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Mexican Protests.. Largest World Has Seen


Ajijic

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Then again some get their news from FIX news and you only consider that as a source so most of everything not "reliable". It is Facebook, You Tube, Twitter etc that is the news in Egypt and many other countries and in them it is the students who started the protests and communicated. FYI in Mexico the protests include many more than students including the ones in Guadalajara just a few km away.

This Fox story reports that the Mexican media is largely ignoring the protests and that U. S. diplomats stationed in Mexico have said privately that the PRI has bought those outlets off. The reportage NOB seems about like the usual attention given to foreign demonstrations.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/lifestyle/2012/07/10/mexicans-loudly-protest-election-results-mass-media-quiet/

Tens of thousands of protestors took to the streets in cities throughout Mexico the day after presidential elections declared Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) candidate, Enrique Peña Nieto, the winner, and yet the news media has been largely quiet.

The Zocalo in Mexico City is a popular place – hosting everything from Aztec ceremonies during pre-Hispanic times to a recent Justin Bieber concert - it is also one of the most popular gathering places for protests. Which is what happened on July 7th after Mexico's contested presidential election returned power to the PRI – a party that ruled Mexico for more than 70 consecutive years, and was known for corruption and repression.

Protestors allege that vote-buying, an illegal act in Mexico, is responsible for the 7 percentage point win for the PRI, a charge that PRI officials deny despite various accounts from individuals who claim the PRI gave them gift cards and food in exchange for their vote, and in the face of photo and video evidence lending credibility to these claims.

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JRPJR is this a joke?

If not, it should be. Not to mention it contradicts itself. First it alleges that the PRI is going to end the drug war by cutting a deal which obviously would have to include an end to the public violence and collateral damage and then it says the expats are all going to leave after that happens?

I wonder what Ms. Kellaway really said to these people.

Holy smokes!

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1. "Vote buying"- People are still free in Mexico. They can get presents from PRI and still vote for another party. There is plenty of vote buying in the U.S.

2. Can't we just relax? No one is terrorising expats. Right? Things may get calmer with the new president.

3. Corruption is a huge problem indeed. It comes down from the government and poisons all institutions and cripples businesses. But it was the same 10 years ago and people were still moving to Mexico to live.

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Just to lighten things up a bit you might want to take a look at this "thoughtful" example of foreign reporting on the effect of the recent elections on those of us living in the Lakeside area. I found the concluding sentence to be of particular import.

http://www.theaustra...6-1226413851115

The link does not work well so I'll paste the story here - please read through to the end.

The Times

  • July 02, 2012 12:00AM


FOR many wealthy expatriates living in Mexico, the prospect of a victory overnight for the youthful presidential candidate Enrique Pena Nieto is their cue to leave for home.

They regard the election as opening the door to a return of institutional corruption and greater influence for the drug cartels that have been associated with his party in the past.

Critics say the Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI), which "contained" rather than confronted the drug gangs when their power was growing in the 1990s, employed cartel thugs to intimidate rivals during the campaign.

They believe the "old men" who really control the party are negotiating a deal that may formally end the drug wars, which have claimed 55,000 lives since 2006, but would leave many kingpins of the narcotics trade safe.

Mr Pena Nieto, 45, who has been vague on his security policies but wishes to replace the army with a stronger federal police force, may claim "mission accomplished" but drug exports are unlikely to fall.

Some observers fear his policy will provoke a spiral of violence as cartel bosses fight to safeguard their territories.

"It's a moral dilemma. A deal would make the last six years of bloodshed a grotesque waste of life," said a former FBI agent who now lives in Guadalajara.

Until recently, Mexico's second-biggest city had been largely immune to the violence. It may have been off-limits to the executioners because of its large number of expatriates.

Guadalajara's prosperous lakeside enclaves of Chapala and Ajijic boast a Walmart, sports bars showing Sky TV, and a branch of HSBC for the 25,000, mostly elderly, foreign residents.

But since May, when 18 dismembered bodies were found inside two vans near Chapala, victims of the notorious Zeta cartel, violence has gripped the "cities of the silver-haired gringos".

In recent weeks there have been fatal shootings in Ajijic's pretty square and a mounting toll of teenagers snatched off the street, dismembered and dumped by the Zeta gang.

"The 18 bodies were only the beginning," said Elaine Kellaway, 55, a Glasgow-born entrepreneur who owns the Ajijic Suites hotel. She recently considered buying a gun. She pointed at a quiet back street called Zaragosa, which runs from a church to the cemetery. "We were having one or two funerals every day along this street. Now the women gather there every night to pray for peace."

Other Mexican cities have lost their expat communities overnight. In Monterrey, Zeta executioners arrived last year. Last month, 49 mutilated bodies were found dumped by a roadside in the city, all of them decapitated.

Fearful expats are taking to a website, chapala.com, to share tips on how not to be kidnapped, butchered, or sell at a loss.

The Sunday Times




- wealthy because we have a Walmart, an HSBC and a few sportsbar here ??

- expats leaving because of EPN,..... I thought exactly the opposite

- Guadalajara.... a large number of expats (?? I can walk there 3 days in a row without seeing another expat) and that would scare away the narcos ??? That really makes me laugh.

- RECENT (weeks) shoot outs in Ajijic plaza ??

I hope that the author was drunk, because if not,.... time to consider a career change. And this is the Sunday Times ??

Maybe it is time for me for the fatal poison drink.

And I know that some people will really hate me for this,.... but implying that this is just because of a few bad losers and comparing it to the past (as if this is like in 2006), just shows a great lack of understanding, knowledge and/or blindness for what is out there.

And.... trampampam,.... what is happening right now is not really about us, we are just talking about it and (in my case), wondering about the strange (or lack of it) national and international coverage (apart from Al Jazeera) of it...

Lucily, there is still Mexican Radio Imagen, French newspaper Le Monde, AL Jazeera, You Tube and the Mexican people.... so it it hard to ignore the reality (so, if you want good witnesses, try a little harder, they are outthere..... yet, some people prefer to downplay and a lot of media (for some reason) don´t want the world to see.

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It's just an opinion, Mainecoons.

It's not an editorial. It is written like it were a credible article complete with quotes from interviews. Do you find it to be a credible piece? Do you think that if the narcos went back underground and most of the murder, extortion and kidnapping ended, for any reason, that expats would be more likely to leave or stay?

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Well for all the outpouring and hand wringing , the Pesos is strong and the dollar is tanking...now you are going to make excuses for the dollar and blame the euro crisis!!!!

And can you explain to me what the "strength" of the peso has got to do with most media not covering protests ?? Of course, if people don´t know what is really happening, how can that effect a currency ?

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Yes, and tourism is on track to set a record this year. Mexico has been acknowledged as one of the 10 most fiscally sound democracies in the world.

The official tourism figures.... well, we have at least one person who believes them (and that is exactly the person who is always looking for FACTS).

Go and tell your "hooray" story to the many more millions that live in poverty here.... (by the way, fiscally sound, maybe,.... one wonders why,..... but a democracy ??? you must be kidding...)

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Question.

Does IFE have any teeth at all? Or is it just another part of the larger problem? Is that institution just more hocus-pocus?

If anybody has a decent link regarding their real role and effectiveness in the process, that'd be great.

PURE ANECDOTAL INFO: Had lunch today with a friend who lives in Guadalajara. We share a mutual friend who I hadn't seen in a while, and we were talking about the election. The mutual friend is/was a President at one of the casillas in the city, so he was at the casilla all day. The friend I had lunch with today basically insists "the election was clean enough....the country needs to move on and not torture the results to the point of humiliation worldwide". But our friend in common, who ran the casilla, does not share the same opinion about the validity of the results. Friend who ran the casilla is convinced there was widespread fraud (though not in "his" casilla).

So there's a little more wood for the fire!

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Will repost the fiscal responsibility link tomorrow, gotta go watch the premier of "Breaking Bad."

BTW elbel, the GDL Reporter has the tourism story. And where are your facts? You're right, I do have better things to do than constantly tearing this country down. And "believing" there was sufficient fraud to steal this election is a great deal different than "proving" it.

:)

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Will repost the fiscal responsibility link tomorrow, gotta go watch the premier of "Breaking Bad."

BTW elbel, the GDL Reporter has the tourism story. And where are your facts? You're right, I do have better things to do than constantly tearing this country down. And "believing" there was sufficient fraud to steal this election is a great deal different than "proving" it.

:)

Believe me, ...not wanting to see and accept what is outthere and at the same time (where you are contradicting yourself) uncritically swallowing government figures does far more harm to this country , ... a country that is fighting its way to get on the right track.

You can not cure a disease, if you refuse to acknowledge its presence first, and sometimes you just have to trust the doctors (but not the politicians)....

Goodnight to you all, anyway.

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Threads on this board get closed when the participants start to engage in personal commentary instead of sticking to the issues.

You're right, I'm a skeptic when someone posts a thread claiming "largest demonstrations ever" and then the PRD controlled government of the City of Mexico admits the demonstrations attracted 50,000 partisans, hardly befitting the title.

In this election, a lot of wild charges are being thrown around by a fellow who seems to have a habit of contesting every election he loses, no matter how large the spread. You might want to be a little more skeptical about people who take scattered reports of election problems and blow that into claims of 5 million votes bought all over Mexico but have not as of yet really provide a plausible scenario as to how that could really have been accomplished.

You might want to wait until we see what the claimants can actually produce in the way of hard evidence before you make up your mind.

I am not a citizen. You are not a citizen. It is not our job or right to impose our opinions of what the "right track" for Mexico is. Maybe if you cooled off a bit you might notice that in some respects, the country is on a positive track, such as the documented fact that it is not borrowing and spending wantonly like its neighbor to the north or many of the European countries. You might notice the rapid growth of the Mexican middle class, you might notice all the road and infrastructure improvements just in the 5 years we've been here, you might notice the improvements going on all around you. You might notice the great attitude and happiness of the majority of the people here.

Yes, there's a lot of poverty and problems here as well. This isn't Belgium. If you can't live with that, you probably need to return to Belgium. While you're here, however, you might want to try and develop a little more positive attitude about Mexico.

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JRPJR is this a joke?

If not, it should be. Not to mention it contradicts itself. First it alleges that the PRI is going to end the drug war by cutting a deal which obviously would have to include an end to the public violence and collateral damage and then it says the expats are all going to leave after that happens?

I wonder what Ms. Kellaway really said to these people.

Holy smokes!

If you click on the link which doesn't give you access to the entire story it will at least show you that is is a news story from The Australian which I believe is reprinted from The Times of London. You may also search for Ajijic on the Google news page for a link to the whole story. Really bad story filled with lots of false and misleading information.

And for those of who think that all conservatives blindly follow Rupert Murdoch and News Corp, I am disclosing to you that both of these news outlets are owned by News Corp and that I think the article is a journalistic disgrace!

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Threads on this board get closed when the participants start to engage in personal commentary instead of sticking to the issues.

You're right, I'm a skeptic when someone posts a thread claiming "largest demonstrations ever" and then the PRD controlled government of the City of Mexico admits the demonstrations attracted 50,000 partisans, hardly befitting the title.

In this election, a lot of wild charges are being thrown around by a fellow who seems to have a habit of contesting every election he loses, no matter how large the spread. You might want to be a little more skeptical about people who take scattered reports of election problems and blow that into claims of 5 million votes bought all over Mexico but have not as of yet really provide a plausible scenario as to how that could really have been accomplished.

You might want to wait until we see what the claimants can actually produce in the way of hard evidence before you make up your mind.

I am not a citizen. You are not a citizen. It is not our job or right to impose our opinions of what the "right track" for Mexico is. Maybe if you cooled off a bit you might notice that in some respects, the country is on a positive track, such as the documented fact that it is not borrowing and spending wantonly like its neighbor to the north or many of the European countries. You might notice the rapid growth of the Mexican middle class, you might notice all the road and infrastructure improvements just in the 5 years we've been here, you might notice the improvements going on all around you. You might notice the great attitude and happiness of the majority of the people here.

Yes, there's a lot of poverty and problems here as well. This isn't Belgium. If you can't live with that, you probably need to return to Belgium. While you're here, however, you might want to try and develop a little more positive attitude about Mexico.

Hi Mainecoons,

Thank you for being concerned about where I should live.

- Freedom of expression, amigo (also in Mexico), .... is not the same as being involved in politics

- The "who is positve and who is negative" simplistic approach is getting old, ... more like kindergarten stuff,.... (and I am not getting too much into that because I don´t want to be in a position that I have to proof who I am.... a lot of people know me)

- There is always the same old reaction when one runs out of arguments... you tell the person to leave, .... that doesn´t make for much intellectual discussion either.

- You seem to mix up a strong discussion and getting personal..... and maybe one should reread all the above to see who really gets personal (any reader can draw her/his conclusion).

What I find interesting in all these discussions about Mexico that the people (and that does not include me) who are really Mexican on this webboard bring about the best arguments,.... and that is because they know a lot better what is going on here. It really takes a very good Spanish speaker (who is interested in political and social issues) to understand Mexico (it is a fascinating and very interesting country). A lot of other people desperately try to have their say and stubbornly push their opinions but, they don´t get much further than cheap travel guide book information, and it really becomes a childish who is right and who is wrong game.

Furthermore, I am a firm believer that only by directly using the available (censored or not) media sources that you can really TRY to understand the current situation (sources, as I stated earlier.... in my opinion :

- Mexican radio Imagen (a little too much PAN but not too bad and very critical)

- Even more interesting are the Mexican (on line) newspapers readers´ reactions and compare them to get a good idea (since the newspapers themselves... well, .....)

. Talking to educated Mexicans who will not tell what you want to hear.

- and of course You Tube, Twitter and Facebook (but the Mexican ones)

- CNN en español : Aristegui is a pretty good journalist and a very outspoken woman.... muy interesante

- MORE then just a few years of living (and working) here helps also

- and yes, every once in a while the Anglo Saxon press has a good article (like the 9 pages one, July 2nd in the New York times),.... but not too often

.... and so much more

Mainecoons,... I really have nothing against you personally (and I couldn´t since I don´t really know you)..... and to make you feel better, I will be glad now to let you have the last word on it (let me correct that.... I will do my best,.... also... so that other people can have their say ).

Rony

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At this point in time, the only opinion that is going to count is the one of the court that is going to hear this complaint. Your opinion or my opinion means less than nothing siince we are not citizens.

As for where you live, I could care less. I'm just pointing out that if you can't accept Mexico for what it is, and see the good along with the bad, you're probably in the wrong place.

Can't imagine why you have such a charge on about this but I respectfully suggest you get over it and enjoy the good side of life here.

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IFE came to the conclusion that the PRD did not make its case according to a report in this weeks's Guadalajara Reporter. Not sure if there is a separate court action as well, do you know, Ajijic?

Plus when you add up the PRI and PAN vote, two thirds of the country did not want to elect Sr. Obrador or the PRD. I really doubt that PRD supporters taking to the streets is going to change the outcome here. This whole situation, however, really argues for the provision of a runoff election between the top two vote getters.

These days when I look at the news, I keep seeing that old Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times." :)

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Mainecoons, I think you got the math wrong in your calculations. The recent election represents an overwhelming repudiation of the policies of the right-wing PAN party. Consider that the PRD is an offshoot of the PRI. The PRI is a left-of-center party and the PRD is even farther to the left than that. To most Mexicans, this election was a referendum on the policies of the Panistas. The combined PRI and PRD total shows that roughly 70% of the electorate voted to repudiate those policies.

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Hilarious. Not a rigged election, referendum on pan. Pri had an easy sell with the "tourists".

Pan sold out, 80% of mexican's support military action, the pan referendum was against a woman candidate, pri bought millions of votes and the media. Period. I do not know why mexican's know what is going on but the "tourists" do not. I say tourists as most do not want to bother themselves becoming citizens and vote. Do not want to actually become a part of the country and vote then why does it matter to you?

We mexican's voted in a horribly flawed election and are upset that our votes had virtually nothing to do with the outcome. Accept it. To us participating in our country is not reading about it on msnbc, it's voting and being involved.

I'm sure this will be deleted, fine, at least I said it.

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Well, Alex, you're the first who has suggested that PRI voters are more like PRD voters than PAN voters but if that is the case, your analysis is correct.

Wiki describes the history of the PRD thusly. If this is correct, it would appear that the PRD was joined by leftists from the PRI and those further to the left. Today's PRI strikes me as more centrist and PAN to the right of that. If my impression is correct, PRI and PAN voters have more in common now than PRI voters have with PRD voters.

Founded in Mexico City on May 5, 1989 by Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas, Heberto Castillo, Marco Rascón Córdova, Gilberto Rincón Gallardo, Porfirio Muñoz Ledo, other prominent former PRI-members and left-wing politicians. The party was originally founded by including many smaller left-wing parties such as the Partido Comunista Mexicano (PCM, Mexican Communist Party), Partido Socialista Unificado de México (PSUM, Unified Socialist Party of Mexico), Partido Mexicano Socialista (PMS, Socialist Mexican Party) and Partido Mexicano de los Trabajadores (PMT, Mexican Workers' Party).

In any case, it seems at this point that the deal is done and now we'll all just have to wait and see what comes next.

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