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Ajijic

Calderon Is Getting Serious

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What I like is "take-no-prisoners" attitude. Prisoners only end up beating the corrupt judicial system of freed by other narcos. The criminals do not take prisoners so why should law enforcement?

Police kill 15 in shootout as Mexico drug war escalates

REUTERS

Olga R. Rodriguez

The Associated Press

MEXICO CITY—President Felipe Calderon appealed to Mexicans to support the fight against organized crime just hours after troops killed 15 suspected gang members, part of a surge in violence that has June headed toward being the deadliest month yet in his drug war.

In a televised message to the nation Tuesday night, Calderon urged his countrymen to report criminals to authorities and help defeat the brutal drug cartels. A phone number for anonymous tips flashed on the screen as he spoke.

"This is a battle that is worth fighting because our future is at stake," Calderon said during the 10-minute address. "It's a battle that, with all Mexicans united, we will win."

Calderon's message came a day after he published an essay in national newspapers defending the crackdown on cartels, a fight that has seen more than 23,000 people killed since late 2006 when he began deploying thousands of troops and federal police to drug hot spots. Mexican officials attribute much of the bloodshed to turf battles between drug cartels, but the gangs are increasingly turning to attacks on police and prosecutors.

"To recover our security won't be an easy or quick task but it's worth continuing," Calderon said in the speech. "My government can't and won't let its guard down."

Before Calderon spoke, soldiers investigating suspicious activity came under fire from gunmen holed up in a house in the popular tourist town of Taxco in Guerrero state.

The Defence Department said no soldiers were hurt in the 40-minute shootout that left 15 gunmen dead. Twenty guns and two homemade explosives were recovered, it added.

Taxco police, who spoke on condition of anonymity for security reasons, told The Associated Press that the men killed were suspected of being tied to Edgar Valdez Villarreal, a reputed U.S.-born capo known as "La Barbie." Mexican security forces have detained several alleged Valdez henchmen recently.

Taxco is popular with foreign visitors because of its colonial architecture and more than 2,000 silver shops, but it has increasingly been the scene of cartel turf battles. Two weeks ago, authorities discovered 55 bodies in an abandoned Taxco silver mine that was being used as a dumping ground for apparent victims of drug violence.

Tuesday's battle came a day after 12 federal police officers were killed in an ambush in neighbouring Michoacan state, a stronghold of drug activity. It was unclear if the two shootouts were related.

Federal police anti-drug chief Ramon Pequeno blamed the attack on the Michoacan-based La Familia, a cartel that has become notorious for bold assaults on federal security forces.

Also Monday, gunmen killed three federal officers in the northern city of Chihuahua, and inmates at a prison in northern Sinaloa state used guns apparently smuggled inside to kill 21 prisoners in what officials said appeared to be a dispute between gangs. At least eight more inmates were later stabbed to death in apparent reprisals at the same prison.

The dozens of deaths on Monday and Tuesday followed a particularly bloody pair of weeks. Last week, gunmen killed 16 people in one day in the northern city of Ciudad Madero, and attackers burst into a drug rehab centre in Chihuahua and shot 19 men to death.

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Sadly, this is what it is going to take, massive shoot on sight of these criminals.

Go Army!

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It's only 24 months til the next election. Even if the present government were to eliminate all narcos-unlikely-there will be more to take their place when the PRI re-takes the presidency.

The root problem is the demand for drugs in the US and elsewhere. As long as there is demand there will be supply.

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I take it that there is no demand for drugs here in Mexico? From what I see one of the problems is that it is easier to make money from running drugs than trying to find a job in Mexico.

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Yes demand for drugs in US is a big issue but keep in mind as noted they are used widely in Mexico and now the narcos supply parts of Europe. Plus as I noted many times, pirating of everything possible is now valued at more than oil and drugs combined. Then there are the kidnappings, extortion, racketeering, prostitution, protection "fees" etc etc. My point yes, the US demand for drugs is huge but the many other components are even greater.

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I strongly doubt these drugs will be legalized at least in our lifetime. Are we to legalize everything people want to use and do simply because they do? Not trying to get into a discussion re: legalization. Someone can open that thread if they wish.

http://www.sarnia.com/groups/antidrug/argument/myths.html

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I don't see it happening in our lifetime in the US - no reason for it to happen. And don't see a real reason for the violence to mitigate until one cartel defeats the other - so you have three or more elements - the cartels fighting each other and the police fighting them. I don't see anything to be encouraged about. The violence was confined to the border elements -but now popping up all over the place - and the last 2 days Taxco (15), Tamaulipas (5) and Acapulco, Zitacuaro (10), Chihuahua (3), Ciudad Juarez (1)etc etc - and now schools closing in Nayarit because of expected violence.

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Yeah, I know.

But I just don't see any other way than to take the profit out of the whole enchilada. Prohibition did not/does not/will not work. Any more than 'just say no' will cure AIDS or teen pregnancy.

Mexican Trailrunner

Yes there is other ways:

1. Do what President Felipe Calderon is doing right now, trying to eradicate the Drug cartel.

2. Get the public more involved. Pay some type of reward and relocate family if they turn in the boss.

3. Mandatory DEATH sentence when Drug lord is caught.

4. Stop the money flow. Use the money the Gov recovers to fund programs like beautification of neighborhoods and education.

5. Stop the corruption.

6. Have a BIGGER military and pay them a better wage.

This is just a few things that might help stop it.

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Yes there is other ways:

1. Do what President Felipe Calderon is doing right now, trying to eradicate the Drug cartel.

2. Get the public more involved. Pay some type of reward and relocate family if they turn in the boss.

3. Mandatory DEATH sentence when Drug lord is caught.

4. Stop the money flow. Use the money the Gov recovers to fund programs like beautification of neighborhoods and education.

5. Stop the corruption.

6. Have a BIGGER military and pay them a better wage.

This is just a few things that might help stop it.

How long have you lived in Mexico?

"Get the public more involved"? Please tell me you're joking. A lot of the "public" would rather deal with the cartels than the government, police, or the army.

"Stop the corruption"? Read some of the history of Mexico just from the beginning of the 20th century until today. I don't think the magic wand effect is going to work.

"Stop the money flow. Use the money the Gov recovers to fund programs like beautification of neighborhoods and education." Good grief.

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How long have you lived in Mexico?

"Get the public more involved"? Please tell me you're joking. A lot of the "public" would rather deal with the cartels than the government, police, or the army.

"Stop the corruption"? Read some of the history of Mexico just from the beginning of the 20th century until today. I don't think the magic wand effect is going to work.

"Stop the money flow. Use the money the Gov recovers to fund programs like beautification of neighborhoods and education." Good grief.

Well it looks like I hit 50% of your approval, lets hear yours! Try thinking out of the box.

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Well it looks like I hit 50% of your approval, lets hear yours! Try thinking out of the box.

A problem is that the drug money significantly adds to Mexico's gnp. One article says the loss of drugs would reduce Mexico's economy by over 60% - that seems pretty high - so lets say 30%. Even that is mind boggling

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Well it looks like I hit 50% of your approval, lets hear yours! Try thinking out of the box.

Well, you didn't hit 50%, I was just in too much of hurry to rebut each one. :rolleyes:

It's interesting that you would make a statement like "thinking out of the box." All of your "solutions" are so inside the box that they read like a failed movie script that has been passed from studio to studio for the last 50 years. "More force!" "More money!", "More jail time!", "More this!", "More that!" These are the trite and useless slogans politicians use to create the illusion that something is being done about the problem.

The truth is that there is no incentive to solve the problem, and a lot of incentives to keep the status quo. There's no political capital on either side of the border for different approaches. There's too much entrenched corruption and potential profit in both countries. If you think Calderón took on some (and I stress the word some) of the cartels because he felt he was dealing from the moral high ground, and not because of political pressure from the Bush and Obama governments, billions of dollars, and a short memory when it comes to dealing with the U.S. and it's "incursions", and you think agencies created to solve "problems" are going to willingly let themselves be eradicated due to coherent policies, then you best start runnin' to catch that turnip truck.

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Right on, willieboy.

Taking it a step further. . .there is EVERY incentive for the cartels to operate with FARC, Venezuela, and Al Qaeda. After all, the cartels have MASTERED transporting anything over the Mexican/US border, and safely into the United States.

Borders would have to be sealed immediately. Ain't gonna happen.

Legalize drugs immediately. Ain't gonna happen.

I think the stats are more like 60% of the MX economy, that's what I've read too. What would happen if that stopped overnight?

There isn't an answer. We best get used to it.

Mexican Trailrunner

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Right on, willieboy.

Taking it a step further. . .there is EVERY incentive for the cartels to operate with FARC, Venezuela, and Al Qaeda. After all, the cartels have MASTERED transporting anything over the Mexican/US border, and safely into the United States.

Borders would have to be sealed immediately. Ain't gonna happen.

Legalize drugs immediately. Ain't gonna happen.

I think the stats are more like 60% of the MX economy, that's what I've read too. What would happen if that stopped overnight?

There isn't an answer. We best get used to it.

Mexican Trailrunner

Agree with you and WillieBoy - but the cartels are just distributors, right? This is from Wikipedia - According to the National Drug Intelligence Center, Mexican cartels are the predominant smugglers and wholesale distributors of South American cocaine and Mexico-produced cannabis, methamphetamine and heroin.

So why isn't Calderon going after the producers? If he is, it doesn't seem to be getting much press. Every once in awhile they seem to find a marijuana farm or a meth lab - but as long as people are producing product, distributors will find a way to sell.

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Legalize the street drugs that everyone wants. Drugs are not a bad thing; people just think they are. Okay, look: junkies steal and harass to support their expensive habit, and they are a drain on society's coffers, right (how much of a drain compared to the ongoing wars, the Wall Street ripoffs, the lobbying payments to politicians...)? Easily available legalized drugs take that problem away. But they are going to kill themselves, you say, if the drugs are cheap and too easy to get? Okay, problem number two solved.

The real problem drugs are the prescription-available. These cause untold unrest among abusers, but they are simple to get, well-taxed, and provide lots of jobs. Truly, what's the difference, except in the way they are managed?

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Maybe approaching the drug problem a different way would be more reasonable to the general population. That 'outside the box' idea.

Determine legal standards for drug effectiveness/potency on a scale of 1 to 12.

Legalize marijuana, meth, cocaine and heroin for sale to anyone at scale levels 1, 2 and 3 - if you can pay for it you can have it and its sold like liquor and cigarettes thru licensed vendors.

Sale of scale levels 4, 5 & 6 require a specific prescription from a specialized medical person - if you can pay for it you can have it but its only sold by specific approved vendors who are required to track your purchases.

Up to this point you are considered a recreational user.

Scale levels 7, 8, 9 require a more specific prescription from a specialized medical person and are dispensed from one specific regional facility. In order to receive drugs at this level you must publically register your usage. You must participate in lifestyle rehab at least 6 months out of 24 months and are entitled to one 6 month inpatient rehab. The cost of drugs at this level is subsidized. You have to rehab your usage level down to recreational user and be able to support your habit within 5 years of first entering this level otherwise youa re considered unsalvagable.

Scale levels 10, 11 & 12 are considered a hard core user, these drugs are subsidized, you must register, you must live in specific subsidized housing, prescriptions are available only from a specific regional medical facility. No rehab is required but is available if you choose. However, you are unemployable and if you spend 5 years in this category without reducing your usage you forfeit all social program benefits and are on your own.

It would create a bureacracy and a lot of jobs.

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Maybe approaching the drug problem a different way would be more reasonable to the general population. That 'outside the box' idea.

Determine legal standards for drug effectiveness/potency on a scale of 1 to 12.

Legalize marijuana, meth, cocaine and heroin for sale to anyone at scale levels 1, 2 and 3 - if you can pay for it you can have it and its sold like liquor and cigarettes thru licensed vendors.

Sale of scale levels 4, 5 & 6 require a specific prescription from a specialized medical person - if you can pay for it you can have it but its only sold by specific approved vendors who are required to track your purchases.

Up to this point you are considered a recreational user.

Scale levels 7, 8, 9 require a more specific prescription from a specialized medical person and are dispensed from one specific regional facility. In order to receive drugs at this level you must publically register your usage. You must participate in lifestyle rehab at least 6 months out of 24 months and are entitled to one 6 month inpatient rehab. The cost of drugs at this level is subsidized. You have to rehab your usage level down to recreational user and be able to support your habit within 5 years of first entering this level otherwise youa re considered unsalvagable.

Scale levels 10, 11 & 12 are considered a hard core user, these drugs are subsidized, you must register, you must live in specific subsidized housing, prescriptions are available only from a specific regional medical facility. No rehab is required but is available if you choose. However, you are unemployable and if you spend 5 years in this category without reducing your usage you forfeit all social program benefits and are on your own.

It would create a bureacracy and a lot of jobs.

Interesting idea-make a bureaucratic nightmare out of it and maybe it will go away. I don't think so.

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Interesting idea-make a bureaucratic nightmare out of it and maybe it will go away. I don't think so.

Well, unfortuantely we are going to have to create some jobs, and those will unfortuantely be service jobs, and we have to decriminalize some drugs at the same time and figure out how poeople can exist in a world with readily available mind-altering substances and encourage some degree of moderation. The fellow poster up above asked for outside the box, this is mine.

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Well, unfortuantely we are going to have to create some jobs, and those will unfortuantely be service jobs, and we have to decriminalize some drugs at the same time and figure out how poeople can exist in a world with readily available mind-altering substances and encourage some degree of moderation. The fellow poster up above asked for outside the box, this is mine.

You certainly have the right to make an outside-the-box proposal,as I have the right to react to it.

Your proposal is extremely complicated and won't work,even if it is implemented which it won't be.

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You certainly have the right to make an outside-the-box proposal,as I have the right to react to it.

Your proposal is extremely complicated and won't work,even if it is implemented which it won't be.

I agree that it won't work - at the same time I have to say it is a great idea. Too bad governments are not capable of implementing anything thoughtful and complicated.

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I agree that it won't work - at the same time I have to say it is a great idea. Too bad governments are not capable of implementing anything thoughtful and complicated.

Here's my outside-the-box idea,which can work and involves no new technology: Do away with coins and paper bills larger than say,50 pesos or 5 US dollars. Everyone would need to use bank debit cards for all transactions except the very small things like buying a cup of coffee or a newspaper. 25 years ago we lived in Europe and people were using bank debit cards for even a 1 dollar toll even then.

If everyone buying drugs or selling them had to do it via a traceable financial transaction the risks of doing drugs would increase substantially. A drug dealer would be unlikely to handle 150 million dollars in the form of 10 peso coins.

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How long have you lived in Mexico?

"Get the public more involved"? Please tell me you're joking. A lot of the "public" would rather deal with the cartels than the government, police, or the army.

"Stop the corruption"? Read some of the history of Mexico just from the beginning of the 20th century until today. I don't think the magic wand effect is going to work.

"Stop the money flow. Use the money the Gov recovers to fund programs like beautification of neighborhoods and education." Good grief.

Well Willie boy I guess you made a statement that proved you wrong. You will start to see more of this when the honest Mexicans start to lose their family's

Mexican communities fighting back

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