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bonbon

A positive note to the tourists

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Animal Lover...

Of course you don't have any problem. You stay locked in your house swimming and watching movies.

Wouldn't it be nice to feel free to move around (speaking some Spanish of course) enjoying the country, Guadalajara, and all the wonderful things Mexico has to offer. This is why I moved to Mexico.

Nobody should consider moving to Lakeside under present conditions. If you speak some Spanish, are familiar with Mexican culture, have your eyes wide open, and are aware of the situation we presently face, then by all means come down for a visit. Rent....do not buy!!

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Everything in life has to do with perspective: If I were considering a move to a country and heard negative things like what is going on here right now, of course, I would be scared and would never go there. BUT, living here, I have to say that I am not afraid, and I still feel safe. I am very careful and always look around and try not to put myself in a perilous situation, where ever I live in the world.

We are facing two different crimes in Chapala at the moment:

  1. Narco crime: the kidnapping and the killing of innocent people to revenge for what the police are doing or for what other narcos are doing; and the narcos killing each other for gain of territories or for whatever reason;
  2. Regular crime: break-ins, thief, etc.

The first is temporary, I’m sure, and the second is not worse than anywhere else in the world.

All that publicity, speculation and hype have created a climate of panic. Sometimes it is better not to know too much. That does not mean that I have my head in the sand, on the contrary. But if I am not in control, or if I cannot do anything about something what is the point. Call it my sense of preservation, but I feel a lot better this way . . . I keep on living happily and worry free while things pass by. Someone else cannot sleep and makes all kinds of scenarios and is ready to sale his house. Two people; two different reactions. Things will be what they are with or without me.

I sincerely believe this is a temporary situation—sad, but temporary.

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Yes well said seewee. I too believe that things will soon come back to normal. Sure with the unemployment above average, we will have more petty crime, like is happening everywhere, but this very serious crap (sorry but I don't know a better word) will soon be behind us, if it's not there already.

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Guest bigd

Everything in life has to do with perspective: If I were considering a move to a country and heard negative things like what is going on here right now, of course, I would be scared and would never go there. BUT, living here, I have to say that I am not afraid, and I still feel safe. I am very careful and always look around and try not to put myself in a perilous situation, where ever I live in the world.

We are facing two different crimes in Chapala at the moment:

  1. Narco crime: the kidnapping and the killing of innocent people to revenge for what the police are doing or for what other narcos are doing; and the narcos killing each other for gain of territories or for whatever reason;
  2. Regular crime: break-ins, thief, etc.

The first is temporary, I’m sure, and the second is not worse than anywhere else in the world.

All that publicity, speculation and hype have created a climate of panic. Sometimes it is better not to know too much. That does not mean that I have my head in the sand, on the contrary. But if I am not in control, or if I cannot do anything about something what is the point. Call it my sense of preservation, but I feel a lot better this way . . . I keep on living happily and worry free while things pass by. Someone else cannot sleep and makes all kinds of scenarios and is ready to sale his house. Two people; two different reactions. Things will be what they are with or without me.

I sincerely believe this is a temporary situation—sad, but temporary.

Perspective to often depends on whether you won property or rent property.

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Guest bigd

Everything in life has to do with perspective: If I were considering a move to a country and heard negative things like what is going on here right now, of course, I would be scared and would never go there. BUT, living here, I have to say that I am not afraid, and I still feel safe. I am very careful and always look around and try not to put myself in a perilous situation, where ever I live in the world.

We are facing two different crimes in Chapala at the moment:

  1. Narco crime: the kidnapping and the killing of innocent people to revenge for what the police are doing or for what other narcos are doing; and the narcos killing each other for gain of territories or for whatever reason;
  2. Regular crime: break-ins, thief, etc.

The first is temporary, I’m sure, and the second is not worse than anywhere else in the world.

All that publicity, speculation and hype have created a climate of panic. Sometimes it is better not to know too much. That does not mean that I have my head in the sand, on the contrary. But if I am not in control, or if I cannot do anything about something what is the point. Call it my sense of preservation, but I feel a lot better this way . . . I keep on living happily and worry free while things pass by. Someone else cannot sleep and makes all kinds of scenarios and is ready to sale his house. Two people; two different reactions. Things will be what they are with or without me.

I sincerely believe this is a temporary situation—sad, but temporary.

sorry meant own property

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Looking forward to moving to Lakeside and starting my retirement as soon as I can finish liguidating assets in Canada. I love the Mexican food, beer, culture, beer, scenery, beer, people .... did I mention the beer?

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Remember Ezzie (changing the subject just a little) you can have home town TV down there (GTA). So to save money, pick up whatever Shaw Direct equipment you need and have room to bring with you. It's one heck a lot cheaper to get up there than in Mexico. (There are two satellite dish sizes. Bring the larger 75 E, not the smaller 60E).

There is nothing better than sipping a Mexican beer on a warm and sunny afternoon along the shores of Lake Chapala watching your favorite sports team from up north playing in the snow on your favorite sports channel.

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Whether now is the right time to move depends on your risk tolerance.

There is a chance that you will be affected by violence. I live half of the year in Colorado. My chances of hitting a deer driving in the evening is, I believe, greater than my chance of being physically harmed by the narco problem. But I agree it does exist.

On the other hand, the unrest makes it an interesting time to invest. When the problems here resolve, you will see a good appreciation on your investments in the Lakeside community.

So look at your portfolio. If it is filled with CD's, AAA bonds, and the like. Please wait until things resolve here and you can help some other expat realize the gains on his Lakeside investments!

Oh, golly--in the midst of truly horrendous happenings here, with the expat and Mexican for good reason living in fear, we get investment advice ! Cool.

Lexy

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Returned home April 15th after a winter stay. Have gone down to Lakeside for 6 yrs. yes wonderful. Will not return. Even if you stay safe, do you want to live with this atmosphere, informal curfew, vigilance, no hiking in the hills for safety and enjoying your white wine and dinner out while a Mexican child is kidnapped?

There are more peaceful places in the world if you can afford the move. This mind sets puts us in a gringo bubble in the community.. Thank you to those who show solidarity with their Mexican neighbors. If you can afford it, it is a wide world and a big Mexico. There are safer places. But read Borderland Beat Webside to see what is happening nation wide. Read Ioan Grillo's EL Narco . Knowledgebrings good judgement.

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Temporary, yes. But how long this will go on is anyones guess.

Many have hopes that the election will make a difference, I hope so, but the operative word is hope.

No one knows where this will go, and no one knows how long it will last.

If one has the opportunity to delay moving here, then they may want to consider holding off.

Many who are here are waiting and watching to see what happens.

It's a great area and I'm not ready to run back up NOB, but this will have an impact for a while and things won't return to normal for some time. If this had occured a year ago, we would still be up north waiting and watching to see several months of peace prior to coming down. I'm glad I'm here. We still feel safe, but we're very concerned. We're glad we're renting.

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It felt good to see the Army on the highway today. From La Huerta to the restaurant strips there were three sets of different police making spot checks. It tells me that Jocoepec is serious in the matter. If they continue, this will be over sooner than we think. If you read the Guadalajara Reporter, there is the whole story. It seems to me that all those executions were between the three gangs or four fighting each other. That sounds good to me.

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I'm still on the fence but appreciate all the feedback. I asked someone who lives there and was told it's all rumours and no locals have been killed. Just drug dealers and that nothing has changed in the village, it's still safe to go out at night and the restaurants are busy, or as busy as they ever are this time of year. I was also told to not worry 'as this doesn't affect the gringo community at all'! My goodness...thankful I found this website and got some other opinions. Thanks for all the sensible input.

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Well ... I've lived here 8 yrs, and reading that some 'snowbirds' have decided not to return, kinda makes me feel relieved. I know there is less 'entertainment' (NOB style) here once the snowbirds leave, but ... oh well !

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i'm keeping an open mind, but investigating more of ecuador. from what the expats there say, it's like chapala was 20 years ago, especially insofar as prices of housing and other expenses, and their crime so far is petty stuff.

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The Lakeside area is my adopted home so I am not leaving but I am telling you that the murders were of innocent victims - young men who had nothing to do with drugs or gangs. I was just over to Emiliano Zapato with flowers to pay respects to the family of Carlos and Gustavo - two high school students 17 and 18 years old, playing basketball on the malecon in Ajijic when they were abducted. The Guad Reporter said they were "partying" on the malecon. No such thing! They had just gone to Oxxo to get some sodas which were found unopened by the family when they came to look for them. Tomorrow we go to the mass of Abel, the only child of Mario and his wife, of Mario's restaurant in San Antonio. A fine upstanding young man. We have known both of these families for years. This is grief and fear. In past times, I dismissed violence up at the border as "gang related violence a long way from here". Now I am ashamed to have thought that.

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Bookwoman.. articulate, thoughtful, sad. For the families and friends there is no way to comprehend their total grief but thanks for allowing us the insight. Your last sentence truly is a reminder to all of us. Unfortunately and shamefully, until it is close to home most just write off those tortured and killed by these terrorists.

In the past anyone bringing up these issues was accused of trying to affect real estate prices and fear mongering. As Arroyo Grande recently posted, where have you been for that last while as only when it is in your own yard do we become concerned. The same is still happening in SMA where those killed are written off as being all "narcos" themselves. No where is immune as they operate with impunity. To think this will go away at lakeside or anywhere else has to be purely wishful thinking, for I ask what would make it get better?

Bookwoman, again, I sincerely thank you.

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I see people there are starting to get it, I am sorry it is taking it being in your back yard. When I first came to this board I was attacked for talking about how innocents are killed and labled as narcos by the police and the media. People on the forum were shouting "99% of those killed in mexico are narcos" which would and still bothers me greatly as it puts no value at all on the lives of the innocents killed. Arroyo Grande knows what is, and has been, going on. People there are starting to learn (I think) not to put stock in what the police and media put out. All over mexico people killed, innocents, are written off as narcos. It was called "fearmongering" when in reality it is watered down to make people think it is not innocents.

I lived in several cities in the US, San diego and seattle being the largest, and crime was no comparison to the small pueblo where we live. I don't get that people are still trying to equate the violent crime in even smaller areas here with the major cities elsewhere. There appears to be a huge upswing everywhere. These pueblos all have neighborhood watch now, banners going up everywhere. The banners are being ripped down unfortunately. Burglarlies, street assaults, car thefts and assaults on young girls have all shot up in these pueblos in mexico state. Three days ago a young girl was walking and the wife and I saw a guy grope her very violently. We went after him but he disappeared, I wanted to get him very badly. This happens a lot in this area.

Like someone mentioned, the cops will not come. You guys have a better chance of getting anything from the police here than most mexican's, especially poor mexican's.

You cannot rely on the media for the truth, especially if someone killed was a narco or not. Get it word of mouth from mexican's.....MAYBE they will tell non mexican's what is going on. You will not get it anywhere else.

Media censorship example. Pena Nieto was at IberoAmericana university in DF and the students protested him, called him coward, etc. How much did you see in the media? There was a huge protest in df yesterday against pena nieto, Did anyone see the scope of it in the media? They are on youtube, if anyone is interrested search pena nieto IberoAmericana or ibera, for the protest pena nieto manifestacion df. I know it's getting off topic, but examples of bought media. Narcos have plenty of money to buy police, media, politicos.

Regardless, I wish everyone the best there and all of mexico (especially the innocents killed and their families that get ignored). I see something about the board censoring and have no idea if I am posting anything illegal. I doubt I will be posting much if I am expected to help sell houses unless I get paid. That should make the "99% of those killed in mexico are narcos" crowd happy. Easier on the conscience.

I amost forgot, great post Bookwoman and I am sorry for the young ones and their families. This is, unfortunately, VERY common. It's just getting down there.

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I see people there are starting to get it, I am sorry it is taking it being in your back yard. When I first came to this board I was attacked for talking about how innocents are killed and labled as narcos by the police and the media. People on the forum were shouting "99% of those killed in mexico are narcos" which would and still bothers me greatly as it puts no value at all on the lives of the innocents killed. Arroyo Grande knows what is, and has been, going on. People there are starting to learn (I think) not to put stock in what the police and media put out. All over mexico people killed, innocents, are written off as narcos. It was called "fearmongering" when in reality it is watered down to make people think it is not innocents.

I lived in several cities in the US, San diego and seattle being the largest, and crime was no comparison to the small pueblo where we live. I don't get that people are still trying to equate the violent crime in even smaller areas here with the major cities elsewhere. There appears to be a huge upswing everywhere. These pueblos all have neighborhood watch now, banners going up everywhere. The banners are being ripped down unfortunately. Burglarlies, street assaults, car thefts and assaults on young girls have all shot up in these pueblos in mexico state. Three days ago a young girl was walking and the wife and I saw a guy grope her very violently. We went after him but he disappeared, I wanted to get him very badly. This happens a lot in this area.

Like someone mentioned, the cops will not come. You guys have a better chance of getting anything from the police here than most mexican's, especially poor mexican's.

You cannot rely on the media for the truth, especially if someone killed was a narco or not. Get it word of mouth from mexican's.....MAYBE they will tell non mexican's what is going on. You will not get it anywhere else.

Media censorship example. Pena Nieto was at IberoAmericana university in DF and the students protested him, called him coward, etc. How much did you see in the media? There was a huge protest in df yesterday against pena nieto, Did anyone see the scope of it in the media? They are on youtube, if anyone is interrested search pena nieto IberoAmericana or ibera, for the protest pena nieto manifestacion df. I know it's getting off topic, but examples of bought media. Narcos have plenty of money to buy police, media, politicos.

Regardless, I wish everyone the best there and all of mexico (especially the innocents killed and their families that get ignored). I see something about the board censoring and have no idea if I am posting anything illegal. I doubt I will be posting much if I am expected to help sell houses unless I get paid. That should make the "99% of those killed in mexico are narcos" crowd happy. Easier on the conscience.

I amost forgot, great post Bookwoman and I am sorry for the young ones and their families. This is, unfortunately, VERY common. It's just getting down there.

Hi Toltepeceno,.... I always loved reading your posts and agreed with most (if not all) of it, because with your background, you really understand what is going on here. What we are seeing here now, I saw it coming a long time ago, but as far as the future, I have no idea about will happen next (in this region). We have state police and some army here but not sure for how long and I wonder what will happen after their departure and after the elections.

Therefore, I would be very interested in reading your opinion about the future for the Lakeside area (I know that you are not living here) and Mexico on the whole.

Greetings,

Rony

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I see people there are starting to get it, I am sorry it is taking it being in your back yard. When I first came to this board I was attacked for talking about how innocents are killed and labled as narcos by the police and the media. People on the forum were shouting "99% of those killed in mexico are narcos" which would and still bothers me greatly as it puts no value at all on the lives of the innocents killed. Arroyo Grande knows what is, and has been, going on. People there are starting to learn (I think) not to put stock in what the police and media put out. All over mexico people killed, innocents, are written off as narcos. It was called "fearmongering" when in reality it is watered down to make people think it is not innocents.

I lived in several cities in the US, San diego and seattle being the largest, and crime was no comparison to the small pueblo where we live. I don't get that people are still trying to equate the violent crime in even smaller areas here with the major cities elsewhere. There appears to be a huge upswing everywhere. These pueblos all have neighborhood watch now, banners going up everywhere. The banners are being ripped down unfortunately. Burglarlies, street assaults, car thefts and assaults on young girls have all shot up in these pueblos in mexico state. Three days ago a young girl was walking and the wife and I saw a guy grope her very violently. We went after him but he disappeared, I wanted to get him very badly. This happens a lot in this area.

Like someone mentioned, the cops will not come. You guys have a better chance of getting anything from the police here than most mexican's, especially poor mexican's.

You cannot rely on the media for the truth, especially if someone killed was a narco or not. Get it word of mouth from mexican's.....MAYBE they will tell non mexican's what is going on. You will not get it anywhere else.

Media censorship example. Pena Nieto was at IberoAmericana university in DF and the students protested him, called him coward, etc. How much did you see in the media? There was a huge protest in df yesterday against pena nieto, Did anyone see the scope of it in the media? They are on youtube, if anyone is interrested search pena nieto IberoAmericana or ibera, for the protest pena nieto manifestacion df. I know it's getting off topic, but examples of bought media. Narcos have plenty of money to buy police, media, politicos.

Regardless, I wish everyone the best there and all of mexico (especially the innocents killed and their families that get ignored). I see something about the board censoring and have no idea if I am posting anything illegal. I doubt I will be posting much if I am expected to help sell houses unless I get paid. That should make the "99% of those killed in mexico are narcos" crowd happy. Easier on the conscience.

I amost forgot, great post Bookwoman and I am sorry for the young ones and their families. This is, unfortunately, VERY common. It's just getting down there.

Great post. Finally somebody with more than a superficial grasp of what is occuring. I put this link up on the other board and I'll put it up here also. This is from an interview with Charles Bowden, who has forgotten more about the border violence than most of us know.

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Thank you Rony, I appreciate the kind comments. I saw it coming also, it's moving all over. You cannot convince someone that does not want to be convinced though. I am sorry it has escalated so much there.

It's really hard to say what will happen, how long it will go on. GUAD is an important area for the tarcos and as people there are finding out they have expanded much more into extortion, kidnapping, etc. Legalizing pot up north would not make t hem go back to 64 peso a day jobs. Still too much money involved.

The PRI party has more of a history of being bought off by the narcos, so really it's hard to say how it would go if pri gets back in. Probably less military and police fighting it, less coverage in the parers (the media are for pri) but still lots of extortion, etc going on. Out of sight, out of mind you know.

So I think people would see less in the open with pri. I just do not like pena nieto. He was in charge of police that massacred farmers here in Mexico state. That's what most of the anti pena protests have been about. They do not get much coverage though.

Nice post Willie, the government here is also very pro business especially large business. Very hard to make a sustaining wage as he stated.

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Charles Bowden is full of it. Total misinformation and pure nonsense. IMO

It is people like this that misrepresent Mexico as being a 3rd world country when it is actually a 2nd world developing country.

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With 48% of the people making 1200 pesos a month rural, 2100 pesos a month urban and 90% making 6000+ pesos a month or less SOMEONE is full of it.

Those stat's and references are posted on this board.

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Charles Bowden is full of it. Total misinformation and pure nonsense. IMO

It is people like this that misrepresent Mexico as being a 3rd world country when it is actually a 2nd world developing country.

You need to do better than that.

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With 48% of the people making 1200 pesos a month rural, 2100 pesos a month urban and 90% making 6000+ pesos a month or less SOMEONE is full of it.

Those stat's and references are posted on this board.

http://online.wsj.co...517-716221.html

http://en.wikipedia....onomy_of_Mexico

Check out Mexico's falling poverty level here.

http://en.wikipedia....verty_in_Mexico

"Current figures estimate that at least 44.2 percent of the population lives under poverty. Of those, 33.7 live under a moderate state of poverty and at least 10.5 percent live under extreme poverty."

The video stated 50% live in poverty. It costs 80% to 90% to live in border cities, total misinformation. The factory wages are on average $65.00 US per week. Total misinformation.

"Mexico is the second richest country in Latin America, after Brazil; and the second Latin American country with most number of poor, after Brazil as well; given Mexico's population is about 80 million less than Brazil.

  • Mexico has the 11th to 13th richest economy in the world and ranks 4th with most number of poor among richest economies.

Mexico is the 10th to 13th country with the most number of poor in the world."

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