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AlanMexicali

What Mexico does that seems odd to some expats?

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valgal, im am sure your landladies are lovely people. sometimes it is fine to call them when they dont show up. just ask which day or days are better for them? (in spanish). also for times, i say 10 ok, 11ok 11:30 no problem. that gives a window. i have a garden man who is not steady. hes been working here for over 2 1/2 yrs. he started sweeping, after a while i asked him if he could cut grass. now he works here several times a month. fixing the roof, the skylight, painting steps, & garden. i call him the day i need him or the day before if he has to borrow a machine. 85% of the time he shows up. usually on the dot or w/in 30 minutes. he surprised me last week, he actually telephoned to say he "could not come @ 10am but 2:30pm". it was a special job. being the holiday week i still had wasn't sure he would show later. he didnt. but i called him when he was 1 1/2 hrs late, & he said he had to "go w/family to guad. see you saturday". he didnt call back the second time to change the day as he was a bit ashamed. (over extended himself). when he arrived saturday, he said, "don't worry i can work a long time". my point is that you CAN communicate w/workers & can have a relationship that goes both ways. as for pinning all asians or mexicans for being similar, i don't buy into that. many asians are top scientists & are top in technology. they don't all wash dishes. i know as my brother is chairman of a university in s.e. asia. ask one of his collegues for directions, they will be correct& detailed. ask a rice farmer in cambodia, maybe he will make up a story. oh yes, i had written directions & a map drawn by 2 mexican workers near 6 corners. they knew where my friend moved, & were helping. they did know exactly where the house was located. so not everyone will give the same response. come to think of it, most people (even americans) cant just say NO, when they don't know! look @the forums, you get answers when the members don't even understand the questions.

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as for pinning all asians or mexicans for being similar, i don't buy into that. many asians are top scientists & are top in technology. they don't all wash dishes. i know as my brother is chairman of a university in s.e. asia. ask one of his collegues for directions, they will be correct& detailed. ask a rice farmer in cambodia, maybe he will make up a story. oh yes, i had written directions & a map drawn by 2 mexican workers near 6 corners. they knew where my friend moved, & were helping. they did know exactly where the house was located. so not everyone will give the same response. come to think of it, most people (even americans) cant just say NO, when they don't know! look @the forums, you get answers when the members don't even understand the questions.

Good merciful heaven, manny, I didn't say anything like this. You just make it up as you go along.

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Thanks, More Liana, to responding to Manny's post. I couldn't have explained it better. This has been exactly my experience, and with understanding it as a culture difference, I am less likely to be offended when someone doesn't show up or call. I just take it as sort of normal.

My landladies, who are just lovely, said they were coming Saturday tp put some furniture in my apt. They didn't. But eventually it will happen.And there was no email or other communication. I find myself being less offended and reactive. This is my point.

Years ago when I would drive around Mexico in my car alone, I would often ask for directions. Another cultural difference I have encountered is that some Mexican people, wanting to be so kind and helpful, will give you a bum steer rather than telling you they don't know how to direct you. I learned to be very careful, asking several folks to see if I could get the same general directions. It paid to cross check.

I'm sorry if I offended a poster who didn't like to be pooled into the "assertive and blunt" American category. I suppose that deduction comes from those I have worked with in the helping professions such as court work, child protection, addictions recovery and the like. But I think the average American is less demure than the average. Mexican. I know I am hahahahaha

Just my opinion.

Your post is in line with what I experience and the part about us Americans is a good topic to ponder from the view of why Mexican people are a bit more conservative in their dealings than NOBers here in Mexico. One thing that I note as different is that here the class structure does seem to be involved where NOB the equality between classes is more the status quo. What I mean is that the middle class in Mexico gets perks from the working class but most middle class and even upper middle class, not all by any means, are polite regardless of who they are dealing with from the mannerisms they follow, usually, where as NOB the mannerism run a more level playing field between classes.

I see very little animosity coming from my many working class friends that are Mexican both in Mexico and San Diego but do notice it in my American friends at times. Even when some friends chat with me about my life in Mexico they seem to think poorer working class Mexicans can not be trusted as much as they themselves feel they can be trusted. I feel the stereotypical labeling has them tainted and have to wonder if expats do the same thing when in Mexico.

I have to admit being here does make me have to beware not to act in a way that can be construed as working class manners just because I don't always agree with the class disparity that Mexican middle class and upper middle class Mexicans enjoy in daily life. My wife does like me to behave myself and just do it.

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One of the most prevalent attitudes I see here, and in many of the countries outside the US where I have lived, is carpe diem. My gardener is a perfect example: life isn't easy but he takes pleasure in family time, his passion for music, and his love of family and friends...and he apparently has many and they treat each other well. Financial means not withstanding, many of us grew up substituting pleasurable time with loved ones and/or pursuing interests and passion for work, and I was one of them: we cancelled more than one vacation because work obligations invaded, we missed kids' events (not all but enough that I'm still reflective of some of our choices), postponed "me" time, and so on. We lived to work, where my gardener and others who have less financially than we do, seem to value hard work--in perspective. I certainly had things out of whack: for my generation, and that of my parents, being a good worker, to the utmost degree, was THE prized trait and highly valued; sacrificing personal time for work was required when I moved up the corporate ladder.

"Job first, family second, me last" was the mantra for too many years. My parents, in their 80s now, delayed most gratification only to experience ill health that now precludes them doing what they always put off "for retirement" and, day to day, I still have some of that attitude. Six years ago, I began the "Year of Me" (so titled by a burned-out good friend): I made a conscious plan to take care of "me" so I can live a better life with others with whom I want to make a connection. For us, we bought here, we try to live a lifestyle filled with greater personal satisfaction and thanks, and not obsess over (relatively) nothing. Flowers, birds, views, great food and friends, interesting neighbors who have rich lives, the opportunity to travel...lower blood pressure... I've learned that life can be really good.

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Even some of my very good friends in Tijuana, Guadalajara, Morelia, and Mexico City, people who are bien educados (well brought up, from good families, and very well-mannered) think nothing of arriving an hour or two after the accepted time of an event, be it a party, a book presentation, a wedding, etc.--or not arriving at all. There's a saying about this in Mexico: es mejor pedir perdón que pedir permiso. It's better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission. So much easier to accept an invitation and then not appear than to say NO to an invitation and appear rude from the outset! The first is behavior over which folks shake their heads and shrug, the second isn't acceptable behavior at all.

A couple of years ago we had a large wedding in San Luis Potosi. We sent out 168 invitations. 165 people attended our wedding, the boda. The 1 niece and her husband that did not make it was because her pregnancy complications had her in the hospital 4 days before. The ex jefe of my wife is the new governor of SLP and he sent a note with a driver to our house to say he would like to come but couldn't that morning. I could hardly believe that all the ones that were invited actually came. This means traveling from other cities as well for a dozen of them. I was very impressed with all this. No one left before the mariachis showed up at 12 midnight either that I noticed.

You can bet were have been invited to many more festive occasions from some of those guests since then and I have made some friends at those functions. SLP is a wonderful place to live.

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quickee background for those who don't know me: Raised in Venezuela, 32 years in Miami, own house in El Parque/Lake Chapala area.

I grew up and live on "Latin" time in Venezuela, which means I'm stressed every morning trying to get to work on time in the US, though Cuban time works for social events! I'm always amazed (when I visit Chapala) how my gringo/a friends are so obsessed with being punctual for social occasions. Why impose such strict rules instead of going with the flow? It's not as if you have a plane to catch!

On the whole (generalizing, remember), and especially for social occasions, the attitude in Hispanic (and probably other) countries is more fluid. They are used to having friends and relatives drop in unexpectedly, so there's always extra food. And if someone doesn't show, it's not a big deal. These are cultural differences. Chill, folks.

For the example giving on high attendance at a wedding, I will take a shot and say that weddings are milestones that many people either want or feel obligated to attend. Have no idea whether they are "good" at RSVP-ing to weddings where there may be a per person charge (as in the US), though I would suspect that it's more likely to be a buffet with a guesstimate of attendees.

I've been traveling to "Chapala" once or twice a year since 2003, and I shake my head when I read postings about how expats are outraged about how things are done in Mexico and how they think they should organize and change them. Just an opinion; not trying to press anyone's buttons.

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quickee background for those who don't know me: Raised in Venezuela, 32 years in Miami, own house in El Parque/Lake Chapala area.

I grew up and live on "Latin" time in Venezuela, which means I'm stressed every morning trying to get to work on time in the US, though Cuban time works for social events! I'm always amazed (when I visit Chapala) how my gringo/a friends are so obsessed with being punctual for social occasions. Why impose such strict rules instead of going with the flow? It's not as if you have a plane to catch!

On the whole (generalizing, remember), and especially for social occasions, the attitude in Hispanic (and probably other) countries is more fluid. They are used to having friends and relatives drop in unexpectedly, so there's always extra food. And if someone doesn't show, it's not a big deal. These are cultural differences. Chill, folks.

For the example giving on high attendance at a wedding, I will take a shot and say that weddings are milestones that many people either want or feel obligated to attend. Have no idea whether they are "good" at RSVP-ing to weddings where there may be a per person charge (as in the US), though I would suspect that it's more likely to be a buffet with a guesstimate of attendees.

I've been traveling to "Chapala" once or twice a year since 2003, and I shake my head when I read postings about how expats are outraged about how things are done in Mexico and how they think they should organize and change them. Just an opinion; not trying to press anyone's buttons.

Very wonderful post. You pressed my warm button. Thank you.

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My, aren't some of us judgemental - we come down to someone else's country - not to visit, but to live - and proceed to comment / criticize how the inahbitants of the country live / work / play. While the observations may be noteworthy, who are you to think that another culture is lacking because they don't do things the way you do? You make these observatons from the position of someone who may be well-off enough to live in this country, but probably doesn't deserve to. These same shortcomings that seem to bother you are what allows you to come down here and strut your stuff in the first place! And much of it is what attracted you to the region initially.

I seem to recall someone making the comment about the 'dirt village' - class act there, don't you think! You wonder why Americans have the reputation they do abroad? For some of you, you need only look in the mirror. The wisened Americans come down from the mountain to mingle with the common folk. Get over yourselves and enjoy the time you have left - adapt to your surroundings - there's a higher power that will do the judging, so leave that to the expert as he's got a bit more experience.

I'd leave you with the old adage about opinions being like _______ (you know what goes there - right?), but an opinion is usually something that's been reasoned and thought out. Neither of those criteria appear to have been met.

You started dying the day you were born - don't screw it up now.

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Guest bigd

My, aren't some of us judgemental - we come down to someone else's country - not to visit, but to live - and proceed to comment / criticize how the inahbitants of the country live / work / play. While the observations may be noteworthy, who are you to think that another culture is lacking because they don't do things the way you do? You make these observatons from the position of someone who may be well-off enough to live in this country, but probably doesn't deserve to. These same shortcomings that seem to bother you are what allows you to come down here and strut your stuff in the first place! And much of it is what attracted you to the region initially.

I seem to recall someone making the comment about the 'dirt village' - class act there, don't you think! You wonder why Americans have the reputation they do abroad? For some of you, you need only look in the mirror. The wisened Americans come down from the mountain to mingle with the common folk. Get over yourselves and enjoy the time you have left - adapt to your surroundings - there's a higher power that will do the judging, so leave that to the expert as he's got a bit more experience.

I'd leave you with the old adage about opinions being like _______ (you know what goes there - right?), but an opinion is usually something that's been reasoned and thought out. Neither of those criteria appear to have been met.

You started dying the day you were born - don't screw it up now.

After reading this post, I am wondering why moderator has not closed this topic by now

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there seems to be a confusion. different kinds of people have retired in mexico over the years. some come for a less expensive life, others like the culture. the govts have been trying to globalize n.america, especially since 2005. mexico is being marketed as an alternative to florida. there are migrations all over. did you forget that there are millions of mexicans & hispanics in the USA? they come for a better life, they may not want to intergrate w/you. they dont always behave to your liking. how is it different? i see a double standard here. you criticize your own, but dont see the other side. live & let live, thats my motto. there are many different mexico's as well. (as there are many different USA's).

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After reading this post, I am wondering why moderator has not closed this topic by now

Yet you add absolutely nothing, so far, to the discussion and just passed a judgement on all of us. If something is on your mind I, at least, would be interested in hearing it. Thank you. Alan

Also did you notice that post you mentioned is from someone who has just 3 posts here so far?

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I think discussing cultural differences is a great topic. People post experiences and opinions that can make us think about ourselves and maybe give us a little sway to change and grow. Discussing cultural differences is not meant to be construed as passing judgement. Thank you Jeanne b for your honest insights about your grocery store experience.

Manny, it wasn't ValGal that made the comment about the landlord not showing up. I was me. Let me clarify and make a point.

Landlord says she's coming saturday to provide some furniture for the house. The mother/daughter are both bilingual, No language barrier here. And I do speak Spanish somewhat adequately. My apt. wasn't rented as furnished. They Have offered to put a few things in here, but didn't show up as planned. I am grateful of the offer, and I am laid back enough to allow it to happen in its own time.

Point of growth for me it that I do not feel compelled to call and pester someone over the holidays that is going out to get furniture out of their ranch to eventually deliver it to me. I am sitting in my gratitude and letting it be.The old me would have been hyper and pushy and trying to make it happen.

That's it.

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virgo girl, if the furniture agreement was in the contract i myself would call, after holidays. if it was a favor, then i would leave her alone. i would buy my own things, but that me. i suppose we all need to find our comfort zone. the gardener didnt come today. lately hes been up & down. the maid raked the leaves. he said monday but i said i will call for a day next week. i know how how he operates. w/in a week he will want the extra work. good luck w/the furniture!

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My, aren't some of us judgemental - we come down to someone else's country - not to visit, but to live - and proceed to comment / criticize how the inahbitants of the country live / work / play. While the observations may be noteworthy, who are you to think that another culture is lacking because they don't do things the way you do? You make these observatons from the position of someone who may be well-off enough to live in this country, but probably doesn't deserve to. These same shortcomings that seem to bother you are what allows you to come down here and strut your stuff in the first place! And much of it is what attracted you to the region initially.

I seem to recall someone making the comment about the 'dirt village' - class act there, don't you think! You wonder why Americans have the reputation they do abroad? For some of you, you need only look in the mirror. The wisened Americans come down from the mountain to mingle with the common folk. Get over yourselves and enjoy the time you have left - adapt to your surroundings - there's a higher power that will do the judging, so leave that to the expert as he's got a bit more experience.

I'd leave you with the old adage about opinions being like _______ (you know what goes there - right?), but an opinion is usually something that's been reasoned and thought out. Neither of those criteria appear to have been met.

You started dying the day you were born - don't screw it up now.

I, for one, appreciate differing opinions that are well thought out and respectful. I'm always interested in the learning experience. Welcome Abedoya. Enlighten us.

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Part of the attraction of living in another country, for me, is having the oportunity to experience other cultures. I don.t necessarily like or approve of all of the differences that I find here, some of my own culture is so deeply ingrained in me ...it would just be impossible to just change everything about myself . The Mexican concept of time is a good example of that, I can accept other peoples cultural and social values on that one, usually without getting terribly annoyed.

Other things are more difficult for me. I have had the experience of someone telling me "I't's easier to apologise than ask permission" more than once...it seems cowardly and dishonest to me...I guess that's a judgment but I didn't leave my character flaws at the border. I feel like the important thing is that I get over it really quickly and I sure am enjoying the cultural and spiritual journey that began when I came to live in Mexico.

I am very perplexed by the animosity I see sometimes that foreigners have for their own countrymen . People sometimes have standards that they have set for themselves, I suppose, then proceed to judge other foreigners that don't meet those standards, or choose to experience Mexico in a manner different from their own . Sometimes people put Mexico and Mexicans on a pedestal high above their own country and countrymen, they get extremely defensive of any critical remarks and will even suggest that if there is something you don't like you should go back where you came from. I see that as lack of experience and hope they won't be too disappointed when they find out that the country and its citizens are just as flawed as the country they came from, just in different ways. Mexico doesn't need our approval on everything and if we don't like something we are free to say so, and then decide how to live with it.

I have the most difficult time understanding why foreigners object to people moving here for the weather or financial reasons or anything that is often defined as the "wrong" reasons...what's up with that? I hear it often and I don't get it why anyone cares or thinks its wrong.

There is a lot of snobbery among foreigners that speak Spanish against those that don't...While there is no question that having a good command of the language will increase your foreign living experience, it's just almost impossible for some people to learn a new language due to many factors, age among them. I am aware that some people just don't want to make the effort to learn Spanish or perhaps even really learn about the culture , possibly because it might distort their idyllic view of things.

Then there are the different perspectives about our "place" in our chosen country of residence...what rights that we do and don't have. A fierce need to reprimand people who want to inspire change in some areas that could clearly use a change. Mexico is a proud country that values tradition, but even the Mexicans want some things to grow and change and it is inevitable that the presence of foreigners in large numbers are going to influence, inspire or even cause some change, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Still, it might do us all good to keep remembering that the cultural differences are part of what attracted a lot of us to Mexico in the first place.

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Betsy. You hit a a few points that I agree with and a few points that I disagree with. When reading I feel some expats do not like the status quo of MANY of the things they feel as not acceptable without needing or feeling any need to understand the background of the situation that brought these many things into existence in the first place and seem content on just stereotyping ALL Mexicans as such. Even the political policies can be included. If one takes into consideration, as you state, everyone has their own views and quirks that is one thing, but when some expats, not you, generalize and state every location in Mexico and every Mexican approves or participates in some things that might have been status quo years ago but is improving by popular demand then that is another thing. The way it seems to me is understanding the basics can make you more accepting of things that seem odd or just not right to them. Us that do speak Spanish might come off as condescending and maybe we are at times. It seems that it depends on what buttons are pushed. To say some that speak Spanish favor Mexicans over Americans or Canadians is generalizing and does no good. We all have family and friends NOB so that is a misnomer to label many of us as biased. Most expats would not be here if we didn't think it is a safe and friendly environment to live in, regardless of financial or weather considerations.

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Here we are talking about the culture of a country and the foreigners perception, interpretation or understanding of that culture and how we fit into it. When someone speaks of cultural traits , habits, practices or whatever I think it just goes without saying that you are speaking, not of every single person in every part of the country, but in general and it would be difficult to even have this discussion without generalising because there are always exceptions where people and diffferent regions of a country are involved. I really don´t think that when people speak of ¨Mexicans or ¨Mexico¨ they are talking about every Mexican or all of Mexico, they are just talking about what they have observed in the culture without going into a long disertation on individuals, regions, economic class and all the other variables.

For example, I could say ¨at the beaches in Nayarit everyone calls you ¨ämigo¨ .... and that would be a true statment about the culture there, except some people are not going to call you ¨amigo¨ and the statment would not be intended to cover every single person at every single beach anyway. I have heard lots of statments that generalise the culture of lots of countries...U.S. Americans are rude, Canadians are tight-wads , Chinese are very disciplined...none of those statments could apply to every single person, they are just cultural generalizations that we have all heard before.

I didn´t say that I believe foreigners that speak spanish favor Mexicans over foreigners, but I have observed a lot of judgment being passed by some that do have some command of the language on those that don´t ....

I have mostly commented on the foreigner point of view here because it seems to me that for many of us, when we became residents of a foreign country we developed our own little culture which is a mix of what we grew up with and what we have learned from the Mexican culture. Others have just stuck with what they know and some...well, they are practically Mexican now. It´s really interesting.

Great topic, Alanmexicali.

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VERY well said Betsy. Not all places in the US are the same and not all places here are. For example where we live in mexico state the crime rate is very high (even in the small pueblos), roads horrible compared to mose states in mexico, people unfriendly (just ask those from DF about the friendlienss of t oluca. This is in no way the representation of all of mexico, but not all places are the same. Perceptions are based on where you live, not reality of the whole country in any country..

I went to school and lived many places in the us, most very friendly. The wife (we) lived in NW arkansas for 2 years (the only place in the us) and says it's the best, most friendly place she has ever lived anywhere. She was shocked she experienced no racism, people are extremely friendly and helpful. At her work they went out of their way to do thing in spanish and in reality she says she experienced more problems from other spanish speaking first language people. I already knew that is the way it is.

I think white people must see far more racism, hear it from other people with racist talk, as we hear more from our own in the other direction. There is far more bigotry toward color of skin here, i don't expect non mexican light skinned people to see it though.

I have also seen the defensiveness here and anger if someone mentions mexico. You cannot fix problems without talking about them. What right does any individual have to tell someone else to leave a country if the talk about problems? It reminds me of those that ARE racists in the US. The fact is though that as a person of color I have experienced far less than many would have you believe. We were on a trip the end of last year and met a woman in oklahoma from Jalisco. My wife asked if she ever experienced racism there and she said, no people are very nice. She tipped us off on a free thrift store. Yes free, a little place called perry ok. We stopped to eat there and met her. They found out we were from mexico and loaded us down with free, many like new, cloths to take back. We gave most to a guy that helps people here. In reality I saw mor racism in CA than anywhere else.

My point is that I went to many places in the service and the us is not near as bad as people make it sound. Someone will probable tell me to leave mexico, but I will say "I was born here, get over yourself". To me these are people that do not really want to be a part of mexico, being the part of something involves trying to make changes for the better.

I am very perplexed by the animosity I see sometimes that foreigners have for their own countrymen . People sometimes have standards that they have set for themselves, I suppose, then proceed to judge other foreigners that don't meet those standards, or choose to experience Mexico in a manner different from their own . Sometimes people put Mexico and Mexicans on a pedestal high above their own country and countrymen, they get extremely defensive of any critical remarks and will even suggest that if there is something you don't like you should go back where you came from. I see that as lack of experience and hope they won't be too disappointed when they find out that the country and its citizens are just as flawed as the country they came from, just in different ways. Mexico doesn't need our approval on everything and if we don't like something we are free to say so, and then decide how to live with it.

I have the most difficult time understanding why foreigners object to people moving here for the weather or financial reasons or anything that is often defined as the "wrong" reasons...what's up with that? I hear it often and I don't get it why anyone cares or thinks its wrong.

There is a lot of snobbery among foreigners that speak Spanish against those that don't...While there is no question that having a good command of the language will increase your foreign living experience, it's just almost impossible for some people to learn a new language due to many factors, age among them. I am aware that some people just don't want to make the effort to learn Spanish or perhaps even really learn about the culture , possibly because it might distort their idyllic view of things.

Then there are the different perspectives about our "place" in our chosen country of residence...what rights that we do and don't have. A fierce need to reprimand people who want to inspire change in some areas that could clearly use a change. Mexico is a proud country that values tradition, but even the Mexicans want some things to grow and change and it is inevitable that the presence of foreigners in large numbers are going to influence, inspire or even cause some change, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Still, it might do us all good to keep remembering that the cultural differences are part of what attracted a lot of us to Mexico in the first place.

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The cement water basin in the laundry room with no draining hole on the fawcet side. I asked a Mexican lady about this and she answered "this is how we do it". Simple answer to a stupid question.

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The cement water basin in the laundry room with no draining hole on the fawcet side. I asked a Mexican lady about this and she answered "this is how we do it". Simple answer to a stupid question.

Every one went the philosophical way. Being a latin descendant, odd things are common occurrences but the cement water basin still hunts me.

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no one has a right to tell some else how to live, how to think. most retirees here really have nothing more to do than boss people around. (other expats). maybe being older that gives people an authorative attitude (??) tune out, say mind your business! in additional, there is too much patronizing of people of color. the majority of expats were never exposed to other cultures. they have no idea who is illiterate or who has a masters degree. many expats were kind of on the bottom before coming here. now its their chance to feel superior. meanwhile so many mexicans take advantage of them. i see the humor in this. also a reversal here: many mexicans are over qualified for the work they do. most americans are UNDER qualified. the guy who rakes leaves can have a higher intellect than some middle manager white guy, who went to some community college. what is pathetic is so many expats look to mexico as a form of identity. there wasnt much going on for them before, it gives them "a life"- a purpose. they have arrested development, its ALL good every day all day. before they found mexico everything was miserable, now the party begins. one persons party is someones else's real life. that's why there is resentment. no one wants to be a play doll. i mention this in response to the mexican american who commented. 100% correct. this post is not meant to be mean, just an observation.

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no one has a right to tell some else how to live, how to think. most retirees here really have nothing more to do than boss people around. (other expats). maybe being older that gives people an authorative attitude (??) tune out, say mind your business! in additional, there is too much patronizing of people of color. the majority of expats were never exposed to other cultures. they have no idea who is illiterate or who has a masters degree. many expats were kind of on the bottom before coming here. now its their chance to feel superior. meanwhile so many mexicans take advantage of them. i see the humor in this. also a reversal here: many mexicans are over qualified for the work they do. most americans are UNDER qualified. the guy who rakes leaves can have a higher intellect than some middle manager white guy, who went to some community college. what is pathetic is so many expats look to mexico as a form of identity. there wasnt much going on for them before, it gives them "a life"- a purpose. they have arrested development, its ALL good every day all day. before they found mexico everything was miserable, now the party begins. one persons party is someones else's real life. that's why there is resentment. no one wants to be a play doll. i mention this in response to the mexican american who commented. 100% correct. this post is not meant to be mean, just an observation.

I can see what you are saying Manny, but truthfully did not give it much thought. I did often wonder about the highly educated in Medicine, Drs etc. only working 4 hours a day though for institutionalized medicine in Mexico. Some teachers I know still only work 3 days a week, politics I presumed.

The Mexican American's view was also very insightful. My ex wife was Mexican and born in Mexicali. I have not seen much discrimination at all towards her in the US as some navy friends have, one married to my ex wife's in law, who married Mexicans or have Filipino wives that they experienced in their travels. Thanks for contributing your observances for all of us here.

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alanmexicali, i said the same thing on another forum many months ago. i had dozens of attacks. (guess i hit the nail on the collective head). there is racism on both sides. from both expats & the small town mexican people towards each other. since neither side has had too much exposure to a broad spectrum, they put everyone is a small box. the only place people say oaky dokey is here. i think i heard it on a cowboy show from the 1950s. this gives you an idea of the local mexican exposure to americans. also because i am american, that same mexican thinks i will pay 35,000 pesos for an electrical re wiring. when all i had was a short, a 5 minute job. but white folks are stupid folks, as they say to each other. it works the other way: some guy in chapala asked my mexican friend if she wanted to clean his house. this was her golden opportunity. she has a masters in business, & was visiting a relative. small town folk are small town folk across the board. no critical thinking involved, nothing else exists except what they know. which is usually next to nothing,

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alanmexicali, i said the same thing on another forum many months ago. i had dozens of attacks. (guess i hit the nail on the collective head). there is racism on both sides. from both expats & the small town mexican people towards each other. since neither side has had too much exposure to a broad spectrum, they put everyone is a small box. the only place people say oaky dokey is here. i think i heard it on a cowboy show from the 1950s. this gives you an idea of the local mexican exposure to americans. also because i am american, that same mexican thinks i will pay 35,000 pesos for an electrical re wiring. when all i had was a short, a 5 minute job. but white folks are stupid folks, as they say to each other. it works the other way: some guy in chapala asked my mexican friend if she wanted to clean his house. this was her golden opportunity. she has a masters in business, & was visiting a relative. small town folk are small town folk across the board. no critical thinking involved, nothing else exists except what they know. which is usually next to nothing,

I am aware, to a degree, of light or white skinned Mexicans and the morenos or moreno claros setup both in San Diego and Mexicali/TJ but not really in San Luis Potosi which has more than 85% to 90% morenos in all places that I travel in the city and state, more in some places in the state are morenos, a generalization, but I still see only the clothes, cars, demeanor as being noticed as to rank here as of yet. [sLP 4 years] [30+ years in Mexicali/TJ]

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alan there are some mexicans here who are european, german french decent. some from spain. some are wealthy a few are poor. mostly mixed blood, & indian negro mix in chapala etc. mexico & south america is racist. the lighter the person more op's to get ahead. maybe its changing? interesting to note: one 5 star hotel in new york & one 4 1/2 star hotel in mexico: upper management, & publicity= white european decent, college educated. front desk reception= white educated. lower management & waiters = mixed blood. kitchen help bus boys maids= dark. both hotels are owned by corporate luxury chains. guess new york is as racist as south america (@least in the hotel world), that surprised me.

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