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Should the US and Canada send troops to Mexico?

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The cost of medical treatment, cost of educating their children, and a list of public services that are stressed due to their being in the community.

I have yet to see any information that says they actually pay their way.

If they're employed their employer is withholding taxes, SS, etc. You should know this. If they're renting their landlord is paying property taxes. What more do you want? What more should they pay? It's widely reported that illegals do not go to hospitals or try to get food stamps or any kind of welfare because of fear of being found out.

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I'm aware of withholding, but someone claiming 4 dependents, and earning minimum wage pays zero taxes, just FICA, and at roughly 7-8%, I don't see that offsetting the cost of medical assistance, let alone education for children, etc....

Anyhow, in most areas, people are paying illegals "under the table," so there's zero coming out even for FICA.

I need something solid that really shows me that they're paying their way. The rental payment doesn't really matter either. All they've done is drive the price of low-priced housing up, because people renting to them will get more from their property by renting it to a bunch of illegals than they do to someone who is a legitimate renter.

Anyhow, that's what I see. If you can show me where they really pay their own way, please do so. I'd appreciate seeing hard facts that support that position.

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Atlas, I think we've got a troll. With a now more thinly-disguised rant.

Just seems to care a little too much and a little too passionately.

I agree. His argument is the standard "the reason everything is stressed is because of the migrants and illegals." Where I come from (a west coast state) legal and illegal migrants and immigrants work in vineyards, orchards, farms, nurseries, landscape maintenance, hotels, restuarants and contruction. Few of them have 4 kids or earn minimum wage. The State and several state, county, and local agencies and the unions keep an eye on things. That doesn't mean that there are not illegals, there are. But it does mean that the immigrants and migrants are paid and treated fairly.

Property taxes fund schools. The owner of a dwelling; home, duplex, or apt. building pays the property taxes that fund the schools. I know of no hospital that is in financial trouble because of treating people w/o health insurance. Union workers have health insurance. Illegals don't go to hospitals for fear of being found out. Did you miss that?

If you want to believe that immigrants are the cause of problems in your area that's your choice, but your believe is founded in predjudice and speculation, not fact.

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Yep, agree. My experience in the bay area has been the same as yours. Most of them get their health care in little clinics and free-clinics that cater to their needs.

Loved the part about background checks etc, wonder what kind of jobs this guy is talking about! People living in a country illegally don't normally go to Human Resource Departments in pursuit of a job! More like the parking lot at Home Depot. Nor would they apply for a job that required background checks etc. gimme a break They might be in the country illegally, but they ain't stupid! Or they wouldn't have made it that far.

Ya, basta!

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Let's see if I have this right. A troll is someone who disagrees with the two of you, or asks for something that verifies what you say is fact.

Now, as to the "jobs" my wife hired people for, it included gardeners, domestic help, phone attendants for credit card companies that were bi-lingual, and people to handle assistance for the handicapped, and once again, bi-lingual.

The company she worked for is a Fortune 500 member, and if you take the time now to see what many companies in the US are doing, they've even added credit checks for people doing menial tasks, and common labor. The reason is obvious. It's a question of security, since even a pool cleaner should be bonded, and insured.

As for experience in HR, my wife had over 40 years experience, and I had over 30 years, so I'd put our credentials on the line any day.

As for the insults, leave them at the door. They don't win arguments. They also don't intimidate me. Thanks!

Once again, I don't see where you've shown that illegal aliens pay their own way in the US. The people of California certainly don't think so, do they?

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Let's see if I have this right. A troll is someone who disagrees with the two of you, or asks for something that verifies what you say is fact.

Now, as to the "jobs" my wife hired people for, it included gardeners, domestic help, phone attendants for credit card companies that were bi-lingual, and people to handle assistance for the handicapped, and once again, bi-lingual.

The company she worked for is a Fortune 500 member, and if you take the time now to see what many companies in the US are doing, they've even added credit checks for people doing menial tasks, and common labor. The reason is obvious. It's a question of security, since even a pool cleaner should be bonded, and insured.

As for experience in HR, my wife had over 40 years experience, and I had over 30 years, so I'd put our credentials on the line any day.

As for the insults, leave them at the door. They don't win arguments. They also don't intimidate me. Thanks!

Once again, I don't see where you've shown that illegal aliens pay their own way in the US. The people of California certainly don't think so, do they?

A "Troll" is someone who goes to a webboard to simply stir the pot. BTW, I have not questioned your creds in HR. However, I think the ball is still in your court. We don't have to prove anything to you. Our case has been stated: if they're employed they're paying taxes, if they're renting the landlord pays the property tax. You have not supported your assertions with anything other than your opinion. BTW, "trainrunner" is from the Bay Area (read San Francisco) in California, he doesn't seem to agree with you. Do I recall correctly that you are not in or from California?

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Rest assured, I didn't come to this board to stir up trouble. I did come here for honest discussion with people that I will be calling my neighbors, in a little over a year.

As for my being a troll, let me say that's not a very good argument for trying to get me to shut up, because I disagree with you.

I have information to support what I say about illegal immigration in the US.

Let's start with this little gem, from About, that sheds a little light on the cost factors in the state of California, just six-years ago. I dare say the figures are much higher now, and the people I know, from the real world, and on the internet, who work in the California educational system say it's a nightmare. By the way. The figures shown for 2004 are $10 billion dollars in cost. A lot of FICA to make up there, don't you think?

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

You might want to check these figures out as well. They talk about over $60 billion in costs now, and doubling it in less than 15 years. That's a lot of money if you ask me. Guess who pays it? We do. Every day, when it comes to what we pay out for services. Californians are dying under the weight of it. Over $1100 a year per native Californian paid to support illegals.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_localcosts

Here's a tidbit that shows hows the entire southern tier of states is being overrun by illegals, who are displacing legal residents on jobs. It also shows how the hospitals, and welfare systems are being overburdened. But read it. It tells the story.

http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html

I could go on and on with articles, and facts. It doesn't matter. The facts are the facts.

Now, would you please show me your facts to back up what you have said. Thanks.

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Rest assured, I didn't come to this board to stir up trouble. I did come here for honest discussion with people that I will be calling my neighbors, in a little over a year.

As for my being a troll, let me say that's not a very good argument for trying to get me to shut up, because I disagree with you.

I have information to support what I say about illegal immigration in the US.

Let's start with this little gem, from About, that sheds a little light on the cost factors in the state of California, just six-years ago. I dare say the figures are much higher now, and the people I know, from the real world, and on the internet, who work in the California educational system say it's a nightmare. By the way. The figures shown for 2004 are $10 billion dollars in cost. A lot of FICA to make up there, don't you think?

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

You might want to check these figures out as well. They talk about over $60 billion in costs now, and doubling it in less than 15 years. That's a lot of money if you ask me. Guess who pays it? We do. Every day, when it comes to what we pay out for services. Californians are dying under the weight of it. Over $1100 a year per native Californian paid to support illegals.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_localcosts

Here's a tidbit that shows hows the entire southern tier of states is being overrun by illegals, who are displacing legal residents on jobs. It also shows how the hospitals, and welfare systems are being overburdened. But read it. It tells the story.

http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html

I could go on and on with articles, and facts. It doesn't matter. The facts are the facts.

Now, would you please show me your facts to back up what you have said. Thanks.

Article yes, facts no. First piece from 2004, the other two undated. All three from anti-immigrant organizations. You'll have to do better to convince me. I guess you just want to believe all of this. Simply stated, I don't. You've heard from two people from the west coast, neither of whom agree with your assertions about California. BTW, you didn't answer my previous question; are you a west coast resident? I believe that you have no first-hand knowledge of conditions there.

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