Hats off to the Mexican medical system

[jimmiller]

This morning we went to the Chapalita Hospital for a prostate blood test. It was just the annual test and no doctor needed to order the test. We weren't sure what time they opened,so went at 7:15 a.m. When we arrrived at the lab the sign said they open at 8 a.m. So we sat to wait. In fact they opened 30 minutes early,so we walked right in.

We were done in 3 minutes,and left. The results will be available this afternoon.

For this we paid a grand total of 419 pesos, PLUS free parking.

I don't know if 419 pesos is more expensive than Lakeside,but I was thinking of a similar test several years ago in New York. First, no tests may be done without having a doctor order it,which means time, money ,and hassle. And the tests cost several times more and take much longer. AND the parking costs a bloody fortune. Last time, the lab or doctor lost the test results so we had to do it over again-free but still a royal pain in the neck.

And all this was before Obamacare was passed. I hate to think of any poor gringo who has to get medical care in the US.

[Ajijic]

Jim thanks for sharing. There are many positives here. This is not to be negative but imagine a Mexican or a Canadian trying to live in the US 12 months a year and also the medical costs etc. First, unless one has a work visa which is hard to get or hundreds of thousands to invest etc not even possible to live in the US legally. We are damn lucky to be allowed to live here, warts and all.

[jimmiller]

Jim thanks for sharing. There are many positives here. This is not to be negative but imagine a Mexican or a Canadian trying to live in the US 12 months a year and also the medical costs etc. First, unless one has a work visa which is hard to get or hundreds of thousands to invest etc not even possible to live in the US legally. We are damn lucky to be allowed to live here, warts and all.

No visa is necessary in either US or Mexico to get medical treatment. In Mexico one just pays. In the US one can pay or can go to (horrors) a public hospital or can be treated under Medicaid.

[Mainecoons]

The medical system here proves that freedom is the right route. But I got my PSA done at the lab next to the Casino for 340 pesos. Same fast service and the nurse who drew the blood was so skilled I literally felt nothing more than a tiny pin prick.

I hope they don't follow through with this plan to shackle medications like they are in the U.S. The problem of over prescribing antibiotics is major there, so much for restricting these to prescriptions.

[Jim H]

I feel the MX health system rules. I keep telling everyone that the U.S. needs to reduce the paperwork, wait times, and the need to see a doc. for even simple blood work. I had a kidney stone in U.S. and waited 4 or 5 hours just to get to another waiting room. Left the hospital a few hours later with a 5,000.00 dlr hospital bill. Was hospitalized in Guad. a year ago for internal bleeding and had far, far better care. Within minutes of arriving I was being scoped, and was resting in a hospital bed shortly after. 2 days in the hospital ran me 10,000 pesos,but had I gone to a different hospital, the price would of been even lower. Nothing like going to the doc. in the U.S. and waiting 3 hours in the lobby.

[jimmiller]

I feel the MX health system rules. I keep telling everyone that the U.S. needs to reduce the paperwork, wait times, and the need to see a doc. for even simple blood work. I had a kidney stone in U.S. and waited 4 or 5 hours just to get to another waiting room. Left the hospital a few hours later with a 5,000.00 dlr hospital bill. Was hospitalized in Guad. a year ago for internal bleeding and had far, far better care. Within minutes of arriving I was being scoped, and was resting in a hospital bed shortly after. 2 days in the hospital ran me 10,000 pesos,but had I gone to a different hospital, the price would of been even lower. Nothing like going to the doc. in the U.S. and waiting 3 hours in the lobby.

I think everyone living in the US has at least one disaster story to tell. They seem to be the rule rather than the exception.

My US friends refuse to believe what I tell them about the medical system here in Mexico. My spouse last year was diagnosed by a Guad doc as needing a growth removed from inside the nose,which was blocking the air flow and causing heart arythmia. That was a Friday. The procedure was done at a private hospital on Monday. The total cost including all hospital fees, anesthetic, several follow-up vistis, was slightly more than US 1 thousand.

The US system is a disaster,and getting worse every day. The people living there are just too proud to admit it. Americans usually refuse to consider that other countries might do something better.

[Doolittle]

The medical system here proves that freedom is the right route. But I got my PSA done at the lab next to the Casino for 340 pesos. Same fast service and the nurse who drew the blood was so skilled I literally felt nothing more than a tiny pin prick.

I hope they don't follow through with this plan to shackle medications like they are in the U.S. The problem of over prescribing antibiotics is major there, so much for restricting these to prescriptions.

The only thing that's changing here is that they're going to start enforcing existing laws concerning antibiotics and some other drugs.

[thevalerieleigh]

Viva, Viva Mexico! I am so grateful every day that we live in such a beautiful and welcoming country. I love my adopted home!

Valerie

[the walkers]

we're very sad that mexico has chosen to go this route with restricting the public's access to pharmacuetical drugs. as you noted, it is the physicians prescribing of antibiotics that supposedly triggered the implimentation of this policy.in the usa we must pay a doctor to get drugs we need even if we know what we want. the doctors on the other hand are directed by the ama and big pharm as to what they can prescrib, which isn't always in our favor. and doctors are proscribed by those same forces from suggesting alternative methods/herbs/treatments that are cost effective. no doubt about it, we need to take control of our own health cuz others don't have our best interests in mind....

The medical system here proves that freedom is the right route. But I got my PSA done at the lab next to the Casino for 340 pesos. Same fast service and the nurse who drew the blood was so skilled I literally felt nothing more than a tiny pin prick.

I hope they don't follow through with this plan to shackle medications like they are in the U.S. The problem of over prescribing antibiotics is major there, so much for restricting these to prescriptions.

[Doolittle]

we're very sad that mexico has chosen to go this route with restricting the public's access to pharmacuetical drugs. as you noted, it is the physicians prescribing of antibiotics that supposedly triggered the implimentation of this policy.in the usa we must pay a doctor to get drugs we need even if we know what we want. the doctors on the other hand are directed by the ama and big pharm as to what they can prescrib, which isn't always in our favor. and doctors are proscribed by those same forces from suggesting alternative methods/herbs/treatments that are cost effective. no doubt about it, we need to take control of our own health cuz others don't have our best interests in mind....

I believe that Mexico is doing a good thing by enforcing the already existing law. You may know what drug you want and me too. We are educated and we have computers, the web and google. Most Mexicans are not so well equipped to understand what they're taking. Farmacias have Drs. on duty for consultation for little or no fee to help those who need it.

[kbleitch]

Our first (AND it was a big one) experience with medical care in the Lakeside / Guadalajara area:

While on vacation in Ajijic in March, my husband had his first ever heart event at age 52, a heart attack caused by 100% occlusion of the right artery.

We both, as well as our family doctor here in the States, believe he received as quick or even quicker intervention in Mexico than he would have here in the States. It happened on a Monday, one of the days that the cardiologist Dr. Flores Covarrubias is at the Ajijic Clinic. They stabilized him at the clinic and Cruz Roja took him to Guadalajara. Dr. Flores was phenomenal; you'd never get the kind of care he provided here in the States. They took my husband to Hospital del Carmen and placed a medicated stent, the same exact model which would have been placed had we been at home in the States. NOB he would have been out of the hospital in 2-4 days max; Dr. Flores kept him hospitalized for 10 days to assure that he would be in optimal condition before leaving the hospital. For anyone from NOB reading this post, please note that when his cardiologist gave us his business card, it had not only his office contact information, but also included his home and cell phone numbers.

For anyone interested in the price of this event....

Dr. Flores' charge for his services and those of the other docs in the cath lab (heart surgeon and anesthesiologist on standby, another cardiologist), included him seeing my husband 3-4 times per day for ten days, as well as a follow up mini-stress test at the Ajijic Clinic four days after hospital dismissal: 80,000 pesos (USD 6,700)

Hospital bill - two days in ICU, four days in intermediate care unit and four days in a regular room, all labs, EKGs, two echocardiograms, two Holter monitor studies, all meds, three chest x-rays, cath lab, etc.: 196,130 pesos (USD 16,350 of which USD 3,600 was the actual medicated stent).

I'm most certain that the cost of this event would have approached USD 100,000 here NOB. And....they would NEVER keep you in the hospital for ten days. Anecdotally, a friend of mine had an echocardiogram done here in Indiana a few months ago at a cost of USD 1,700; I just checked the Del Carmen hospital bill and it was 3,600 pesos (USD 300).

GOOD NEWS out of this: we already have our cardiologist for when we move down in another one and a half to two years!!! Any of our potential concerns about the quality of medical care that we will have available to us when we move to Ajijic have become absolute non-issues. And what an appropriate time to be leaving behind the mess that Obama-care will be!

[senor vivo]

Interesting - or you can be fortunate enough to be a resident of Canada, that hotbed of rampant socialism.

My husband had a severe angina attack at the age of 54,was hospitalised, and underwent an EKG and an angioplasty which determined that he required by bypass surgery. It was considered urgent,and he had a quintuple bypass 4 days later in one of Ontario's major teaching hospitals. This was proceeded by counselling for us both to prepare us for the procedure,and information sessions. After the surgery, he spent one day in intensive care,and four days in the cardiac ward [ six patients under the care of three nursing staff] Follow up included four monthly check ups with the cardiologist,a full ultrasound of the heart and blood work.

So what did it cost - no idea, never saw a bill, and never will for any subsequent check ups.

Tell me again why taxpayer funded medical care for a country's citizens is such a scary,awful thing?

[osuespirit]

I fell and broke my wrist four months after we moved to Mexico. Two months before we moved, I had a knee replacement. So I could easily compare and I vowed I would never have surgery again in the US. Doctors here actually act like they care what happens to you. Now I am going through IMSS for a hip replacement and we have been very happy with the way we have been treated. None of the"horror" stories we have heard have materialized. I will let you know the final verdict when it is over.

[Mainecoons]

Forty three percent of Canadian taxes go for the public health care scheme. That's hardly "free." If one needs a hip or knee replacement, 6 month waits are common.

I have friends in the U.K. whose wife needed stents so badly she was bed ridden. Took 2 months to get them. She darn near died.

Mexico has it right, minimal government meddling in health care. This of course means that caveat emptor is very much in play. Now they need to improve the economy here so that more folks can afford the very reasonable cost of health care here.

[Ajijic]

I agree totally with Senior Vivo. I could tell you many similar and positive stories from my sister, to me to friends etc. Anyone running for elected office who tries to reduce the present system in Canada will NOT get elected. So knock it if one wants but Canadians have a very positive attitude about their healthcare.

The US spends far more per capita on healthcare than any other country in the world. I have worked in a US hospital and why do Americans think they do not pay for millions of people in the US with no healthcare? In 2003 where I worked the hospital got $3,000,000 from the county in New Mexico to pay for the shortfalls created by having to pay for those who could not. Otherwise this chain of 6 non-profit hospitals could not survive and all 6 received similar support from their counties. This is repeated throughout the US. So when one came into the county where I worked every time one bought anything a portion of the sales tax went to the hospital along with a portion of property and business taxes. This is reality and a fact of life. So forget your "socialism" labels and accept billions are paid for healthcare in the US by taxpayers creating a system with billions in profits often at taxpayers expense and an estimated 100,000 deaths do to error.

And if one thinks it destroys a country financially well Canada has one of the best economies in the world right now, with homes getting multiple offers, the deficit as % of GDP is relatively low and the C$ at par. It is a perfect system no but no Canadian would allow it to be diminished. The other comments are simply FIX news rhetoric lmao.

And ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_health_care_systems_in_Canada_and_the_United_States

And ...

The healthcare systems in the United States, Canada, and Great Britain provide interesting comparisons to one another, especially since the U.S. system is considered private and Canada and Great Britain each have national health systems that supply universal coverage. National health systems are theoretically designed to provide accessible, affordable care for all segments of the population, but critics of such systems often question the quality of that care. Conversely, critics of the U.S. system often point to the fact that affordable, high-quality healthcare is not equally available to all who need it.

How do Americans, Canadians, and Britons compare in their views of the availability and quality of healthcare in their respective countries? In surveys conducted in January* and February 2003**, Gallup asked residents of these three nations identical questions regarding the availability of affordable healthcare and the quality of medical care.

The Availability of Affordable Healthcare

One-fourth of American respondents are either "very" or "somewhat" satisfied with "the availability of affordable healthcare in the nation," (6% very satisfied and 19% somewhat satisfied). This level of satisfaction is significantly lower than in Canada, where 57% are satisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, including 16% who are very satisfied. Roughly 4 in 10 Britons are satisfied (43%), but only 7% say they are very satisfied (similar to the percentage very satisfied in the United States).

Looking at the other side of the coin, 44% of Americans are very dissatisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, and nearly three-fourths (72%) are either somewhat or very dissatisfied. The 44% in the United States who are very dissatisfied with healthcare availability is significantly higher than corresponding figures in either Canada (17%) or Great Britain (25%).

[willieboy]

Mexico has it right, minimal government meddling in health care. This of course means that caveat emptor is very much in play. Now they need to improve the economy here so that more folks can afford the very reasonable cost of health care here.

It's scary to think that you believe in the nonsense you spout on this board. Why don't you learn something about Mexican health care before you start pontificating. About 3 million Mexicans use the private health care system in Mexico. That leaves about 100,000,000 that use some sort of subsidized health care run by government agencies, whether it be Federal or State.

"Minimal government meddling". "Mexico proves that freedom is the right route".

It boggles the mind.

[jimmiller]

It's scary to think that you believe in the nonsense you spout on this board. Why don't you learn something about Mexican health care before you start pontificating. About 3 million Mexicans use the private health care system in Mexico. That leaves about 100,000,000 that use some sort of subsidized health care run by government agencies, whether it be Federal or State.

"Minimal government meddling". "Mexico proves that freedom is the right route".

It boggles the mind.

Everyone has a choice in Mexico. Most people who qualify will choose IMSS and ISSTE because they are essentially free to use. Those who can afford a private alternative often use it even though they're eligible for one of the public programs. If the economy were in better shape more people would use the private alternative.

Providers also have a choice. Most choose to maximize the amount of time they work in the private sector because they earn more. They usually supplement thier private practice with time in the public sector.

The original comment was correct, freedom is the right route. Too bad everyone can't afford to take it,but one day maybe they will

[willieboy]

Everyone has a choice in Mexico. Most people choose IMSS and ISSTE because it's essentially free to use. Those who can afford a private alternative often use it. If the economy were in better shape more people would use the private alternative.

Of course they would. They would also buy nicer cars, live in bigger houses and send their kids to private schools. And if pigs could fly etc.....

But the FACTS are that almost everyone in Mexico receives health care from govt. run programs, and to say that the Mexican government doesn't "meddle" in health-care here in Mexico is just flat-out laughable.

[Doolittle]

Medical students in Mexico don't accumulate huge debt to go to school. New docs are required to do community service, two years I belive, or donate 20% of their time to Cruz Roja. The Mexican Government is involved in health care in a BIG way and in a good way. They created a national health care system and pretty much stay out of the way.

[Ajijic]

What we as expats experience with healthcare is very good but millions of Mexicans have no healthcare ... zip, nada, zero. Some do through IMSS but that is only if the have Social Security through an employer or they buy it. FYI Social security when paid by employer includes INFONAVIT housing assistance for buyers, retirement pension and IMSS. That is why so many want to work at say WalMart etc.

When a person with IMSS goes to local clinics they often wait in long lines and when for example a test is done such as a pap smear it takes weeks for the results and they often get lost. So what we as expats experience is not the norm. We have an emergency and by doing so bypass the clinics and straight to a hospital. For us it is cheap but to many Mexicans unaffordable.

We took a 90 year old woman to a hospital with heart failure. Like most she had no healthcare but learned a huge lesson. At the hospital they have an office for the destitute and they ask about income and where she lived etc and then placed her on a social services program for the poor and agreed to pay for her healthcare and that of her family for a year. Unfortunately a few weeks later she died.

At a local business where I have an indirect connection they had an employee who worked part-time and no healthcare. She needed surgery but no money. Again I encouraged she be taken to hospital to meet with the social service staff and she was covered for her surgery. Just like in the US and Canada ultimately the taxpayer paid.

In summary millions here have no healthcare, 40% of population live below poverty line and what they experience for healthcare is way less than we do who bypass the clinics etc. The government is totally involved in the administering of Mexican healthcare.

On a side note, unfortunately most expats have little clue as to the real Mexico and the life the poor in Mexico live. That is not a negative towards expats but reality as their involvement with government, business, poor Mexicans etc is superficial by nature of living in a community with so many foreigners, not owning a business, not having children in public schools etc. Unless you have a Mexican partner or work in a Mexican business etc you simply have little clue.

My partner is Mexican and a 5 year old daughter so I am lucky to see another side through them and her family. Before she wokred and had IMSS she would go to clinics in Chapala and Ajijic and pay cash. She had no healthcare! Many Mexicans have no healthcare. A local example at least was the man with open sores on his lower leg in Chapala with a handout sitting on the street. If he had healthcare he surely would have seeked it. If nothing else ask house maids and gardeners about the "free" healthcare they have.

[jimmiller]

Every Mexican can receive health care. For those who seek free care,they must demonstrate their inability to pay. They are then treated at the Hospital Civil.

You may be an expat but we are mostly Mexican with an extended family in this area,numbering in excess of 300 people depending who is included. Among that group are two non-Mexicans.. They are people of all ages and a wide range of economic status. Several are retired, several are unemployed. But all receive medical care.

Our cleaning lady recently delivered her fifth child. She is so busy with the kids and her work that she has never found time to bet married. All the children were delivered at the Hospital Civil at no cost to her. She has also had two surgeries there,also gratis.

[Jeannie]

Forty three percent of Canadian taxes go for the public health care scheme. That's hardly "free." If one needs a hip or knee replacement, 6 month waits are common.

I have friends in the U.K. whose wife needed stents so badly she was bed ridden. Took 2 months to get them. She darn near died.

Mexico has it right, minimal government meddling in health care. This of course means that caveat emptor is very much in play. Now they need to improve the economy here so that more folks can afford the very reasonable cost of health care here.

The highest federal income tax rate in Canada is 29% (for persons with annual taxable income over $120,887), and the highest provincial income tax rate in British Columbia is 14.7% (for those with annual taxable incomes over over $95,909).

Now it may be that Canada spends that % of tax revenues on health care, but Canadians also pay premiums in the $40 per month per person range. In the Province of Alberta there is no premium at all. Alberta being one of the richer provinces provides it free to their residents.

Now if I was to take your premise that we're paying this horrendous amount of money for health care through our taxes, then you'd think the country would be nearly broke. But we're not.

In fact Canada is financially in far better shape than the US.

As of March 2010

Canada's annual budget deficit is "only" 3.5% of gross domestic product, versus 9.9% for the United States

Currently Canada's 33 million people are worth about $178,000 apiece, versus the average US$177,000 net worth of Americans, and Americans have no universal health care.

In a recent poll, it was found that only 16 per cent of those questioned support reduced spending on health care because of the deficit.

WAIT TIMES

Critics should be reminded that the American system is not exactly instant-on, either. When I lived in California, I had excellent insurance, and got my care through one of the best university-based systems in the nation. Yet I routinely had to wait anywhere from six to twelve weeks to get in to see a specialist. Non-emergency surgical waits could be anywhere from four weeks to four months.

Wait times in Canada will vary from Province to Province as each Province runs their own health care system.

My mother need knee replacements and waited a grand total of 4 weeks to go through all the tests, talk with specialist and then have the surgery. Then spent a month in rehab (fully paid for by OHIP).

When I needed gall bladder surgery they scheduled it for 3 weeks after my final diagnosis. In the interim I became sick and was hospitalized immediately and the surgery performed the next day. I could go on with many family experiences and they all would be positive.

Our banking system in Canada is far stronger and more regulated than the US and we're doing fine. Your banks are not. Our economy is doing very well compared to the US and as John says, our housing market is booming. We don't have bubbles in the housing market in Canada because of the way our mortgages are structured. It will in time flatten out but it won't drop.

I honestly feel sorry that Americans don't understand the value of universal health care. Not socialized health care, but universal. There is a difference. I don't know how an American family copes with health care bills and being rejected for insurance. Something is very wrong with your system.

[moderator-2]

Getting too political and off topic here. Topic closed.