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Letting Guns "Walk"


Ajijic

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Wow 177 views and no commentary about the ATF's role in bringing guns across the border?

Maybe this could explain why the Stratfor report (per Borderland Beat) reported that the ATF was unable to trace and locate many of the guns confiscated in Mexico due to missing serial numbers. Those "untraceable" guns could have been "walked" across the border with the ATF's permission. I doubt if the ATF is going to put forth much effort to identify themselves as the source of guns to Mexico that have been responsible for the murders of 35,000 police, citizens, and narcos.

However, when one American ICE agent was murdered in Mexico, the ATF was able to trace that gun to a Texas Narco gunrunner despite the fact that the serial numbers had been removed. Hmmm.

Of course all of the US conservative right is quick to jump on this as a failure of the current administration policies when the truth be known, the conservative right could care less about 35,000 deaths in Mexico.

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Wow 177 views and no commentary about the ATF's role in bringing guns across the border?

Maybe this could explain why the Stratfor report (per Borderland Beat) reported that the ATF was unable to trace and locate many of the guns confiscated in Mexico due to missing serial numbers. Those "untraceable" guns could have been "walked" across the border with the ATF's permission. I doubt if the ATF is going to put forth much effort to identify themselves as the source of guns to Mexico that have been responsible for the murders of 35,000 police, citizens, and narcos.

However, when one American ICE agent was murdered in Mexico, the ATF was able to trace that gun to a Texas Narco gunrunner despite the fact that the serial numbers had been removed. Hmmm.

Of course all of the US conservative right is quick to jump on this as a failure of the current administration policies when the truth be known, the conservative right could care less about 35,000 deaths in Mexico.

You can never get rid of a stamped serial number, the USA government has ways of finding the serial number through very strong microscopes and other ways to pull out the serial number.

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Wow 177 views and no commentary about the ATF's role in bringing guns across the border?

Maybe this could explain why the Stratfor report (per Borderland Beat) reported that the ATF was unable to trace and locate many of the guns confiscated in Mexico due to missing serial numbers. Those "untraceable" guns could have been "walked" across the border with the ATF's permission. I doubt if the ATF is going to put forth much effort to identify themselves as the source of guns to Mexico that have been responsible for the murders of 35,000 police, citizens, and narcos.

However, when one American ICE agent was murdered in Mexico, the ATF was able to trace that gun to a Texas Narco gunrunner despite the fact that the serial numbers had been removed. Hmmm.

Of course all of the US conservative right is quick to jump on this as a failure of the current administration policies when the truth be known, the conservative right could care less about 35,000 deaths in Mexico.

maybe cartels are using the same tactics that work so well south of the border...

maybe they said something like this to ATF agents:

"if you dont allow these guns through- we will kill you and your family..."

could that be a possibility?

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Wow 177 views and no commentary about the ATF's role in bringing guns across the border?

Maybe this could explain why the Stratfor report (per Borderland Beat) reported that the ATF was unable to trace and locate many of the guns confiscated in Mexico due to missing serial numbers. Those "untraceable" guns could have been "walked" across the border with the ATF's permission. I doubt if the ATF is going to put forth much effort to identify themselves as the source of guns to Mexico that have been responsible for the murders of 35,000 police, citizens, and narcos.

However, when one American ICE agent was murdered in Mexico, the ATF was able to trace that gun to a Texas Narco gunrunner despite the fact that the serial numbers had been removed. Hmmm.

Of course all of the US conservative right is quick to jump on this as a failure of the current administration policies when the truth be known, the conservative right could care less about 35,000 deaths in Mexico.

Seems there is often a "disconnect" in the ability of the gov to do things. Consider the fact they can't find people in the US illegally yet they are able to trace mad cow down to the cow and stall it was born in, go figure.
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You're getting one now. I'm not even surprised. What do they care how many are killed in Mx. Not until an ICE agent is killed does our government even seem a bit interested. It's disgusting.

Karen what do you want us to do invade? The Mexican gov needs to do their part and stop all the corruption from the top down, believe me when I say this, we have been and are involved but you and I will never know who and where they are. The US probably knows who is on the take from the top down but they will not get involved until the right time comes. BTW Mexico need to stop the drugs from coming in from the south, that might help a little.

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I am heartsick by the report from the agent in AZ saying guns into MX were encouraged,even ordered. Yet, conversely, I also feel I understand the thinking behind the effort to track guns and therefore catch the bad guys/drug cartels-murdering maniacs! I know we all agree, in any country, they have got to be stopped!

Here is another case of ideas and reality clashing: as in 'disconnect'; it has always been true in large bureacracies, and always will be unfortunately. It seems that ideas at the top, filter down slowly to the reality of operation and productionand usefulness. So sad that in this case it led to real-life killings of real-life people. Does it surprise us that top levels do not know what the result will be in actuality? I am sure those poor folks working in the corporate world know what I am talking about. Workers in the lower ranks are not asked often enough for their opinions.

Too many layers of management are a problem in the USA government operations, and probably everywhere in government and some business. 3M, a successful company by most standards in the US at least, has less then 6 people between the President and the worker bees. Anyone, reportedly, can walk into the Pres' office for a chat!

Now the spin begins; sadly, probably, to get away from taking responsibility for a bad idea in this decision to sell guns and tracking them. Nevermind that it may have already led to hundreds of arrests, the idea hits the dust with the life lost and media involved. Who wants media attention when you are elected? OUCH!

But, maybe, initially, it was not a bad idea. How do we catch these sadistic murderers? Put your own ideas out there, into action, before criticising those in gov trying to help us all!

Glad to hear from you, with respect,

suz

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How do we catch these sadistic murderers? Put your own ideas out there, into action, before criticising those in gov trying to help us all!

Glad to hear from you, with respect,

suz

I hope you are referring to the USA, not Mexico, when you say this. Those of us who are not Mexican citizens cannot politically be involved--in any way.

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You're getting one now. I'm not even surprised. What do they care how many are killed in Mx. Not until an ICE agent is killed does our government even seem a bit interested. It's disgusting.

The US gvt. is and has been interested--and involved.

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found this link looking to see where the guns were coming from since there seems to be no manufacturing on such a large scale in the states. found that these companies are buying up surplus weapons from all over the world, sometimes by the ton, and refurbishing them in the usa. see what you think....this info is available to the main stream journalists too.

www.publicintegrity.org/articles/entry/2857

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Seems there is often a "disconnect" in the ability of the gov to do things. Consider the fact they can't find people in the US illegally yet they are able to trace mad cow down to the cow and stall it was born in, go figure.

Surely you cannot believe this.

Undocumented workers are found every day and many are deported after due processes.

Many are unreported because they'll work for less than any US citizen - and they'll keep quiet about the hours and the pay and the abuse - all to support their families.

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I don't think that microscopes are the answer; and "x-ray" surely was tongue-in-cheek, no?

I heard years ago that stamping a serial number into the steel of a gun compressed the metal and allowed experts to read it even when the surface was filed off. Checking this with an Internet search, I found this information -- which confirms what I learned back then:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_you_recover_the_serial_number_of_a_gun_if_it_has_worn_off

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I don't think that microscopes are the answer; and "x-ray" surely was tongue-in-cheek, no?

I heard years ago that stamping a serial number into the steel of a gun compressed the metal and allowed experts to read it even when the surface was filed off. Checking this with an Internet search, I found this information -- which confirms what I learned back then:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_you_recover_the_serial_number_of_a_gun_if_it_has_worn_off

Here, read this and all of us will learn something. I am not sure xray can but I would think it could work, I have seen where they used a microscope to get a file number off a gun, I am sure they use other things in the process but they can retrieve the filed serial number.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Forensic-Ballistics---Recovering-Hidden-Serial-Numbers-From-Firearms&id=917211

To develop the science of firearms comparison, the most important tool was the microscope. The earliest crude microscopes were invented in the 1600s, allowing a magnification of ten to twenty times, but images were still blurred. The invention of the compound microscope that relied on multiple lenses fused together improved the situation, as optics magnification and clarity increased exponentially.

From years of data collection and experiments, firearms identification specialists can:

1. Compare bullets and match them to a specific firearm

2. Accurately estimate the distance of a shooting

3. Detect gunpowder residue around wounds and on shooters

4. Restore obliterated serial numbers

The following is based on information from numerous crime scene investigation and evidence manuals, a tour of two crime lab firearms sections, as well as books like Bodies of Evidence, Hidden Evidence, and Practical Homicide Investigation.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/ballistics/3.html

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have raised worn off patent numbers from metal. A little sulfuric acid. A magnifying glass helped read them. Furthermore, each handgun has it's own unique 'finger print' based on rifling of barrel. This leaves a ballistics trail. Some laws have been proposed to have all new hand guns recorded this way. Last I heard no such law has been passed due to gun lobby (NRA) and 'infringement on personal rights.'. However, it would be simple for ATF or whoever to test each before 'releasing' them to go south. A no-brainer to track them.

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Here, read this and all of us will learn something. I am not sure xray can but I would think it could work, I have seen where they used a microscope to get a file number off a gun, I am sure they use other things in the process but they can retrieve the filed serial number.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Forensic-Ballistics---Recovering-Hidden-Serial-Numbers-From-Firearms&id=917211

To develop the science of firearms comparison, the most important tool was the microscope. The earliest crude microscopes were invented in the 1600s, allowing a magnification of ten to twenty times, but images were still blurred. The invention of the compound microscope that relied on multiple lenses fused together improved the situation, as optics magnification and clarity increased exponentially.

From years of data collection and experiments, firearms identification specialists can:

1. Compare bullets and match them to a specific firearm

2. Accurately estimate the distance of a shooting

3. Detect gunpowder residue around wounds and on shooters

4. Restore obliterated serial numbers

The following is based on information from numerous crime scene investigation and evidence manuals, a tour of two crime lab firearms sections, as well as books like Bodies of Evidence, Hidden Evidence, and Practical Homicide Investigation.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/ballistics/3.html

I have raised worn off patent numbers from metal. A little sulfuric acid. A magnifying glass helps to read result. Furthermore, each handgun has a unique 'finger print' based on rifling of barrel. Simple for ATF, or whoever, to record characteristics of each gun sent south and track them. Laws have been proposed to require such registration for new handgun sales. Last I heard, no law has passed due to gun lobby (NRA) and protest over infringing on personal rights.

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X-Ray.

The last time I crossed the border, female alone dragging 24 ft camper, my entire vehicle was exrayed on the mexican side. I had a steel hook, a type to be mounted on the wall to hang things on, lying in a cabinet. Evidently, in the x-ray it looked like a gun. They drew their weapons on me and when they found what it was they all had a good laugh. When I say "all" that does not include me.

They did not x-ray all vehicles, it seemed.

My ex-chapala-cop friend says that guns are like traffic tickets, pay up and you walk, gun and all. In my opinion, this is where the real problem is and it is up to Mexico and it's inhabitants to solve it.

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The last time I crossed the border, female alone dragging 24 ft camper, my entire vehicle was exrayed on the mexican side. I had a steel hook, a type to be mounted on the wall to hang things on, lying in a cabinet. Evidently, in the x-ray it looked like a gun. They drew their weapons on me and when they found what it was they all had a good laugh. When I say "all" that does not include me.

They did not x-ray all vehicles, it seemed.

My ex-chapala-cop friend says that guns are like traffic tickets, pay up and you walk, gun and all. In my opinion, this is where the real problem is and it is up to Mexico and it's inhabitants to solve it.

I would be interested in talking to your ex-chapala-cop friend.

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Here, read this and all of us will learn something. I am not sure xray can but I would think it could work, I have seen where they used a microscope to get a file number off a gun, I am sure they use other things in the process but they can retrieve the filed serial number.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Forensic-Ballistics---Recovering-Hidden-Serial-Numbers-From-Firearms&id=917211

To develop the science of firearms comparison, the most important tool was the microscope. The earliest crude microscopes were invented in the 1600s, allowing a magnification of ten to twenty times, but images were still blurred. The invention of the compound microscope that relied on multiple lenses fused together improved the situation, as optics magnification and clarity increased exponentially.

From years of data collection and experiments, firearms identification specialists can:

1. Compare bullets and match them to a specific firearm

2. Accurately estimate the distance of a shooting

3. Detect gunpowder residue around wounds and on shooters

4. Restore obliterated serial numbers

The following is based on information from numerous crime scene investigation and evidence manuals, a tour of two crime lab firearms sections, as well as books like Bodies of Evidence, Hidden Evidence, and Practical Homicide Investigation.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/ballistics/3.html

My post called into question the use of x-ray and microscopes for restoring serial numbers. Neither of the sites you offered supports that claim.

Whereas the second site indeed cites evidence from microscopic examination, that information deals with ballistics and identification of weapons that have fired specific rounds (not with serial numbers), which was never a point of contention.

To the point, quoting from your own sources: "The examiner grinds the metal down past the deepest scrapes to get a strip of polished metal. He or she then applies a solution of copper salts and hydrochloric acid, and that makes the strained area just beneath the stamped number dissolve at a faster rate than the metal around it. That temporarily brings up the number (or a partial), making it available for a photograph before it disappears."

This illustrates that it is not the microscope, but rather the chemicals applied, that render the serial number readable.

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