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JayBearII

Am I mad as hell and not going to take it any more?

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I have the growing feeling that I should be doing something besides hiding under the bedclothes. Scenes in local restaurants, postings online, indicate to me that most people are ignoring the escalation of conflict. I am already careful to avoid going out at night, avoid troubled areas, try to be aware at all times, etc. Same things I did when I lived on Beacon Hill in Boston in the early 1980's, but the situation here seems more like impending war. Do others feel like this? I came of age in the 60's when discord was rampant and when I thought it was important to take a stand for what you believed in. I ask myself what I can do. Get together a convoy of gringos and liberate Morelia on behalf of tourists everywhere? Make large flags and hold demonstrations? Hide refugees? Just joking BUT...I have a growing urge to DO SOMETHING (other than flee the country while I can). Got any ideas?

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I have the growing feeling that I should be doing something besides hiding under the bedclothes. Scenes in local restaurants, postings online, indicate to me that most people are ignoring the escalation of conflict. I am already careful to avoid going out at night, avoid troubled areas, try to be aware at all times, etc. Same things I did when I lived on Beacon Hill in Boston in the early 1980's, but the situation here seems more like impending war. Do others feel like this? I came of age in the 60's when discord was rampant and when I Interesting question - and my response is - what are the root problems that need to be fixed. Legalizing drugs in either country would have some effect - but what happens then? You are taking away income from people who don't have many options. That is - if they aren't growing, selling, distributing, drugs - what do they do now to support themselves thought it was important to take a stand for what you believed in. I ask myself what I can do. Get together a convoy of gringos and liberate Morelia on behalf of tourists everywhere? Make large flags and hold demonstrations? Hide refugees? Just joking BUT...I have a growing urge to DO SOMETHING (other than flee the country while I can). Got any ideas?

Many people think that legalizing drugs will solve the problem - but what happens if/when drugs are legalized. You would have a major work force out of work - with no way to support themselves and their familes.

I would think that unless you fix the root causes of the problem, it won't be fixed. Getting involved in the narco business, be it growing crops, making drugs, or distributing them is the only way some people can make a decent living.

here is the salary information for maquilas in Ciudad Juarez -

By December 2009, the last month registered, average wage in maquiladora industry in Ciudad Juarez was MXP$6,992

It is a multifaceted problem - but it seems to me that one thing that will need to be fixed is job creation - meaningful jobs that pay a reasonable wage - be it small businesses or small factories. And for that program to be sucessful, you will also need to focus on education.

So in humble opinion, if you want to help - you could do so by helping create meaningful jobs that pay a reasonable wage - or create skill training programs. This would be a bottom up approach - and let the feds take the top down approach. I also don't have any grand ideas on what jobs would work - but it seems to me there is enough talent at lakeside that people should be able to come up with some grand ideas - but I doubt that there would be much interest. I wish I was wrong.

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Guest Grizzy

Interesting topic. I wish I had a viable solution. I lean towards legalization given the historical lesson of prohibition but the underlying poverty and opportunity or lack of are the issues that need to be addressed. I look forward to reading others' opinions on this.

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This report from Stratford Security outlines just how to stop what is happening.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20101215-mexico-and-cartel-wars-2010?utm_source=SWeekly&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=101216&utm_content=readmore&elq=e8bcf85ca2b6495b9cd342c60e244942

I'd say basically another country needs to butt out, Mexico could go back to the way it was before Calderone and let things carry on as they used to.

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Interesting topic. I wish I had a viable solution. I lean towards legalization given the historical lesson of prohibition but the underlying poverty and opportunity or lack of are the issues that need to be addressed. I look forward to reading others' opinions on this.

There are two ways to end the problem: complete legalization or complete prohibition with Draconian enforcement. Neither is acceptable to the body politic. Therefore nothing will change fundamentally. If the new president coming in 2012 eases off on the violence,the previous situation will be restored,i.e.,illegal drugs readily available with less violence. Gangs will continue to war with each other,but who cares about them?

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NO.

I have the growing feeling that I should be doing something besides hiding under the bedclothes. Do others feel like this?

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Does anyone really think if the drug problem goes away the violence will stop? The thugs will simply find another way to make the money they are used to making - robberies, kidnappings, prostitution or more protection racket activity, etc. No one who is used to having an enormous amount of cash will want to work for $4.00 an hour...anywhere in the world.IMO.

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Does anyone really think if the drug problem goes away the violence will stop? The thugs will simply find another way to make the money they are used to making - robberies, kidnappings, prostitution or more protection racket activity, etc. No one who is used to having an enormous amount of cash will want to work for $4.00 an hour...anywhere in the world.IMO.

I think you got that right...

Adding fuel to the fire: Mexican Attorney General Arturo Chavez said yesterday (Thurs) that 30,196 people have been killed in drug-related violence nationwide since President Felipe Calderon took office four years ago. That's the official count.

Deaths between January to November 2010 were 12,456, the highest since Calderon took office.

Calderon’s war (if it can be called that) against drug traffickers has gotten praise from U.S. officials, while infighting within crime groups and between drug cartels has escalated. If they would only hurry up the process of killing each other off...

Interesting, the feud between the Sinaloa cartel and Juarez Cartel has made Juarez the deadliest large city in Mexico with more than 3,000 murders in 2010.

Unless you are a Mexican national, you can't get politically involved in any way. I wonder, though, if a rash of letters from expats to Calderon bringing into focus perhaps a withdrawal of expat and tourist dollars (in a myriad of ways) that help keep the Mexican economy moving might get his attention. Money does talk as you know. Especially down here.

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Blaming Calderon is lame... The war between the cartels was so badly out of control the government had no choice. Removing the Feds from the war just leaves citizens less protection and the Zetas will still go after La Familia, the west coast war will continue and the gulf cartel will still be at war with those same Zetas, etc.

The only way to stop violent criminals from running amok is legalizing the prohibition... the US couldn't stop Prohibition mobsters until they first took the profit out of alcohol. It turns out the mania and prohibition of recreational drugs comes from roughly the same time period and has worked about as well... Coke and Pepsi were methods of dispensing cocaine, opium was commonly smoked etc and then made illegal but not stopped. If the US doesn't legalize recreational use of drugs the gangs here and there will just get richer, more powerful and bolder. If the US can't keep drugs out of the most heavily guarded places in the country, it's prisons than how can it expect to keep illegal drugs out of a free society where obviously people want to use them?

I doubt anything Mexico can do will have an effect on the cartels as long as they are bringing in tens of billions of dollars a year in profits. They have corrupted every area of government in Mexico, most of the US side of the border area, US customs and are moving across the country with millions of dollars to pave their path. Follow the money, it the US doesn't legalize drugs the only other solution would be Sharia law and beheading users and dealers until everyone lived in fear of being accused by the drug police and killed innocent or not. By far the most viable solution is legalization.

Condoning this violent way of life for jobs just seems deeply immoral to me.... they admit to 30 some thousand deaths but we all know none of those from around here have been counted, people who I think have some inside info tell me the number is likely TEN times what they are admitting to. Supplying farmers a minimal wage growing drugs just doesn't seem worth that cost to me.

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On TV Fox Greta show this evening the subject of Mexico Narco came up..a reporter from the Washington Post has been following how guns get into the hands of the Narco's...it seems that 60,000 Guns/Rifles have been traced back to dealers in Texas,AZ and California!!!..I guess the bad guys do not follow the rules like us normal guys

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Very interesting.....

I think a posible solution would be to make legal, de import and export of drugs... and charge a big bunch of taxes for that... then the cartels will be legal, and the problem will only jump to some other countries... those that actually consum the drugs

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TobyJug asked the question, "what can we do?" All the posts so far are about what "they" should do, e.g. legalize drugs, etc.. Hmmm. I don't think there's anything "we" can or should do. It's not our fight and not our country. Taking any kind of political action, including marching, or signing petitions, is grounds for deportation. What's going on is a turf war between the cartels and between them and the Army. I fully intend to stay out of the way.

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I have the growing feeling that I should be doing something besides hiding under the bedclothes. Scenes in local restaurants, postings online, indicate to me that most people are ignoring the escalation of conflict. I am already careful to avoid going out at night, avoid troubled areas, try to be aware at all times, etc. Same things I did when I lived on Beacon Hill in Boston in the early 1980's, but the situation here seems more like impending war. Do others feel like this? I came of age in the 60's when discord was rampant and when I thought it was important to take a stand for what you believed in. I ask myself what I can do. Get together a convoy of gringos and liberate Morelia on behalf of tourists everywhere? Make large flags and hold demonstrations? Hide refugees? Just joking BUT...I have a growing urge to DO SOMETHING (other than flee the country while I can). Got any ideas?

If you want to DO SOMETHING here in Mexico, go through the process of becoming a Mexican citizen and then take part in the political discussions and actions. Otherwise, you risk serious problems including deportation. Putting pressure on US officials to legalize there probably makes more sense since the US is the destination for most of the drugs, the source of the money made from selling them, and also the source of most of the guns used by narcos in Mexico to kill Mexicans. To quote the old comic strip character Pogo, "I have met the enemy, and he is us."

I, too, have qualms about the possible results of suddenly disemploying thousands of young men, armed to the teeth and inured to violence, without any practical way of re-employing them in legal jobs at a decent wage. However, the folks who legalized alcohol in the US did it in the teeth of the Depression, and there were similar numbers of young men involved in the illegal alcohol trade at the time. So maybe the transition won't be that hard after all. But continuing a misguided and disastrous policy because of speculation about possible negative consequences that may (or may not) occur is not a wise option. Prohibition has utterly failed, as it failed 80 years ago for alcohol. One definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing, over and over again, with the same result while expecting that this time it will be different.

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TobyJug asked the question, "what can we do?" All the posts so far are about what "they" should do, e.g. legalize drugs, etc.. Hmmm. I don't think there's anything "we" can or should do. It's not our fight and not our country. Taking any kind of political action, including marching, or signing petitions, is grounds for deportation. What's going on is a turf war between the cartels and between them and the Army. I fully intend to stay out of the way.

It was the other poster not I who asked "what can we do", for me I would recommend you say no to drugs.. unless I was looking for excitement, I stayed away from the down town areas when visiting any U.S major city

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On TV Fox Greta show this evening the subject of Mexico Narco came up..a reporter from the Washington Post has been following how guns get into the hands of the Narco's...it seems that 60,000 Guns/Rifles have been traced back to dealers in Texas,AZ and California!!!..I guess the bad guys do not follow the rules like us normal guys

The NY Times reported that over the past 4 years, the feds have tracked more than 60,000 guns going across the border from American dealers. There's a loophole that panders to the gun lobby (NRA) and Congress is doing nothing to close it. Apparently gun dealers have the freedom to make multiple sales of AK-47s and other battlefield assault rifles without having to report sales to the feds. Imagine that! They have to report the sale of handguns, however.

How did it happen? According to the report, the gun lobby "convinced" Congress awhile back that "'long guns' like military rifles and shotguns were not favored by criminals." Hellooooo, reality check.

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Many people think that legalizing drugs will solve the problem - but what happens if/when drugs are legalized. You would have a major work force out of work - with no way to support themselves and their familes.

I would think that unless you fix the root causes of the problem, it won't be fixed. Getting involved in the narco business, be it growing crops, making drugs, or distributing them is the only way some people can make a decent living.

here is the salary information for maquilas in Ciudad Juarez -

By December 2009, the last month registered, average wage in maquiladora industry in Ciudad Juarez was MXP$6,992

It is a multifaceted problem - but it seems to me that one thing that will need to be fixed is job creation - meaningful jobs that pay a reasonable wage - be it small businesses or small factories. And for that program to be sucessful, you will also need to focus on education.

So in humble opinion, if you want to help - you could do so by helping create meaningful jobs that pay a reasonable wage - or create skill training programs. This would be a bottom up approach - and let the feds take the top down approach. I also don't have any grand ideas on what jobs would work - but it seems to me there is enough talent at lakeside that people should be able to come up with some grand ideas - but I doubt that there would be much interest. I wish I was wrong.

Many people think that legalizing drugs will solve the problem - but what happens if/when drugs are legalized. You would have a major work force out of work - with no way to support themselves and their familes.

I doubt that narcos out of the drug business will look for jobs. So, they'll find other nasty ways to make big bucks-like kidnapping, extortion, etc.

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It was the other poster not I who asked "what can we do", for me I would recommend you say no to drugs.. unless I was looking for excitement, I stayed away from the down town areas when visiting any U.S major city

Here's the link to the New York Time article you mentioned:

where the guns come from

As others has said, any solution has to start with the demand side (the U.S.) and the realization that as long as narco-trafficking is Mexico's most successful form of entrepreneurship it will continue to grow.

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Borderland Beat has just published an excellent article on the violence in Mexico

For those of you that don't want to take the time to read it - and it is probably a 5 minute read - the article suggests that the following steps MUST be taken before Nacro violence can come to an end -

Edgardo Buscaglia, the expert on drug-related crime, and his team studied 17 countries that have successfully fought organized crime. He says that all of them took the same four important steps.

First, says Buscaglia, comes a reform of the judicial system. Second, laws are needed to fight corruption in politics, because 70 percent of all election campaigns in the country are partially financed with drug money.

Third, Mexico must investigate the flow of funds from the drug trade into the economy. According to Buscaglia, 78 percent of the Mexican economy has ties to the drug cartels.

Finally, social programs are needed for young people, as the Colombian city of Medellín has demonstrated. Such programs are meant to turn young people's attention away from a life working for the cartels -- a life that can end quickly

Here is the link to the complete article - very definitely a worthwhile read - http://www.borderlan...o-violence.html

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The US does not want the drug war to end - no matter what country it's originating from. The drug trade supports all of the US's black ops operations. None of the money gets run thru the normal budget channels. If it did, the US wouldn't have a budget deficit.

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oh, now that’s interesting.

please elaborate and feel free to

use the old journalistic panacea of

who, what, where, when, how & why...

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oh, now that’s interesting.

please elaborate and feel free to

use the old journalistic panacea of

who, what, where, when, how & why...

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oh, now that’s interesting.

please elaborate and feel free to

use the old journalistic panacea of

who, what, where, when, how & why...

yes, it is interesting when you start doing some digging. who do you think funds the US and the UK's MI6 black ops? do you ever see "black ops" budget listed anywhere? well, let's see - no, because black ops don't really exist even tho we know they exist. as long as there's turmoil, there's a need for a lot of things - military, for instance, and they in turn have the second biggest needs, the first biggest being black ops. and speaking of military, what if there were no border war, what would all those people working on it do for a job? it's unfortunate, but war is money. think about it for a moment. if suddenly there there were peace in the middle east and all of our soldiers were brought home, what would they do? what would all those pilots fly? there's no jobs in the airline industry. what would all the mechanics do? no jobs here for them. there just wouldn't be enough work for all of them, and the unemployment rate would be 100 times worse than it is now. there would be no need for companies to build fighter jets and other war equipment and all the little bits and bobs that go with it, so those companies would have to reduce their workforce as well, further adding to unemployment. without war we would need less government, so more unemployment (that part would be really good). do i favor war? of course not. i don't know what the answer is but i do believe the public is having the proverbial wool pulled over their eyes and as a nation of sheeple, what can we do about it anyway. i'm sure you and i could have some terrific conversations/debates about this and when i move to lakeside i'd love to do that. also, think about this - if we can fire a missile that can hit a target within a 3 foot square, why can't we control our borders? if a satellite can read a newspaper from space, why can't we use that satellite to help control our borders? why did we waste 1 billion+ (and the time) on a fence that got nowhere because it was decided it wouldn't work? why are we not providing the equipment and manpower to control our (own) borders? personally, i'm ready to move to lakeside and enjoy life and not worry about the rest of the world since i can't do anything about what's going on anyway. my only concern is that there seems to be some "cracks" appearing more often in the serenity of the area with regard to crime. nonetheless, at this point i'm still willing to "pay my money and take my chances". here's an interesting post from 2009 on afghanistan that has to do with the drug trade and there are hundreds of similar articles if you want to research them.

In Afghanistan US/NATO put blame on Taliban for the poppy cultivation in Afghanistan for financing their resistance to allied forces. Ironically, it was only in Taliban era when the world had seen a sharp decline in opium crop in Afghanistan.

Taliban banned opium cultivation nationwide. A more important question is how and when this business of drug production and trafficking started in region?

CIA has been using drug money since long to generate money to support its operations all over the world. It did not start in Afghanistan it was brought here after experimenting somewhere else. This is something which is not a lead story in international media for obvious reasons despite the fact it is harming millions of lives around the globe.

1. CIA’s secret Operations

Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) on of the most active and dynamic intelligence setups in the world needs massive amount of money to carry on its clandestine operations all over the world. It has happened when CIA used local sources to conduct a coups, assassinations, regime change, etc. As US has a long history to support democracy by hook and crook measures, until and unless a dictator is ready to serve US interests to prolong its rule.

Operations like the one completed in Iran in 1953 to remove Prime Minister Mussadaq and backing Shah’s regime by using assets in civil society, or in Iraq in 1975 to arm Iraqi Kurds to destabilize Pre-Saddam in Iraq or more recently using its assets in Pakistan to pave the way of direct US intervention in Pakistan under pretext of hunting Al-Qaeda.

These kinds of operations need a lot of financial input. Usually CIA arranges revenue from its own means for this kind of operations where expenses can’t be predicted by any measure. Funds from Whitehouse always need a complete audit and detailed reports about usage of these funds. There are numerous occasions when CIA never shared details of operations with its own analytical wing nor with any other public office in Washington. Most of the time it is drug money that compensates these expenses.

CIA operations are not only single expenditure fulfilled by drugs there are also other deficiencies which are compensated with this money like financial institutes and banks in current financial crisis. UNODC Executive Director Antonio Maria Costa based in Vienna revealed that drug money often became the only available capital when the crisis spiraled out of control last year.

The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime had found evidence that "inter bank loans were funded by money that originated from drug trade and other illegal activities," Costa was quoted as saying. There were "signs that some banks were rescued in that way."

It is not only CIA anymore in trade for using it as gold mine to finance its illegal operations all over the world but US economy also need some liquidity in its banks, it doesn’t matter if it is coming by drug trade.

2. Drug Production & Consumption

Afghanistan is the largest producer of heroin’s main ingredient; opium and opium is nothing new in this part of the world. In Afghanistan and FATA, Pakistan it is being produced since centuries; used as remedy for various diseases. Commercial production of opium began just during the Russian invasion in Afghanistan where it is estimated to produce some 8250 metric tons (Source: AmericanFreePress.net, November 24, 2008) of opium per year which makes 85% to 90% of the world's supply of opium. This also contributes towards Afghan warlords’ wealth directly. This is what CIA brought to the region: Opium production without a brand name obviously. Today’s world opium production map is as under;

http://i39.tinypic.com/2i6fbtg.jpg

Above: Demand and trafficking of drugs globally. US is one of very high concentration drug trafficking territory thanks to Regan’s National Security Council who turned a blind eye towards South American cocaine socking into US in 1980 when CIA was backing all the drug traffickers of Contra movements in Nicaragua.

Markets for these drugs stretched world over from Western Europe to Far East, From Canada to Latin America and From China to Morocco, Africa. Profits related to this business also vary along with market’s location.

This business enriches not only the United States-friendly Afghan warlords but also elements of the Northern Alliance, the US key ally in the country. More disturbing is fact that this money also contributes in CIA’s operations against Pakistan as well.

3. Contra Movements (1980)

In Asia demand for heroin is more than any other drug but it is not the case world over. Cocaine is favorite drug which is consumed the most. Cocaine was nothing new in South American countries but it was only during Nicaraguan contra movements against the then dictator it got shoot up. It was again CIA’s regime change operation to bring "democracy" in Nicaragua. It was during this period when the whole region saw an unprecedented surge in cocaine trafficking in 1980. This has been investigated none other than but by CIA’s inspector general in later years.

Was CIA a part of this?

Answer is not only CIA was aiding these cocaine traffickers and money-launderers but Ronald Reagon’s National Security Council also turned a blind eye towards these drug trades despite the fact that later these very drug traffickers brought cocaine to mainland US. According to CIA’s inspector general report, published in online magazine The Consortium magazine, Oct. 15, 1998, it was Reagan’s National Security Council which cleared proven drug traffickers and CIA inspector general Frederick Hitz confirmed long standing.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2py9bpe.jpg

Above: Armed men of Nicaragua insurgency during 1980, armed with CIA’s sport and financed by drug money.

Allegations of cocaine traffickers.

The NSC’s covert airline was the main transportation mean to do this trade in safest possible way.

Most stunning part of all this contra movements and CIA involvement is methods these movements used to dismantle the then Nicaraguan government including bombing and killing of civilians and CIA withheld all evidence of contra crimes from Justice Department, the Congress and even its own analytical division just to conceal its connection with drug traffickers.

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