) and speak two Asian languages with some fluency and one European language (alas not Spanish) at a basic conversational level. Spanish is probably the easiest language I've attempted but I sometimes feel that the language portion of my brain is already over capacity.

Hasn't this thread been a bit overworked. I know I've seen the same arguments regulary over the four or so years I've been on this Board. Let's discuss something new like whether or not it's safe to live here.

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if spanish was a necessary requirement, the entire "retire to mexico" industry would fall apart. real-estate places would close, nursing homes, etc. SO, who is correct? the corporations who thrive on the senior industry? they never ever talk about this in the seminars. its an absurd concept to learn spanish @ say 75 yrs old. & why SHOULD anyone have too? now, if you really do believe this, then try to stop the retirement industry from lying to mr. & mrs. kansas. go to the source of the industry & protest. & what is the REAL purpose of your "seniors learning spanish" idea? is it for the convenience of the retirees? OR is it for the benefit of the mexicans? this is left wing multi cultural self loathing nonsense, but guess what? industry makes the rules, & the masses get stuck in the middle. ok now go protest the walmart sign, & while you are @ it, speak spanish. (oregonduck's post is correct).

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Sorry Privado, I think I may have misunderstood the intent of your post. Like More Liana, I think I need to work on my English. I still stand by the opinions in my post - just not in direct response to Privado.

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Too funny. The GOP are trying to pass a bill now stating English only and that means no one in government is to speak anything but English if asked even if they know another language. No wonder Obama's support with Hispanics is 74% vs Romney at 22%.

And some want Mexicans in their country to speak English. lmao

Where did you read that? That is news to me. I worked in government for more than thirty years, and we always spoke the language that the situation dictated when and if possible.

El partido republicano es una carpa gigantesca; hay campo para todos.

Rufus

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Indeed. Such a law would clearly hamstring those US government agencies that deal with foreigners in other languages: the State Department, Peace Corps, USAID, ICE , Border Patrol - even the CIA - and the list goes on. Unintended consequences?

(I was hoping this thread would die quietly, but alas I keep getting sucked back into the fray.)

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Not just foreigners, but some indiginous people. My mother in law was born, lived and died in the US, but she never really learned English. Spanish worked fine for her. Remember, they didn't come to the US, it came to them.

Rufus

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Sorry Privado, I think I may have misunderstood the intent of your post. Like More Liana, I think I need to work on my English. I still stand by the opinions in my post - just not in direct response to Privado.

Thank you, my response was directed only at the previous poster- who's post I quoted-and the attitude that Mexicans need to speak English because we are providing them a salary by living here.

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Where did you read that? That is news to me. I worked in government for more than thirty years, and we always spoke the language that the situation dictated when and if possible.

El partido republicano es una carpa gigantesca; hay campo para todos.

Rufus

http://leanforward.msnbc.com/_news/2012/08/02/13091701-watch-rep-john-conyers-delivers-spanish-argument-at-hearing-on-gops-english-only-bill

Not such a big tent afterall.

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privado, why do you hate your own so much? senior life is not "going home". senior industry is thriving in mexico, like senior travel. look @ all the work there is for interpreters! i don't expect anyone to speak english, especially if the advertisement says "english spoken". but it is useful for us to know some basic words. (for the p/t maid & gardener). for legal/medical, 100% english is needed.

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http://leanforward.m...glish-only-bill

Not such a big tent afterall.

Why don't you try a source that isn't so blatantly biased?

http://www.languagep...ves/langleg.htm

Generally speaking, it would amend the U.S. Code in the following ways:
  • English would be designated the official language of the U.S. government – indeed, the only language that federal employees and officials, including members of Congress, would be permitted to use for most government business.
  • The English Only mandate would extend to federal "actions, documents, policies ... publications, income tax forms, informational materials," records, proceedings, letters to citizens – indeed, to any form of written communication on behalf of the U.S. government.
  • Exceptions to the ban on federal use of other languages would be permitted for purposes that include national security, international trade and diplomacy, public health and safety, criminal proceedings, language teaching, certain handicapped programs, and the preservation of Native American languages.
  • An "entitlement" would be created, ensuring the "right" of every person to communicate with the federal government in English – in effect, a guaranteee of language rights, but for English speakers only.
  • Civil lawsuits to enforce the law would be permitted by persons claiming to have been "injured by a violation" of it – a "right of action" that could give virtually any taxpayer the standing to sue in federal court.
  • Naturalization ceremonies would be specifically restricted to English only.
  • Bilingual provisions of the Voting Rights Act, which guarantee minority-language voting materials in certain jurisdictions, would be repealed.

How much of that actually differs from the practice of the Mexican government? From visas to wills to house papers to drivers licenses to CFE, every dealing with government we've had here has been in written and verbal Spanish. Pretty much the same with our medical dealings.

The proposal in this case is to present a proposed Constitutional Amendment to the states for rejection or ratification. Realistically speaking, it is more political theater than anything. There was just an election here and I seem to recall a fair amount of hot air and posturing as well.

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. Realistically speaking, it (English only law) is more political theater than anything.

Need we say more?

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Why don't you try a source that isn't so blatantly biased?

Actually tried to find a more mainstream source,..to no avail. No one seems to take any of this seriously, including Rep. John Conyers. Afterall, the U.S. is a democratic society which, in many ways, makes an attempt to serve its citizenry in a helpful and rational manner. Multilingualism is accepted in most Western societies (Canada and the European Union easily come to mind).

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Glad I could take care of finding a better source for you. :)

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why the government of any country should be expected to carry out routine business with its citizens in multitudinous languages. I like the way they do it here. I know just what to expect language wise when I deal with the Mexican government and I take help along if I think I'm going to need it. I sure don't expect them to speak my language and am always pleased and grateful when some of them do.

For example, those lovely folks in our new Chapala immigration office. :)

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Has every one on this board lost their mind? This whole thing was started because the OP thought that everyone in Mexico could speak English, no matter how remote or small the town. Having that thought, it was obvious to the OP that the people who didn't speak English to him were doing it out of spite. Folks, if you are that far out of touch with reality, nothing is going to make a dent in your thinking, certainly not logic or reason. How did this thread get this far out in left field? Why bring politics into the conversation? It's an election year. Most of the things one party or the other are purposing are to gain support for their side. They are not really going to make those things laws, or even try. This thread is now pointless.

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Has every one on this board lost their mind?

Well, now that you ask . . . . :wacko:

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Has every one on this board lost their mind? This whole thing was started because the OP thought that everyone in Mexico could speak English, no matter how remote or small the town. Having that thought, it was obvious to the OP that the people who didn't speak English to him were doing it out of spite. Folks, if you are that far out of touch with reality, nothing is going to make a dent in your thinking, certainly not logic or reason. How did this thread get this far out in left field? Why bring politics into the conversation? It's an election year. Most of the things one party or the other are purposing are to gain support for their side. They are not really going to make those things laws, or even try. This thread is now pointless.

I know but its entertainment!

A mind--its a terrible thing to waste! :)

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I know but its entertainment!

A mind--its a terrible thing to waste! :)

or LOSE!!

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jaykay for once i agree w/you. so simple: people in small towns w/little education usually are not bi lingual. yes sometimes teenagers do speak english & they play around. (especially if they don't want to help you). but in general, you won't find much english in the groceria in joco. possibly a deported returnee. OK, wasn't that easy? thread is now dead.

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Not dead yet

Old bad cat ---Coming from Salinas, Gonzalez ,Gilroy etc which historically has one of the largest Hispanic populations in Calif and Not Speaking Basic Spanish, as matter of business in whatever occupation or job you were engaged in, is far More Insulting than the lack of English speakers in a small groceria in San Juan Cosela. Perhaps it was just your Pride, Obstinacy or Stupidity.

The State of California has taught Spanish in Jr.high schools, High schools, Community colleges, Adult Education and Universities for the last 60 years. I took my 1st Spanish class at age 12 in LA’s suburban San Fernando Valley. That you chose throughout your lifetime not to take the time or opportunity to study and speak even basic Spanish is appalling, considering where you lived.

When you retired to a tiny, poor rural pueblo in Mexico, It boggles the mind, that you assumed the local people would Oblige you and your Needs- when you had an entire lifetime to prepare yourself to speak at least conversational Spanish.

PS for Manny- Read Alex's reply on this topic-

learning a foreign language is the best way to improve and maintain your memory for senior citizens

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