Intercasa Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Not my methodology. First I wanted to go personally to the local office to ask them what the problem was and define the issue so then we can prepare. Next I asked who was their superior or authority. I do not feel that any Juanita or maria calling from another office will solve this problem, I needed to get the name of the person to whom they answer and will respect their decision. The person at the 800# may have no education, no authority and might know nobody locally. Now I have the person in Mexico City and know the issue, it will be a matter of calling that person, making my point and then having that person call the Guadalajara office and all resolved. Was funny I alleged that their actions were curious and unconstitutional as the constitution has changed to end inequality, why were they going the opposite direction. I shook the head guy´s hand upon leaving and it was soaking wet from sweating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manny Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 good job spencer. an 800# is just an endless loup, anywhere. its a way to get rid of people. someone had to go to the higher up & fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exHawaiian Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Thank you, Spencer. I'm looking forward to finding out the bottom line. Maybe they are looking forward to the new administration's ruling on this (and so many other things). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaykay Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 I think that now most people can see why many of us go to Denise and Spencer when we are forced to deal with official Mexico. Yes I can speak Spanish. Raised in Panama and Venezuela. I still want Spencer. Not only is he on top of what's happening, he's not afraid to say when he DOESN'T know. Rare down here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 good job spencer. an 800# is just an endless loup, anywhere. its a way to get rid of people. someone had to go to the higher up & fix it. The 800# is the MX City head office. That is the number the wife of Ajijic calls when she resolves problems that she finds in the local offices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheldon Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 even the locals I know, when it is possible, they avoid to to be in SP or SS, both of them are lacking of medications and offers the cheapest....nothing as good as the private clinics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elehne1 Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Not my methodology. First I wanted to go personally to the local office to ask them what the problem was and define the issue so then we can prepare. Next I asked who was their superior or authority. I do not feel that any Juanita or maria calling from another office will solve this problem, I needed to get the name of the person to whom they answer and will respect their decision. The person at the 800# may have no education, no authority and might know nobody locally. Now I have the person in Mexico City and know the issue, it will be a matter of calling that person, making my point and then having that person call the Guadalajara office and all resolved. Was funny I alleged that their actions were curious and unconstitutional as the constitution has changed to end inequality, why were they going the opposite direction. I shook the head guy´s hand upon leaving and it was soaking wet from sweating. We, too, trust Spencer to get to the heart of the issue. My husband lived in Brazil for over twenty five years and speaks fluent Spanish, however, Spencer knows Mexico. Thanks Spencer!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manny Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 they dont speak spanish in brazil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manny Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 griffin, "the wife" is not spencer. an 800 operator has limited knowlege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajijic Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 When you call the 800# you talk to exactly the same person to whom Spencer will speak. You talk to the one's who administer the program. These are the same one's who take formal complaints and resolve issues. Anyone who speaks Spanish could have done this days ago. They are extremely helpful, knowledgeable and cooperative as noted in at least ten calls over a year. My comments have nothing to do with Spencer as I know him and a great fan. He is a huge asset to the community. My point is why so many need so much hand holding. And, if you wanted him to follow up why just not email him vs going in circles discussing it here over and over with all the drama? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manny Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 spencer has a back round in law. he can take it to the wall. there seem to be more problems here than SMA. so best to have a pro talk the talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 spencer has a back round in law. he can take it to the wall. there seem to be more problems here than SMA. so best to have a pro talk the talk. Spencer to me seems to have a healthy ego so I doubt he needs all the a** kissing he's getting. Spencer has an interest in this. He gets paid to sign people up for SP. Being a good businessman he needs to stop the locals from applying rumors and preventing eligible people from joining SP. Anyone who speaks Spanish can call the 800# and resolve this matter immediately. Apparently it is gossip going between the offices and no directives have been sent to the local offices stating that foreigners who are not becoming citizens cannot join. The person in La Barca had no more authority than the man in Joco to deny coverage or make a decision. I doubt the person in Guadalajara had any authority either. I can't blame them for being resentful that foreigners are signing up for SP and a few foreigners are soaking the system when they should have enough money to see private doctors and buy their own medicines. I joined SP but only for a surgery that I still might have performed privately but if I can't afford a private surgeon, I have no choice but to use SP. I'll gladly pay something toward my care if SP asks me. There are foreigners who expect Mexican taxpayers to buy all their medicines and that is a shame and I can't blame the SP employees for resenting it. It doesn't take a lawyer to call the 800# to straighten this out. It is not a difficult problem to solve. This isn't the first time the locals have tried to keep foreigners out and those people who were denied membership called the 800#, the main office called the locals and the local policy was stopped. If this was a new SP policy then it would be in every SP office, not only here, and it isn't. As Ajijic wrote, it isn't happening in SMA. It is a problem with locals who want to keep foreigners out and as soon as the people at the main office are called, it will be stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 griffin, "the wife" is not spencer. an 800 operator has limited knowlege. Ajijic's wife has signed up more people with SP than has Spencer. It's not a contest. The people at the 800# are the people who manage the local offices. They are not 800 number operators. Pay attention Manny there will be a test later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elehne1 Posted July 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 they dont speak spanish in brazil. No, they don't..they speak Portuguese and he is fluent in that language as well. Thanks for pointing that out Manny. Guess I should have said fluent in English, Spanish and Portuguese languages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manny Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 so what if some expats take advantage. mexicans have been doing that for years in the US, & then some & then some more. come on, give yourself a break. i myself havnt signed up for insurance even though i need it. why? because i read forums. AND i never trusted it to begin with. (or IMSS, or the mex govt, or even some of my own govt). i think its hit or miss. depending upon who is sitting @the desk. (& lets stay on topic. i am not getting into the expat vs mexican immigration discussion). also "ajijic" from SMA has a mexican wife, it may work better when she deals w/it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elehne1 Posted July 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 When you call the 800# you talk to exactly the same person to whom Spencer will speak. You talk to the one's who administer the program. These are the same one's who take formal complaints and resolve issues. Anyone who speaks Spanish could have done this days ago. They are extremely helpful, knowledgeable and cooperative as noted in at least ten calls over a year.My comments have nothing to do with Spencer as I know him and a great fan. He is a huge asset to the community. My point is why so many need so much hand holding. And, if you wanted him to follow up why just not email him vs going in circles discussing it here over and over with all the drama? The OP was started to see if anyone had a problem as a foreigner with SP currently. The drama on many of the posts I agree was not needed. My husband has spoken to the 800 number as well and no resolution. We called Spencer the day this happened and have been following his advise. Our issue has been resolved with SP and hopefully this recent problem encountered in this area will be resolved, too. Spencer is a great resource to this community and we thank you for your great advice on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 The OP was started to see if anyone had a problem as a foreigner with SP currently. The drama on many of the posts I agree was not needed. My husband has spoken to the 800 number as well and no resolution. We called Spencer the day this happened and have been following his advise. Our issue has been resolved with SP and hopefully this recent problem encountered in this area will be resolved, too. Spencer is a great resource to this community and we thank you for your great advice on this matter. I thought you wrote that you were contacting the SP employee in Guadalajara for a letter explaining the change in policy instead of the direct way to resolve it by calling the 800#. I believe you responded several times that you wanted to talk to all the lower level people first, all the people who are equal in employment to the person in Joco, before calling the 800# but now you state the 800# was called without resolution. Pray tell, what did the people at the main office tell you? I have a serious problem believing that the main office gave you the same information, that foreigners who are not becoming citizens are denied. That would be illegal. An agency cannot change the law. So far, none of the employees have offered proof, a directive or memo from the main office stating that there is a change in policy. No, all that you and Spencer have reported is that the employees attempt to read the law and incorrectly conclude that foreigners are excluded. They are interpreting the law on their own and applying SP rules that they have made up on their own. I cannot believe that the main office told you that foreigners are no longer accepted. The man in Joco has been told before by the head office to knock it off after he told foreigners that SP had its quota of foreigners and he wasn't signing anymore up. Spencer got involved when it started to hurt his business interests. If his business interests coincide with our interests, great we all benefit, but he didn't decide to call the main office because we or you asked him to call. He did post the law that states that SP cannot deny foreigners who reside in Mexico membership in SP. SP cannot make up its own laws and no local person has produced this new rule from SP which means there is no new rule so the main office must have told you when you claim you called that foreigners are not excluded. I think the drama Ajijic refers to is the going in every direction sideways instead of going straight and getting the correct information from the correct people at the head office. This could have been put to bed over a week ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intercasa Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 I can count the people I have signed up for SP on my fingers, it is negligible if any part of my business and my interests are to help the community as I am looking at the constitutional and discriminatory issue and the potential for a federal lawsuit to boost my ego, not the hope of a few hgundred pesos a month for signing people up, actually if it goes to a federal lawsuit then the payback period for my time would be years, this is not a business thing but a community thing and I am working on others where all will benefit, just not my clients. Driving to Guadalajara with gas and parking isn't cheap, how many of you hate the drive? How long to recover that cost? I dont go to SP in Chapala but send a paid employee As far as calling the 800 number goes I doubt the head of the national dept answers it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 Spencer I think everyone agrees that you are a wealth of information and helpful to everyone in the community. I don't know why you bothered to drive to Guadalajara when you could call the head office. I don't know why you need the name of the head person for SP. To me that is like having a Medicare problem and calling the head of Medicare. I doubt that head of the national dept. is sitting around waiting for phone calls, but if you were given the right name and not the employee's mother's name, and you get through to that person, more power to you. I would have asked the Guad employee to read the SP Administrative Rule stating that foreigners cannot join and not read his own interpretation of the law. The local offices cannot make up their own Administrative Rules. I don't think you make a living signing people up for SP or that you do it personally but that it is one of the many services you provide. People pay you for a service and you pay your employees. If clients are happy with one service they ask for others. You are being a good businessman by taking care of your clients and providing all services. I wasn't aware that Mexico had 1983 type lawsuits for civil rights violations. It is my understanding that one can only sue for exact damages and I've never seen a class action type suit in Mexico suing an agency for violating the law, but my Spanish is limited. I think in Mexico you need to be paid by the plaintiffs and most of them would be dead before it was resolved and it would be a suit for free medical care so getting paid at all might be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manny Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 as far as i see here, people thrive on difficulty. its like a badge of honor. if someone can help, why not appreciate it? if spencers help also benefits his business thats a double win. being a nice guy is a great way to build a business. he has helped me for small things, for minimal cost. once i paid him 60 pesos for filling out a paper, via phone. (i considered that a favor). people said i should do it myself, as he "charges" for the service. what he did was saved me hours of b.s! most people who move here, have a twisted way of seeing things. but its their time- their life, & they get off on the b.s. this kind of self inflicted pain is demoralizing. the harder something is the more they want it, or enjoy it. i would not spend 3 seconds of my time fighting w/a clerk in joco? (in any language). if there are services offered here, thats a "plus". & the people who benefit are happy. but being perverse, you turn it into a minus. (go figure). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 As you said to Peter, I don't understand a word you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manny Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 "griffin", a federal lawsuit may be a huge career boost for spencer. as well as a community service. you have a limited vision of the world @ large. think of the publicity. "ajijic", people do need "hand holding" that is why they need your wife & spencer. i always prefer someone else to speak w/govt employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 The local offices cannot make up their own Administrative Rules. That's funny. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 "griffin", a federal lawsuit may be a huge career boost for spencer. as well as a community service. you have a limited vision of the world @ large. think of the publicity. "ajijic", people do need "hand holding" that is why they need your wife & spencer. i always prefer someone else to speak w/govt employees. I don't have a wife. I think you have me confused with Ajijic whose wife helps people to enroll in Seguro Popular. I have a hard time believing that Spencer would want to be involved in a federal lawsuit and I doubt there would be any publicity. The suit would only go as far as a judge ordering local employees to follow the rules of their agency but way before a suit could be filed, the managers of SP would tell them to follow the agency Administrative Rules, negating a reason for a suit. You might need someone to do the talking for you. Down here I would also due to a lack of Spanish skills but In English, I prefer to do my own talking even to government employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intercasa Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 The suit would be fun and practice for me and I already spoke to another attorney buddy in Guadalajara about it as yes it is about winning for us as well as helping and letting them place faces with the calls so they know the people have someone fighting for them and that they need to justify their actions and answer for them, it is my way of doing things and perhaps some of you have a different way, to each his own but I would like to obtain favorable results. I would not fight for violations of disounts for paying property taxes or the old people discount card as I do not think that is a big deal as Mexicans living here for years should have certain rights and privileges versus newly arriving foreigners and really that is a matter of a few dollars. I have seen some foreigners in bad shape due to medical issues and that is something nobody should have to lose money and property over caprichous decisions of administrative personnel where they can be forced into bankruptcy or face losing all they have saved. Things are different here in Jalisco versus Guanajuato, they shouldn't be that way but nontheless it is a ripe issue and one that affects many and their futures here and needs to be dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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