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livinglovingmexico

The Truth About Safety in Mexico

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They seem to not show the murder rates. Mexico is far ahead in that factor. However, Mexico is about 10% of that figure in Venezuela, who has by far the worst murder rate in the western world. Everything is relative.

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There is a fair and balance report in todays Globe and Mail ref violence in Mexico....

""""However, this fact alone does not make the country more dangerous than other popular sunny destinations – or indeed other parts of the world. The odds of Canadian visitors to Mexico being assaulted or killed are about 2.1 per 100,000, based on data from 2005-2009. That is lower than in Jamaica (3.6 per 100,000), India (7.5 per 100,000), South Africa (5 per 100,000) and Russia (3.2). It is slightly higher than Cuba (1.5 per 100,000) and the Dominican Republic (1.6).""""

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Very hard to comapre when majority of tourists come for generally 1 week or maximum two and often stay inside a resort complex with little venturing out. Meanwhile, even the rate Toby gave above is higher than the murder rate in Canada.

I am personally not foolish enough to think I am as safe in Mexico as I am in Canada but at same time this is home and I will be wise enough to do my best to stay safe.

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The article forgot to add two other important crime rate figures; highest random mall shootings (like the one in Oregon a few days ago) and highest school shooting deaths, like today's killing of 20 students and 6 adults in an elementary school in Newtown Connecticut.

Something tells me the U.S. would be a shoo-in for first place.....

G

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The article forgot to add two other important crime rate figures; highest random mall shootings (like the one in Oregon a few days ago) and highest school shooting deaths, like today's killing of 20 students and 6 adults in an elementary school in Newtown Connecticut.

Something tells me the U.S. would be a shoo-in for first place.....

G

Let's not ever forget the 19 innocentes from various lakeside villages that were randomly kidnapped then tortured and dismembered and their bodies left on the highway just outside of Ajijic about 6 months ago.

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While I appreciate the intention to reassure behind the article, the first thing that comes to mind in reading it is the old saw about "lies, damn lies and statistics." Where do these "reported" crime rates come from - and what, if anything, do they mean? - in a country where 90% + of crimes go unreported and more than that go unsolved?

As "Ajijic" points out, it's one thing to be a tourist for a week or two and quite another to reside her full-time. Without a doubt Mexico - for expats, at any rate - feels and probably is safer than many places in the U.S. (Canada is very much another matter!), but one also must be willing to live with the reality that when and if one is a victim there's basically no recourse. Mexicans meanwhile have to live with not only that reality but also with knowing far more about what is actually going on and in most cases having no option of a "Plan B" of moving somewhere else. This recent article gives a good sense of the reality on the ground:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/mexico/9711317/Mexicos-drug-war-a-poet-and-the-people-fight-back.html

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90% of crime in Mexico is unreported due to people not knowing and the hassle of having to hire an interpreter and wait hours to report it and then for nothing to happen.

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90% of crime in Mexico is unreported due to people not knowing and the hassle of having to hire an interpreter and wait hours to report it and then for nothing to happen.

Thank you Spencer. Seems like it boils down to a matter of willingness to live a bit dangerously and watching your back or sticking your head in the sand.

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Let's not ever forget the 19 innocentes from various lakeside villages that were randomly kidnapped then tortured and dismembered and their bodies left on the highway just outside of Ajijic about 6 months ago.

Nor the twenty children slaughtered yesterday in a kintergarden in "safe" Connecticut" by one insane maniac with automatic assault weapons belonging to his wealthy kindergarten teaching mother he had just slaughtered. Nor the pig farm in British Columbia awash in rotting human corpses. Get off your high horse.

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Nor the twenty children slaughtered yesterday in a kintergarden in "safe" Connecticut" by one insane maniac with automatic assault weapons belonging to his wealthy kindergarten teaching mother he had just slaughtered. Nor the pig farm in British Columbia awash in rotting human corpses. Get off your high horse.

M

Let's not ever forget the 19 innocentes from various lakeside villages that were randomly kidnapped then tortured and dismembered and their bodies left on the highway just outside of Ajijic about 6 months ago.

My response was to Guss who mentioned the same incidents as you repeated. My post was not in any way meant to 'rank' which country is capable of the worst atrocity. It was to point out that atrocities happen everywhere. Sadly.

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While I appreciate the intention to reassure behind the article, the first thing that comes to mind in reading it is the old saw about "lies, damn lies and statistics." Where do these "reported" crime rates come from - and what, if anything, do they mean? - in a country where 90% + of crimes go unreported and more than that go unsolved?

As "Ajijic" points out, it's one thing to be a tourist for a week or two and quite another to reside her full-time. Without a doubt Mexico - for expats, at any rate - feels and probably is safer than many places in the U.S. (Canada is very much another matter!), but one also must be willing to live with the reality that when and if one is a victim there's basically no recourse. Mexicans meanwhile have to live with not only that reality but also with knowing far more about what is actually going on and in most cases having no option of a "Plan B" of moving somewhere else. This recent article gives a good sense of the reality on the ground:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/mexico/9711317/Mexicos-drug-war-a-poet-and-the-people-fight-back.html

The ultimate reality is that there isn't any recourse or justice in any true sense of the word, anywhere. Capturing and convicting criminals may bring solace to some, but it doesn't make your loved one any less dead. Consequences don't seem to deter criminals in America as the U.S. has 5% of the world's population but 25% of the world's incarcerated population. Some figures say as high as one in every 32 American adults is behind bars, on probation or on parole, or 700 + per 100,000 are in jail.

What is ultimately being experienced is a breakdown in society as a whole, meaing there is no "plan B" for Mexicans or any group, no paradisiacal haven to run to. Speaking of plan B's, I guess China is out of the question since yesterday they also had their own school massacre where a man stabbed 22 children in an elementary school.

G

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.............I guess China is out of the question since yesterday they also had their own school massacre where a man stabbed 22 children in an elementary school.

G

That is also a horrible event, but there were no deaths as a result of the stabbings.

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That is also a horrible event, but there were no deaths as a result of the stabbings.

Not so fast grasshoppa.

While there were no deaths in this particular stabbing, there were many stabbing fatalities (20-30 deaths, and more than 90 injuries) involving elementary and pre-school children in 2010 and 2011 in China. A series of unrelated mass stabbings perpetrated by, among others, a teacher and a doctor began in March of 2010. Cleavers, machetes, axes, and box-cutters were sited in some of the attacks. In one daycare center an attacker killed a four year-old little girl with a hammer.

Speaking of bizarre crimes, less than 24 hours after the Connecticut school massacre there was another public shooting in an Alabama hospital. Three people were shot but thankfully none fatally.

The only things that change are geography and methodology but the disturbing trend of worldwide decline charges on unabated.

G

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The only things that change are geography and methodology but the disturbing trend of worldwide decline charges on unabated.

Absolutely correct. I'm glad I'm not young. Everyone's children and grandchildren face a bleak future IMO. We are in a megatrend of social and economic decline world wide.

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http://books.google.com.mx/books?hl=en&lr=&id=AmwiS8HZeRIC&oi=fnd&pg=PT216&dq=social+deprivation+trend+of+worldwide+decline&ots=yZHBc4NrLZ&sig=rSKko_gRTJDrNtuSNeD3cptP1pU&redir_esc=y

Absolutely correct. I'm glad I'm not young. Everyone's children and grandchildren face a bleak future IMO. We are in a megatrend of social and economic decline world wide.

As the richer segment of a population control government policies it will continue. IMO

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Has nothing to do with class or class envy. Has everything to do with overpopulation, break down in civility and the rule of law, moral breakdown, and technology that is automating away jobs.

It never fails to amaze me that some think they can solve the world's problems by taking from one group and giving to another.

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For some reason, I'm unable to edit the previous post, so I'll put the changes here:

Has nothing to do with class or class envy. Has everything to do with overpopulation, break down in civility and the rule of law, moral breakdown, and technology that is automating away jobs. It has nothing to do with politics and it is happening all over, both in countries with high tax rates and big social programs and those that have neither.

It has a lot to do with the fact that bad news and bad ideas (namely those that make things worse for most) disseminate almost instantaneously now. The mass media really do degrade cultural mores.

Had an interesting philosophy class many, many years ago. The prof discussed the bacteria in a test tube experiment and opined that humanity as a group is basically the same. This experiment involves a test tube of nutrient broth into which a few bacteria are seeded. The bacteria population expands exponentially until it overwhelms itself and its environment and then it collapses.

Socially, the "too many rats in a cage" experiment demonstrates that when there are too many rats in too little space, the "society" degenerates into psychosis and murder, even if all have enough food. That sorta reminds me of a lot of places these days too.

Toffler's "Megatrends" concept is proving out big time now.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus

I never bought into the Mathus Theory as a "real" future problem. Techonology solves many of his negative hypotheses quite nicely. If you see a world as an overpopulated immoral mess, so be it. Many countries have NEVER had it so good as today. Where do they fall into your theory of decline? People are bombarded by instant news as their chosing in maybe 15% of the world´s population, Where do the other 85% fall into your theory? Generalizing a decline based on your assumptions is futile and incomplete.IMO

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I just watch what is going on. Maybe you should try doing likewise.

What is your definition of "having it good?" Mexico, for example, has a bigger middle class but also has had 50,000 people (or more) die as a result of narco-criminals and the government fighting over the last three years. This is your idea of having it better?

Is the Middle East having it better these days as one country after another succumbs to chaos and Sharia dictatorship?

I sure hope you aren't going to pretend the U.S. is improving. What, 50 million killed via abortion and the biggest collection of drug users on the planet? A gun in every drawer?

Europe with its double digit unemployment and rising? China with its sweatshops and murderous dictatorship?

Just where do you think things are improving and what is your criteria for that? More material stuff?

Only place I know of that is doing better economically now is the former Eastern Europe and paradoxically, Russia. But all of them and all of us are experiencing and witnessing accelerating social decay.

You don't have to look far at all, just around the corner. For example, do you think that having most major cities in the "developed" world covered with graffiti is an indication that we as a species are improving socially? Have you noticed what has happened in this regard to GDL in just the last few years? I'll bet it has happened right there where you live in SLP as well.

This ain't progress and it won't be solved by wealth confiscation or by misplaced tolerance of anti-sociality.

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(Edited by moderator to remove political reference)

Some people want to be narcos and go around killing people. A lot of Americans want to buy drugs from narcos and thereby contribute to the former's going around killing people. Some Americans want to spend money they don't have and then stick someone else with the tab. Other Americans want to go into countries where they have no business being and shoot people.

Is that having things better? Until someone puts a bullet in them, I would wager that the narcos think so. And the druggies have a great time until they land in the gutter. At which point it is pretty obvious that their former status wasn't "better." Some folks thought that "mission accomplished" was having it better until it blew up in their faces.

BTW, I'll bet you even missed the contradiction in your apparent desire to take from one group and give to another in order, in your mind apparently, to make things "better" when in the same breath you are telling us how great things are now. If things are so great now, why is this necessary or desirable?

You might want to read up on what happened here in Mexico when some politicians spent money they didn't have and ended up having to grossly devaluate their currency and wipe out the savings of a lot of folks at the time. To their credit, Mexico seems to have learned the lesson from this

The Canadians seemed to have learned a similar lesson some time ago and stopped spending money they don't have and started paying their debts, without going over the cliff like Mexico did

I think the Americans are on a path to learn this lesson in the near future and I hope you have personally protected yourself from the consequences thereof. And no, it won't matter one whit what the partisan label is when the money runs out.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus

I never bought into the Mathus Theory as a "real" future problem. Techonology solves many of his negative hypotheses quite nicely. If you see a world as an overpopulated immoral mess, so be it. Many countries have NEVER had it so good as today. Where do they fall into your theory of decline? People are bombarded by instant news as their chosing in maybe 15% of the world´s population, Where do the other 85% fall into your theory? Generalizing a decline based on your assumptions is futile and incomplete.IMO

The Paradox of Our Time

The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller buildings, but

shorter tempers; wider freeways, but narrower viewpoints; we spend

more, but have less; we buy more, but enjoy it less.

We have bigger houses and smaller families; more conveniences, but

less time; we have more degrees, but less sense; more knowledge, but

less judgment; more experts, but more problems; more medicine, but less wellness.

We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too recklessly, laugh too

little, drive too fast, get angry to quickly, stay up too late, get up too

tired, read too seldom, watch TV too much, and pray too seldom.

We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our values. We talk

too much, love to seldom, and hate too often. We've learned how to

make a living, but not a life; we've added years to life, not life to years.

We've been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing

the street to meet the new neighbor. We've conquered outer space, but

not inner space; we've done larger things, but not better things.

We've cleaned up the air; but polluted the soul; we've split the atom, but

not our prejudice.

We write more, but learn less; we plan more, but accomplish less.

We've learned to rush, but not to wait; we have higher incomes, but

lower morals; we have more food, but less appeasement; we build

more computers to hold more information to produce more copies than

ever, but have less communication; we've become long on quantity, but

low on quality.

These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion; tall men, and

short character; steep profits, and shallow relationships. These are the

times of world peace, but domestic warfare; more leisure, but less fun;

more kinds of food, but less nutrition.

These are the days of two incomes, but more divorce; of fancier houses,

but broken homes. These are days of quick trips, disposable diapers,

throw away morality, one-night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that

do everything from cheer to quiet to kill.

It is a time when there is much in the show window but nothing in the

stockroom; a time when technology has brought this letter to you, and a

time when you can choose to make a difference, or to just hit delete.....

G

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The paradox of our time in history is that some of us have more stuff on the outside, but less stuff on the inside.

That's not about stuffing our bellies or much about safety in Mexico, but it might have something to do with the growing polarization of haves and have nots.

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Ah, it is all the GOP's fault. Forget about those trillion dollar deficits and 8 million people who have given up looking for work in the last 4 years. Or the millions more who are now making do with part time, no benefit jobs,

No politics on this board, Alan, you should know that after 346 posts. Pity you haven't also figured out that regardless of the label, the outcomes for the declining state of America seem to be depressingly the same.

I notice you couldn't answer the question as to where things are so great. Even when I helped you out with it.

Some people want to be narcos and go around killing people. A lot of Americans want to buy drugs from narcos and thereby contribute to the former's going around killing people. Some Americans want to spend money they don't have and then stick someone else with the tab. Other Americans want to go into countries where they have no business being and shoot people.

Is that having things better? Until someone puts a bullet in them, I would wager that the narcos think so. And the druggies have a great time until they land in the gutter. At which point it is pretty obvious that their former status wasn't "better." Some folks thought that "mission accomplished" was having it better until it blew up in their faces.

If you throw a frog into a pot of boiling water he will jump out. But if you place a frog into a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat, the frog will boil to death......Some people have a great capacity at becoming acclimatized to troubling situations to the point of eventually accepting them as normal.

As the wife often says: "No hay peor ciego que el que no quiere ver" (None are more blind than those who refuse to see)

G

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The paradox of our time in history is that some of us have more stuff on the outside, but less stuff on the inside.

That's not about stuffing our bellies or much about safety in Mexico, but it might have something to do with the growing polarization of haves and have nots.

The Paradox of Our Time, while not addressing safety or social decay directly, hits the nail on the head about the anomalies in modern affluent societies and gives us some ideas as to how things can quickly go awry amidst the profusion of "technological advances" Alan spoke about, making it very relevant to public safety.

The OP's article was not only about safety in Mexico but also to how it related to safety in comparison to the United States. This seems to always bring out comments from those who balk at the mere thought of comparing what is typified as an advanced and safe first world country, the U.S., with that of a violent and backwards third world country, like Mexico. Hypocrisy has been called the outside of cynicism, and in light of recent events in the U.S., it was just too easy to point out the blatant double standard that habitually seeks to hold the U.S.(and others) above reproach.

G

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