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What causes a restaurant here to fail... or not?


slumdog

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Most of us know that restaurateurs are trying to make a living, but the fact is we have more places to eat than the local and expat population can support. That is why so many places open and close every year. Marley's Ghost

Starting a new thread, to avoid getting hopelessly lost in the Cafe Negra thread.

I'd agree with the other comments by Marley's Ghost in that thread, but not the one I quoted above. It's debatable whether there are too many restaurants to support, so I'll go to my main comment: so many restaurants open and close here every year because many (not all) of the owners don't have their act together. I can't count the number of places I've been to that were closed during posted open hours. When this happens more than once, I don't go back. Ami was like that for a long time; she seems to have pulled herself out of that hole. Of course, she's nuts to close on Sunday, which is typically the biggest day for restaurateurs here.

Someone long ago posted the rules for killing a restaurant, and this happens here all the time: hire a great cook/chef, train the staff, always have the food available. Then after a few weeks, fire the chef for a cheaper cook, get rid of some of the staff, stop the training, put kids in to serve who don't care. Make sure you "don't have that item today"... and wait a little more, and close the doors, wondering why no one is coming in. This scenario happens frequently at lakeside.

You can also decide that gringos will pay anything, and charge ridiculous prices for your food, while at the same time using free plastic chairs from the beer company, and neglect to wash your tablecloths (if you use any). )None of us really understand, do we, why the Casa del Waffles attracts so many Tapatios for their overpriced, average food, other than they think it's the cool thing to do: drop too much dinero at a U.S.-style joint.)

And you can avoid advertising, because that's just a needless expense, while you wonder why no one turned up for your grand opening. Unlike someone like Pedro's of GO, who constantly pushes the envelope and advertises the heck out of his place. That's not to say I found his Dim Sum worth writing about, but darn, it sure is cool to have something like that available here. I could go on.

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Interesting question. And what causes a restaurant to Gail on a community like lakeside might be different than in manhattan.

For example, I agree with your thoughts on prices. Price and value are aajot factor in my dining decisions. But in certain neighborhoods of NYC, it's irrelevant to the local consumers.

I would add a few other things that would contribute to the failure of a rrstaurant: inconsistency - sometimes it's great, sometimes it's awful, is not a good model for success (note I am NOT talking about an occasional dish that just doesn't hot the mark)

apathetic staff, let alone flat out lousy service is another turn off. I can easily accept that mistakes happen, new staff are hired and go thru a learning curve, etc - as long as they CARE about their jobs and their customers. Apathy just turns me off entirely. If you font care if I'm here and enjoying my visit, why should I return?

Regularly being out of menu items. Again, it happens sometimes. I can accept it with a new restaurant, or if show up close to closing hours, or if I'm dining after a very large group of people just left. But when this occurs on a restaurant that has been long established, during prime dining hours, without another reasonable explanation, it's often a bad omen.

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In the US, where there are statistics on the failure of small businesses, the number one reason businesses fail, especially restauants, is undercapitalization. A restaurant that opens on a shoestring (and many do), mistakenly thinks it will be full to capacity from Day One. After a few months of declining bank balances, they will trim wait staff; hire a cook/chef who will work for less; forego advertising; maintain less foods in their inventory; and buy cheaper ingredients that result in inconsistent and lesser quality meals.

Many, but not all, of the faults listed by the other posters, are a result of undercapitalization.

This happens here all the time: hire a great cook/chef, train the staff, always have the food available. Then after a few weeks, fire the chef for a cheaper cook, get rid of some of the staff, stop the training, put kids in to serve who don't care.
And you can avoid advertising, because that's just a needless expense
Inconsistency - sometimes it's great, sometimes it's awful.
Regularly being out of menu items.
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..and a few extras:

The restaurant business, like any other, needs to provide certain things: good product reliably available, good service, and they need to have a plan for getting through the lean times.

Too many of them don't have all of the above, and when times get tough, they often do what other failed businesses have done: cheapen the product, cut corners, fire the well paid experienced workers and hire cheaper help..........and the next thing you know........you have General Motors on the grand scale and ....local eatery on the low end. That is a simplistic comparison, but it works.

There are several local restaurants who are skating on thin ice right now. Easy to spot.

On the other hand, it's easy to spot the ones who will be in business as long as they want to be. Good example: Panino's and Tango's. There are others. Potential restaurant owners would be wise to sit around there; watch and learn.

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Aside from the obvious reasons such as bad food and worse service I think the the Ajijic mentality is part of the difficulty. Many here tend to be very "value conscious" to put it kindly. Witness the frequent debates on this board about which place serves the largest fillet at the lowest price. Also, in the states wine and liquor sales make a large contribution to restaurant profitability. Here that is difficult to accomplish because imported liquors and wines (except those from Chile and Argentina)are very expensive making alcoholic beverages disproportionately expensive to the cost of a meal and limiting both consumption and profitability. I also believe that many here do not tip well making it difficult to find well trained waters and servers. All of these factors give the established places an advantage over new entrants, useless as a previous poster mentioned they are well capitalized? Wouldn't it be great if the chef at Hole in One was well enough capitalized to able rent a place with with some ambiance and a proper kitchen such as Pedro's old place.

Also given the fact that so many of the restaurants geared toward the ex-pats in Ajijic with the exception of Tango, Number 4 and El Jardine de Nenette have such similar menus with uninteresting appetizers, going out to eat is less of an event than it might be in other places. Just some thoughts

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Great comments JRP!

While Erik is showing his skills, he still is learning! As a Chef, if you cannot cook a steak or an egg, game over. Hole in One is in a sweet spot right now. Erik will move on soon, SUPER LAKE will need to find new idea.

Fresh local food with a keen ability in the kitchen wins the day. Hole in One is at the top so far, it will change soon enough.

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Most Canadians and Americans here expect what they get at home for half the price. I think what they miss is what is truly Mexcican food. I did not come here for North American food, I want to experience the local cuisine. YES Jeanette, I like a Hotdog like anyone else, but this is not america.... this is Mexico. Things happen differently here.

60s in Paridise will serve a decent burger for ya (if you can wait for it) Have a chat with the lazy bones owner who does nothing but change the weekly special, OR you can try a decent dog at AMI Deli. All of these places are "wanna bes" simply trying to satisfy the GRINGO desires. Is so funny how americans love to travel to the other end of the world to find a good hamburger!!??? Stretch your culinary thoughts and think outside of your serviette.

There are some fabulous places that are native over the mountain in Guad that will razzle and dazzle your palette.

Ajijic is surviving on ExPats and trying to keep your interest. What do they know about food from US or Canada? They do it to make money and TRY to please you.... some (very few) do well. I just wish they could cook their food in their own style. BTW: much of what we eat in US and Canada is VERY similar to basic normal mexican food.

If you are looking for Al's Steak House or all Ya can eat BBQ, go back home. This is not the place to come to tantalize your palette for that carp O La. If you like fresh incrediences and have a "foodie" attitude" the local places are far better then the places trying to please you and are mostly missing the mark on the US Canadian European palette.

Eat Mexican!

ILIDS

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Most Canadians and Americans here expect what they get at home for half the price. I think what they miss is what is truly Mexcican food. I did not come here for North American food, I want to experience the local cuisine. YES Jeanette, I like a Hotdog like anyone else, but this is not america.... this is Mexico. Things happen differently here.

60s in Paridise will serve a decent burger for ya (if you can wait for it) Have a chat with the lazy bones owner who does nothing but change the weekly special, OR you can try a decent dog at AMI Deli. All of these places are "wanna bes" simply trying to satisfy the GRINGO desires. Is so funny how americans love to travel to the other end of the world to find a good hamburger!!??? Stretch your culinary thoughts and think outside of your serviette.

There are some fabulous places that are native over the mountain in Guad that will razzle and dazzle your palette.

Ajijic is surviving on ExPats and trying to keep your interest. What do they know about food from US or Canada? They do it to make money and TRY to please you.... some (very few) do well. I just wish they could cook their food in their own style. BTW: much of what we eat in US and Canada is VERY similar to basic normal mexican food.

If you are looking for Al's Steak House or all Ya can eat BBQ, go back home. This is not the place to come to tantalize your palette for that carp O La. If you like fresh incrediences and have a "foodie" attitude" the local places are far better then the places trying to please you and are mostly missing the mark on the US Canadian European palette.

Eat Mexican!

ILIDS

Well said. I want to eat where you want to eat. Unfortunately my wife isn't quite so adventuresome when it comes to eating, so we go to the Tangos of the world. But I had a great Carne en su Jugo today at Doña Lola today. Now that's my kind of eating.

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A few good points there......but to suggest driving to Guadalajara for regular dining out doesn't appeal to this expat.

I like Mexican food.....but not as an everyday dining out experience. My palate is hopelessly NOB with regard to spicy food. Can't help that, and since most really tasty Mexican dishes rely heavily on spicy seasonings.....it sure limits things.

My husband and I are good tippers, and we don't expect to be served fantastic food at ridiculous prices. The ones who go broke around here aren't the ones with bargain prices: they're the ones who charge way more than the meal is worth. Recipe for failure: Overpriced meals, pre-prepared and heated up for the order (saw the kitchen and the prepping in one case) Wine marked up 4 times over retail; snail like service. Snotty attitude.

Re the wine matter: Wine is good stuff; however, a sensible senior isn't going to be ordering more than one or two glasses with dinner in most cases. The restaurant owner should have figured that one out before opening, and planned accordingly. Granted, we have some serious lushes on board in this area, but that's another matter, isn't it? :020:

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Interesting thread. It's obviously a complex question. My observation would be that the restaurants that are thriving are catering "mostly" to an expat crowd and providing a quality experience consistently. Some restaurants manage to appeal to both Tapatios and expats. Tango, Tony's, Cinqo Potrillos over the hill and the lakeside restaurants near SJC which are always packed on weekends seem to appeal to both crowds and I'm sure there are others.

Success seems to based on quality food at a decent price (not cheap just good value for the experience), good service and some owner involvement. Examples: Panino where the food is good and Lupita is there every day and makes a point of stopping at most if not all tables. Mom's, same deal, good food, decent prices, good service. Rick's Early Bird Cafe, only open for breakfast but Rick is always there and always talking to the customers. Hacienda, Toscana, Marisco's Peter, Tabarka, Tony's, Tango, to name just a few, are all good examples. Others that I have not been to like Axixic Taverna, La Taverna, Lety's, El Serape have been around for ages so they are obviously doing something right.

One that surprised me when it failed was the Creperie. I loved the place, the owner was the cook, but for some reason it just never took off. Never advertised and the ambience was pretty basic but the food was excellent. Maybe an example where the whole package just wasn't enough to keep attracting people.

The whole process is a delicate balancing act for the proprietors. If the consistency of the experience (quality, food, service, ambience) slips then the customers just fade away. The succesful restaurant owners know this and act accordingly. Price can be an issue but I have to say that I'll willingly pay a higher price for a better experience. One exeption I make is around the price of wine. I don't mind paying double the retail price of a bottle of wine when I'm buying it in a restaurant. But when I see prices two and a half, three, sometimes even three and a half times retail, I just don't go back no matter how good the food is.

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Interesting thread. It's obviously a complex question. My observation would be that the restaurants that are thriving are catering "mostly" to an expat crowd and providing a quality experience consistently. Some restaurants manage to appeal to both Tapatios and expats. Tango, Tony's, Cinqo Potrillos over the hill and the lakeside restaurants near SJC which are always packed on weekends seem to appeal to both crowds and I'm sure there are others.

Success seems to based on quality food at a decent price (not cheap just good value for the experience), good service and some owner involvement. Examples: Panino where the food is good and Lupita is there every day and makes a point of stopping at most if not all tables. Mom's, same deal, good food, decent prices, good service. Rick's Early Bird Cafe, only open for breakfast but Rick is always there and always talking to the customers. Hacienda, Toscana, Marisco's Peter, Tabarka, Tony's, Tango, to name just a few, are all good examples. Others that I have not been to like Axixic Taverna, La Taverna, Lety's, El Serape have been around for ages so they are obviously doing something right.

One that surprised me when it failed was the Creperie. I loved the place, the owner was the cook, but for some reason it just never took off. Never advertised and the ambience was pretty basic but the food was excellent. Maybe an example where the whole package just wasn't enough to keep attracting people.

The whole process is a delicate balancing act for the proprietors. If the consistency of the experience (quality, food, service, ambience) slips then the customers just fade away. The succesful restaurant owners know this and act accordingly. Price can be an issue but I have to say that I'll willingly pay a higher price for a better experience. One exeption I make is around the price of wine. I don't mind paying double the retail price of a bottle of wine when I'm buying it in a restaurant. But when I see prices two and a half, three, sometimes even three and a half times retail, I just don't go back no matter how good the food is.

We still mourn the loss of the Creperie - no savings to see them through the lean times was probably the biggest reason.

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Most Canadians and Americans here expect what they get at home for half the price. I think what they miss is what is truly Mexcican food. I did not come here for North American food, I want to experience the local cuisine. YES Jeanette, I like a Hotdog like anyone else, but this is not america.... this is Mexico. Things happen differently here.

60s in Paridise will serve a decent burger for ya (if you can wait for it) Have a chat with the lazy bones owner who does nothing but change the weekly special, OR you can try a decent dog at AMI Deli. All of these places are "wanna bes" simply trying to satisfy the GRINGO desires. Is so funny how americans love to travel to the other end of the world to find a good hamburger!!??? Stretch your culinary thoughts and think outside of your serviette.

There are some fabulous places that are native over the mountain in Guad that will razzle and dazzle your palette.

Ajijic is surviving on ExPats and trying to keep your interest. What do they know about food from US or Canada? They do it to make money and TRY to please you.... some (very few) do well. I just wish they could cook their food in their own style. BTW: much of what we eat in US and Canada is VERY similar to basic normal mexican food.

If you are looking for Al's Steak House or all Ya can eat BBQ, go back home. This is not the place to come to tantalize your palette for that carp O La. If you like fresh incrediences and have a "foodie" attitude" the local places are far better then the places trying to please you and are mostly missing the mark on the US Canadian European palette.

Eat Mexican!

ILIDS

Ilids, we can agree on this one (except for the unnecessary "crap O La" and "go back home" remarks). We travel frequently, eating at food stalls in Thailand and Malaysia, a bunch of tables set up on the beach in Malaysia and Lanzarote, and taco stands in Mexico. No, I'm not bragging - just making a point. You are not likely to find me at Subway or Wings - I agree, I can get those at home, and prefer to eat with the locals, where ever I go. BUT I'm not going to say that someone else should do what I do - to each his own. If the community wants to support the business, the business will survive. Me? I like having as many options as possible, as long as the value (which includes price) and quality are there.

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I think Bisbee really made the undercapitalization point well. My observation is that so many of these startups appear to be on a shoestring, yet it takes time to establish a restaurant reputation and clientelle, particularly in such a crowded market. I notice that a lot of these startups seems to show up in places that were previously restaurants, suggesting that much of the equipment remains and it is relatively easy to get the doors open but much less easy to keep them open.

Some like the Thirsty Turtle seem to get killed by landlords who think that just because some other guy builds a fancy shopping center next door he can jack the rents way up. You'll notice that space is still vacant. We mourn the loss of the Turtle!

Some are just lousy cooks and servers. Joes comes to mind with that comment, these guys didn't even know how to fix a decent Marguerita.

Some locations just don't work as restaurants, neither "walkable" or conveniently accessed by car or parking issues.

Can't agree with that comment that we must eat Mexican and only Mexican. If Andares Mall is any guide, I'd say the Mexicans don't agree either, at least not the affluent ones. I won't go to the new Subway very often but I will go there on occasion just for that infrequent but welcome taste of home.

Looking at all these issues and more, I'd bet the number one reason is undercapitalization.

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The landlord may, in fact, be the prime cause of restaurant closings at Lakeside. Many have closed shortly after becoming 'successful', as the landlord notes the increasing traffic and raises the rent unrealistically. Not too many 'successful' restaurants here are making huge profits for the operator. They simply support them and their family, who are also probably 'employed' at the restaurant.

Another consideration in the overcrowded restaurant market is that times are tough everywhere and the first thing to go is 'eating out'. I know we've cut way back.

Every restauranteur is also aware of the 'mixed clientele' problem at Lakeside and I'm sure that most of us are, as well; we just don't want to talk about it.

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A very good point concerning landlords raising the rents. The strip west of Ajijic where Tabarka now sits had, at one time, four eateries, including Senor Sushi. The gal that took over Sushi from David (who got into insurance and enjoyed that a lot more, financially), told me a couple of years ago that the rents were going up more than twice what they were paying. Within two months, every business had pulled out, including the not-restaurants there. Sushi stayed for a while, but as you all know moved to Plaza Bugambilias, and the Tabarka end has seen several restaurants come and go.

The landlord must be very happy: almost all the locations remain empty to this day.

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The landlord may, in fact, be the prime cause of restaurant closings at Lakeside. Many have closed shortly after becoming 'successful', as the landlord notes the increasing traffic and raises the rent unrealistically. Not too many 'successful' restaurants here are making huge profits for the operator. They simply support them and their family, who are also probably 'employed' at the restaurant.

This is exactly what happened to one of my favorite Lakeside restaurants, José's Illusion. The landlord was always notorious for raising the rent as soon as the lease ran out. Other of his renters at the same location had experienced his whims; José was smart enough to negotiate a long lease when he initially rented there. Unfortunately for all of us, the lease eventually ran out and the landlord was demanding double what José had been paying.

Big loss, IMHO.

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the lose of Jose's Illusion was a tough one for ajijic. there hasn't been another restaurant to take it's place. Jose was able to turn out an expert menu consistently for many years. it was always our go-to place for guests and we were hooked on his special salmon dish covered in pistascios with white caper sauce and garlic mashed potatoes. and don't forget, that included fresh stringbeans, pitas with olive oil/basalmic dip and a greek salad for only 120p--and it was big enough for two hungry people to share. his lamb dishes, spinatacopia,moussaka were all wonderful too. you're right, the landlord wanted to kill the golden goose, and so now we have none....

This is exactly what happened to one of my favorite Lakeside restaurants, José's Illusion. The landlord was always notorious for raising the rent as soon as the lease ran out. Other of his renters at the same location had experienced his whims; José was smart enough to negotiate a long lease when he initially rented there. Unfortunately for all of us, the lease eventually ran out and the landlord was demanding double what José had been paying.

Big loss, IMHO.

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We too enjoyed Jose's Illusion. Unfortunately we didn't discover it until just before he closed.

Given his good reputation, why didn't he move to another space? Does he have plans to reopen elsewhere in the near future?

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José told me that he was very tired. Running a restaurant is not an easy task and he did it well, in spite of the ever present pressure of a greedy landlord.

He wants to spend some time with his family, then decide what to do and where to do it.

I think he was smart enough to put something aside, so that he could take a break.

We miss an occasional meal at 'José's Illusion'

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I heard he was tired of the restaurant and wanted to move back to the US. I also heard his business had been declining. We miss Jose's Illusion a lot.

About always eating Mexican food... after 15 years of living in and traveling in Mexico I need more variety and more balance in my diet. We frequently eat at local taquerias and Mexican restaurants but it gets old after so many meals.

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