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deroyam

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I didn't see anything unfair or unbalanced in the article. Narco violence in Guadalajara is very much on the upswing. Narco banners have been put up - saying certain officials need to resign by Thursday or the hunt begins. Narco killings are now happening daily. More than a few. And what concerns me is that it is slowly getting worse - and no end in sight.

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In articles like this I wish they would add that over 43,000 people die from gun violence every year in the USA. Fair and balanced?

I think mentioning the 8+ million people in the GDL area would be nice too.

There was a good article in Time magazine recently about gun violence and other things that happen in the USA that don't get talked about so much.

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That's my point; 34,000 have died, mostly narcos, since Calderone started fighting the "war on drugs" using the Army. In the USA the "war on drugs" is fought with endless words and little action. In four years 34,000 have died in Mexico while in the USA (with no shooting war) 43,000 die EVERY YEAR. Who's got the bigger problem?

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I must say that from my personal perspective I don't care what country, city or town has the biggest problem. I am concerned about the problems I have got where I live.

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In articles like this I wish they would add that over 43,000 people die from gun violence every year in the USA. Fair and balanced?

I saw nothing unfair or unbalanced. The article was about Guad, not about crime comparison in the US or elsewhere. The underlying missive seemed to be...what's gonna happen in October? Let the games begin...

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I must say that from my personal perspective I don't care what country, city or town has the biggest problem. I am concerned about the problems I have got where I live.

Very true, you need to be worried about whats happening around where you live not comparing places that mean nothing to you, for us that never plan to move back where we came from it's a moot point comparing other places.

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In articles like this I wish they would add that over 43,000 people die from gun violence every year in the USA. Fair and balanced?

The article was obviously written because Guadalajara had largely been spared the narco violence that has engulfed other parts of the country over the past 4-5 years. The author was comparing the situation now in Guadalajara with what it has been in the past, not suggesting that Guadalajara is more safe or unsafe than any place else.

And not that it matters, but the FBI publishes comprehensive crime statistics and the total number of murders by firearms of all types in the US for 2009 was 9,146. Maybe if you include suicides and accidents the number of gun deaths might reach 42,000 but I doubt it.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/index.html

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The article was obviously written because Guadalajara had largely been spared the narco violence that has engulfed other parts of the country over the past 4-5 years. The author was comparing the situation now in Guadalajara with what it has been in the past, not suggesting that Guadalajara is more safe or unsafe than any place else.

And not that it matters, but the FBI publishes comprehensive crime statistics and the total number of murders by firearms of all types in the US for 2009 was 9,146. Maybe if you include suicides and accidents the number of gun deaths might reach 42,000 but I doubt it.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/index.html

but the article is definitely slanted toward selling newspapers. It sounds like all of Guad is hunkering down in their homes and hiding their kids while the bad guys sack the city.

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How many gun related deaths in the U.S. annually:

According to the CDC in 2006, Last up to date numbers, 30,896 total, of which, 642 accidental, 16,883 were Suicide, 12,791 were Homicide, 220 were Undetermined and 360 by Legal intervention. Remember that in the same year, 43,664 were killed in Motor vehicle accidents, 37,286 died from poisoning, 20,823 died from unintentional falls. In 2005 CDC reported 652,091 people died from heart disease, 559,312 from cancer and 143,579 from stroke.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/In_America_how_many_deaths_are_caused_by_guns_annually#ixzz1DZpqxOhF

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Not to mention the fact that the population of the U.S. is nearly three times that of Mexico. On a per capita basis, I'm afraid Mexico doesn't look too good by comparison.

UNTIL you start comparing them to places like Brazil, Guatemala, Honduras, etc. and you realize things could be a lot worse.

Let's don't be unrealistic here and pretend that there isn't a problem here that is quite different from that of the U.S. I prefer to take the optimistic viewpoint and believe that the very level of violence proves that these groups are in serious trouble and the government and military is laying on some heavy hits. Smart criminals don't expose themselves in public the way these people have been doing. Sooner or later, they're going to run out of cannon fodder.

Keep your head down and this too will pass.

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Not to mention the fact that the population of the U.S. is nearly three times that of Mexico. On a per capita basis, I'm afraid Mexico doesn't look too good by comparison.

UNTIL you start comparing them to places like Brazil, Guatemala, Honduras, etc. and you realize things could be a lot worse.

Let's don't be unrealistic here and pretend that there isn't a problem here that is quite different from that of the U.S. I prefer to take the optimistic viewpoint and believe that the very level of violence proves that these groups are in serious trouble and the government and military is laying on some heavy hits. Smart criminals don't expose themselves in public the way these people have been doing. Sooner or later, they're going to run out of cannon fodder.

Keep your head down and this too will pass.

Not too long ago, 3 months maybe, a report came out on countries the most safe from crime and countries the most unsafe. Accordng to the statistics in the report the US was considered safer than Mexico, and Mexico was considered safer than Colombia or Brazil, and a few other South American countries. Sorry, I didn't save it, though if someone were truly interested, they could probably google it up.

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That's my point; 34,000 have died, mostly narcos, since Calderone started fighting the "war on drugs" using the Army. In the USA the "war on drugs" is fought with endless words and little action. In four years 34,000 have died in Mexico while in the USA (with no shooting war) 43,000 die EVERY YEAR. Who's got the bigger problem?

who has the bigger problem? you are kidding, right?

while i am no big fan of the US- i do live here- and was planning to move to the lake area with my wife and kids for more than a year now... but we have put our plans on hold because it seems obvious enough from here that mexico currently has some much larger problems that have been getting exponentially worse and will surely continue to get worse for the foreseeable future...

your question about who's got the bigger problems got me thinking... just off the top of my head:

i havent locked the door to my house or my car door for at least 15 years living in and around a fairly major city here in the US... that is because we feel very safe doing so... might not be very smart-- but crime doesnt even cross our radar-- we don't have bars on the windows or have to worry about our bank machines being compromised, or need, as i once read here, a live in security guard to protect us---

murders are a rarity in this area...

petty crime that is fairly common there in mexico- is also relatively rare here...

the US is not living in the middle of a barbaric drug war...

the US has over 310 million people... mexico's population is around 112 million...

the US has 80 people per sq mile... mexico has 142 people per sq mile...

the US seems to still have some semblance of rule of law... when police are called, they typically respond in haste...

the US does not see captured criminals broken out of jail or released by police, prison officials or other cartel cronies...

US mayors, sheriffs and police are not being kidnapped and/or dismembered on a seemingly weekly basis...

US officials lives are not being publicly threatened by drug cartels who demand they work with them or die...

US does not suffer from beheadings and body dismemberment with notes attached to murdered bodies that are sometimes spread in front of schools or hung from bridges...

US does not suffer from highway roadblocks designed to plunder, murder, or terrorize...

US spends about 9.7% of disposable income on food--- mexico spends about 22%... with corn prices rising 52% and wheat prices rising 47%, mexicans will spend an average of 50% of income on food... this does not bode well for an already impoverished and hungry nation...

mexico's government gets 40% of its income from oil... domestic consumption will force its exports to drop to zero within a few years... this adds even more pressure on mexico government's ability to fund security forces or feed its hungry or fund medical care... this is also bad for the US- especially border states- and since the US imports a lot of oil from mexico, this spells disaster for the US economy...

considering these things--- i would say that mexico has a lot more problems than the US...

murder is alive and well here in the US... but i guess that all depends on where you live... it has never been an interest of mine to live in unsafe areas... or to monitor whether or not i am making myself a target for crime...

all that being said--- it breaks my heart that our dream of moving to mexico seems to be slowly slipping away because of the lawlessness and encroaching insanity into even more areas of that country... which will most likely be affecting more and more expats as the days and months go on...

i know a lot of you are sticking there and can provide good arguments as to why you are-- i just pray that you stay safe and realize the real potential that the 'unwritten rule' that expats have nothing to fear, will probably be broken as the days go by...

reminds me of the boiling frog analogy:

throw a frog into a boiling pot of water and it will jump out immediately...

put the frog into a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat- and it will lay there and blissfully boil to death...

we will continue to monitor the developments in mexico and hope for a miracle to happen... we just won't hold our breath while we do so...

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who has the bigger problem? you are kidding, right?

while i am no big fan of the US- i do live here- and was planning to move to the lake area with my wife and kids for more than a year now... but we have put our plans on hold because it seems obvious enough from here that mexico currently has some much larger problems that have been getting exponentially worse and will surely continue to get worse for the foreseeable future...

your question about who's got the bigger problems got me thinking... just off the top of my head:

i havent locked the door to my house or my car door for at least 15 years living in and around a fairly major city here in the US... that is because we feel very safe doing so... might not be very smart-- but crime doesnt even cross our radar-- we don't have bars on the windows or have to worry about our bank machines being compromised, or need, as i once read here, a live in security guard to protect us---

murders are a rarity in this area...

petty crime that is fairly common there in mexico- is also relatively rare here...

the US is not living in the middle of a barbaric drug war...

the US has over 310 million people... mexico's population is around 112 million...

the US has 80 people per sq mile... mexico has 142 people per sq mile...

the US seems to still have some semblance of rule of law... when police are called, they typically respond in haste...

the US does not see captured criminals broken out of jail or released by police, prison officials or other cartel cronies...

US mayors, sheriffs and police are not being kidnapped and/or dismembered on a seemingly weekly basis...

US officials lives are not being publicly threatened by drug cartels who demand they work with them or die...

US does not suffer from beheadings and body dismemberment with notes attached to murdered bodies that are sometimes spread in front of schools or hung from bridges...

US does not suffer from highway roadblocks designed to plunder, murder, or terrorize...

US spends about 9.7% of disposable income on food--- mexico spends about 22%... with corn prices rising 52% and wheat prices rising 47%, mexicans will spend an average of 50% of income on food... this does not bode well for an already impoverished and hungry nation...

mexico's government gets 40% of its income from oil... domestic consumption will force its exports to drop to zero within a few years... this adds even more pressure on mexico government's ability to fund security forces or feed its hungry or fund medical care... this is also bad for the US- especially border states- and since the US imports a lot of oil from mexico, this spells disaster for the US economy...

considering these things--- i would say that mexico has a lot more problems than the US...

murder is alive and well here in the US... but i guess that all depends on where you live... it has never been an interest of mine to live in unsafe areas... or to monitor whether or not i am making myself a target for crime...

all that being said--- it breaks my heart that our dream of moving to mexico seems to be slowly slipping away because of the lawlessness and encroaching insanity into even more areas of that country... which will most likely be affecting more and more expats as the days and months go on...

i know a lot of you are sticking there and can provide good arguments as to why you are-- i just pray that you stay safe and realize the real potential that the 'unwritten rule' that expats have nothing to fear, will probably be broken as the days go by...

reminds me of the boiling frog analogy:

throw a frog into a boiling pot of water and it will jump out immediately...

put the frog into a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat- and it will lay there and blissfully boil to death...

we will continue to monitor the developments in mexico and hope for a miracle to happen... we just won't hold our breath while we do so...

finally, a realistic point of view. thank you. Many NOB'ers now living in Mexico are trapped, in that they can no longer afford to move back to the US under conditions that they can afford and still have an acceptable lifestyle. So they can only justify their situation by pretending to ignore what is happening,downplay the problems and go whistling past the graveyard.

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finally, a realistic point of view. thank you. Many NOB'ers now living in Mexico are trapped, in that they can no longer afford to move back to the US under conditions that they can afford and still have an acceptable lifestyle. So they can only justify their situation by pretending to ignore what is happening,downplay the problems and go whistling past the graveyard.

What's "realistic" is that in the 4 years that 43,000 have died in Mexico's "Drug War," over 150,000 have died of gun violence in the US, a place with no war. You sir have no basis for your coumments that Expats are "trapped." You don't live here and never will. Please don't attempt to speak about or for the Expats in Mexico.

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What's "realistic" is that in the 4 years that 43,000 have died in Mexico's "Drug War," over 150,000 have died of gun violence in the US, a place with no war. You sir have no basis for your coumments that Expats are "trapped." You don't live here and never will. Please don't attempt to speak about or for the Expats in Mexico.

I think that many of us who live here feel we can't leave for a variety of reasons: cost of living in the US, all of our financial security tied up in homes we own, pets we can't take with us, illnesses that get worse in the cold weather and so on. I have been talking to many friends about their plans if narcoterrorism becomes too much for them here at lakeside, and those who feel they can't leave for whatever reason do feel trapped. They stare into space as they try to imagine where they could relocate. I feel the same way when I contemplate leaving. We would leave behind a house that I am not sure we can sell and parrots that can't be moved north. Even taking all of our dogs would be difficult with our Plan B. So my sense is that there is a definite percentage of ex-pats who feel trapped here right now.

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I think that many of us who live here feel we can't leave for a variety of reasons: cost of living in the US, all of our financial security tied up in homes we own, pets we can't take with us, illnesses that get worse in the cold weather and so on. I have been talking to many friends about their plans if narcoterrorism becomes too much for them here at lakeside, and those who feel they can't leave for whatever reason do feel trapped. They stare into space as they try to imagine where they could relocate. I feel the same way when I contemplate leaving. We would leave behind a house that I am not sure we can sell and parrots that can't be moved north. Even taking all of our dogs would be difficult with our Plan B. So my sense is that there is a definite percentage of ex-pats who feel trapped here right now.

The love affair many of us have with Mexico (great weather Lakeside; small town feel; good cost of living; friends from many countries; tons of activity options - to name just a few) is being eroded by concern for safety. Some react by selling their homes and racing back to wherever; one recently went to Phoenix, only to discover her home there had been robbed; others by simply hoping things will improve. The latter group are either not so reactionary or have few options due to limited income. Most of us are continuing to enjoy the many benefits of living here and are quietly and cautiously waiting to see how things unfold. We are taking precautions, we had heretofore felt unnecessary. We are considering a Plan B. What a shame. Hopefully this violence will subside as the unintended consequences of ex-pats leaving will be a very negative impact on the local Mexican population who are dependent on locals and tourists.

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Trapped? That is a state of mind. The road runs north as well as south, and it's a matter of how much value is placed on a feeling of "safety" balanced against what would be lost if one leaves the country. Sure, it would cause me a heavy financial loss to just "walk away"......but to consider the past.......my art history professor left Germany with his family before the Gestapo knocked on his door. They lived to tell the tale, though they lost their considerable wealth. Timing is all. Mexico may actually be a safer place than the U.S., considering the volatile political climate in the states.

IMO, we need to regain our sense of proportion. To paraphrase the old comedian: "I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is better". However, I can leave my stuff behind if I have to. I ain't no dumb frog, and the water isn't hot enough yet.

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What's "realistic" is that in the 4 years that 43,000 have died in Mexico's "Drug War," over 150,000 have died of gun violence in the US, a place with no war. You sir have no basis for your coumments that Expats are "trapped." You don't live here and never will. Please don't attempt to speak about or for the Expats in Mexico.

i really do not mean to cause any trouble...

but i am curios as to why two replies correcting the stats put forward by Atlas were deleted?

150,000 people have not died of gun violence in the US over the last 4 years... that is just factually inaccurate...

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According to one Wikipedia consensus of reports: 15.22 deaths by gunshot for every 100,000 people in the U.S. in 2004 alone. That's 15 per million. At 300 million pop. That's 45,000 that year, which equates to 180,000 in four years. More than what you're claiming is not true.

Deaths in Mexico since Calderone took control in Dec. 2006 (that's four years): 32,000, they say. That's 8,000 on a yearly average, which is less than 1/5 the U.S. And that's in a nation with 1/3 the population. So isn't that like 1/15th the number of gun-related deaths?

I take heart in knowing that in Mexico, this violence is attributed directly to the attempted eradication of drug cartels, while in the U.S. it's pretty frikkin' random. So when it's over here, it will be over. But back home? Never.

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According to one Wikipedia consensus of reports: 15.22 deaths by gunshot for every 100,000 people in the U.S. in 2004 alone. That's 15 per million. At 300 million pop. That's 45,000 that year, which equates to 180,000 in four years. More than what you're claiming is not true.

Deaths in Mexico since Calderone took control in Dec. 2006 (that's four years): 32,000, they say. That's 8,000 on a yearly average, which is less than 1/5 the U.S. And that's in a nation with 1/3 the population. So isn't that like 1/15th the number of gun-related deaths?

I take heart in knowing that in Mexico, this violence is attributed directly to the attempted eradication of drug cartels, while in the U.S. it's pretty frikkin' random. So when it's over here, it will be over. But back home? Never.

the numbers at the wikipedia link you provide are quite misleading as they reference a study from the 1990's AND they include gun death by suicides... the kaiser report also referenced there indicates that the rate was more like 10.2 per 100,000-- referencing the year 2007... but these numbers are also misleading--- in that year the vast majority of gun related deaths in the US were suicides at 34598... actual murder stats are much lower than suicide stats...

the following numbers show the year-- and how many total murders , NOT suicides, happened in that year in the US... these numbers are from the FBI...

2000 15,586

2001 16,037

2002 16,229

2003 16,528

2004 16,148

2005 16,740

2006 17,030

2007 16,929

2008 16,442

2009 15,241

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Trapped? That is a state of mind. The road runs north as well as south, and it's a matter of how much value is placed on a feeling of "safety" balanced against what would be lost if one leaves the country. Sure, it would cause me a heavy financial loss to just "walk away"......but to consider the past.......my art history professor left Germany with his family before the Gestapo knocked on his door. They lived to tell the tale, though they lost their considerable wealth. Timing is all. Mexico may actually be a safer place than the U.S., considering the volatile political climate in the states.

IMO, we need to regain our sense of proportion. To paraphrase the old comedian: "I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is better". However, I can leave my stuff behind if I have to. I ain't no dumb frog, and the water isn't hot enough yet.

I guess if someones only home is here at Lakeside and they can't sell it and they don't have the resource to buy another NOB

they would be trapped.

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